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On October 23 2011 01:09 mordk wrote:
I think the replicant might be a bit too strong in certain scenarios, its probably gonna be key in:
1-1-1 defense: It effectively nullifies 1-1-1 as a viable build; replicate a siege tank to control the area, or replicate a raven then HSM the marines.
Late game caster battles: The replicant counters ghosts if well played, and there's something else that hasn't been considered. The replicant is effectively a khaydarin amulet.
I could write up a few more situations in which it can really be an amazing unit, maybe too amazing.
Because of how expensive the Replicant is and the tech path to get there, it's unlikely to be out in time to defend against 1/1/1 while you're still on 1 base. Except maybe if you make cuts every to get a replicant ASAP, and even then the rest of your army will suck so bad it won't be able to hold off the 1/1/1.
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What does the oracle have? If you have 1-4 oracles flying into the terran base and the terran has his units 10 seconds away the damage output is almost given. And no kind of micro can really change that.
Thats not true though. The faster Terran reacts to destroy the entombment, the less econ damage they'll take. And the faster they react to the Oracle itself, the better chance of picking it off--which unlike killing a basically-disposable Hellion, killing an Oracle is a massive blow to the Protoss. And by the same token, the Oracle is so flimsy, yet so quick, that it is very much about picking the exact perfect time and place to get in and get out--which is contrasted to Hellions, where losing them is a given, but the question is how much damage you'll do. Here, the skill differentiator is much more about whether the Oracle comes through it alive, because Oracles aren't disposable, they are super pricey. The trick for Toss is to be constantly getting in at the right times to shut down mineral lines and key tech, without losing a super expensive unit that dies in only a few shots, and the trick for the defending player is to try to take out that Oracle really quickly and thereby deal 200/200 worth of damage to the Toss.
And every Oracle costs a shitload of gas, so if your opponent has 4 Oracles...just go kill him because he's not gonna have an army.
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On October 23 2011 01:08 EscPlan9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:04 blahblahblahwhatever wrote:
Also I'd like to say that the hydra speed upgrade is completely unnecessary. The logic behind making them slow as piss off creep in the first place was:
-Zerg players would have to spread their creep like crazy.
-They're gonna need lots and lots of queens for that.
-Sooner or later they were supposed to realize that the more queens you got in the early game the more likely you were to fend off a 2 rax/bunker rush, banshee/hellion rush, cannon wall in, 4 gate, phoenix rush, 6 pool, etc.
Basically slow hydras were there to lead you to water and make you drink. But leave it to zerg players to reduce a godsent unit (the queen) into a cog in their relentless drone making machine. Anybody who claims that tvz or anything else is imba was not actually playing zerg, he was playing drones. Some people have a drone fetish that can't be cured, no matter how many patches or units you give them. They love drones more than they love winning games.
The Blizzard guy in those videos didn't shave his head, he pulled his hair out.
Might as well make all Zerg units extremely slow off creep then? You're basically saying Blizzard made the unit terrible off creep to force Zergs to creep spread more. If they really want Zergs to creep spread more, why just limit it to speed? That doesn't seem to be a noticeable enough way for Zergs to want to creep spread more than they already do. How about some ridiculous mechanics like Zerg units do not regenerate life and take 2x damage while off creep? lol
That's not a bad idea. The regeneration bit not the double damage bit.
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so we have to have seen the unit for replicant to be able to transform correct?
doesnt have to be in line of sight, it just has to have been seen at one point in the game?
cause if i gotta bring replicants with my army, then like micro that too that's gonna be gay.
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On October 23 2011 01:11 YoiChiBow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:09 mordk wrote:
I think the replicant might be a bit too strong in certain scenarios, its probably gonna be key in:
1-1-1 defense: It effectively nullifies 1-1-1 as a viable build; replicate a siege tank to control the area, or replicate a raven then HSM the marines.
Late game caster battles: The replicant counters ghosts if well played, and there's something else that hasn't been considered. The replicant is effectively a khaydarin amulet.
I could write up a few more situations in which it can really be an amazing unit, maybe too amazing. The high cost of the replicant (being 400/400 and 4 supply cost) seems very unfeasible with stopping the 1-1-1. This is a real time strategy and the biggest factor in dealing with the 1-1-1 is time because the fact that it comes so early.
the replicant is 200/200 and turns into a 3 supply siege tank and this is NOT A BAD DEAL at all for toss. the replicant will essentially make it so terran can NEVER go tanks against toss, because the moment terran gets 1 tank the toss will replicate a few tanks for himself and now the terran must fight against tanks+collossi
the replicant will kill the 1-1-1 strategy
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On October 23 2011 01:12 EscPlan9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:09 mordk wrote:
I think the replicant might be a bit too strong in certain scenarios, its probably gonna be key in:
1-1-1 defense: It effectively nullifies 1-1-1 as a viable build; replicate a siege tank to control the area, or replicate a raven then HSM the marines.
Late game caster battles: The replicant counters ghosts if well played, and there's something else that hasn't been considered. The replicant is effectively a khaydarin amulet.
I could write up a few more situations in which it can really be an amazing unit, maybe too amazing. Because of how expensive the Replicant is and the tech path to get there, it's unlikely to be out in time to defend against 1/1/1 while you're still on 1 base. Except maybe if you make cuts every to get a replicant ASAP, and even then the rest of your army will suck so bad it won't be able to hold off the 1/1/1.
Even if you cut probes and rush to replicant I doubt one "replicated" siege tank is going to change the tide of battle. That's like rushing to colossus vs the 1/1/1 and it just being easily target fired down by tanks. And/or just getting siege tank contained on ur ramp.
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On October 23 2011 01:13 roymarthyup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:11 YoiChiBow wrote:On October 23 2011 01:09 mordk wrote:
I think the replicant might be a bit too strong in certain scenarios, its probably gonna be key in:
1-1-1 defense: It effectively nullifies 1-1-1 as a viable build; replicate a siege tank to control the area, or replicate a raven then HSM the marines.
Late game caster battles: The replicant counters ghosts if well played, and there's something else that hasn't been considered. The replicant is effectively a khaydarin amulet.
I could write up a few more situations in which it can really be an amazing unit, maybe too amazing. The high cost of the replicant (being 400/400 and 4 supply cost) seems very unfeasible with stopping the 1-1-1. This is a real time strategy and the biggest factor in dealing with the 1-1-1 is time because the fact that it comes so early. the replicant is 200/200 and turns into a 3 supply siege tank and this is NOT A BAD DEAL at all for toss. the replicant will essentially make it so terran can NEVER go tanks against toss, because the moment terran gets 1 tank the toss will replicate a few tanks for himself and now the terran must fight against tanks+collossi the replicant will kill the 1-1-1 strategy
I really doubt you can get out a colossus and a replicant by the X minute mark.
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On October 23 2011 01:09 ePBuckets wrote:
whilst i like the theory of the oracle (ie. harass unit thats a spell caster that doesnt kill units), its total horse shit cause every other fk'n harass unit KILLS WORKERS.
all we wanted was a harass unit or something to micro in our warp prisms...
replicant, they even said it was costly 200/200, how much use is that REALLY gonna have though.
i feel like its just more micro intensive (when we steal spellcasters ie. viper to pull back our units T.T)
edit: every replicant scenario is just a "cute" play, that we could have dealt with another way. i don't think replicant is healthy for the game (ie why play toss if we gotta use other races units lols)
tempest is bad ass, i wish they left carrier though so we can have a choice of one or the other.
carriers vs mech, tempest vs muta.
i really dislike the oracle, i'm on the fence about the replicant, and i like the tempest.
im underwhelmed, i feel like we didnt get what we wanted.
also viper pull is going to be so fucking ridiculous, buff feedback range NAOOOOO
Replicant is amazing.
Make 2 full mana HT's without going HT tech. Make a couple ghosts to 'cloak and head in and emp' the terran ball to kill its medivacks/ghosts energy. People aren't thinking right. Replicant a tank to defend early expands vs bio play. Replicant a raven for worker harrass and pdd in your army. Replicant 2 banshees for some surprise harrass.
TLDR--We didn't get the best units, but we got units that have a higher skill cap imo.
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On October 23 2011 00:59 Deckkie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 00:53 Jakkerr wrote:On October 23 2011 00:39 Deckkie wrote:On October 23 2011 00:36 27power wrote:
ok i cant seem to find this anywhere. can a replicant copy an scv so u can build CC's instead of nexi and use mules? Yes, They can build a CC then a Supply depot, then a Rax and then morph the CC into a OC and drop mules. The more I think about the Replicant the more I hate it. The unit description should be: ''Sorry Protoss players, we couldn't fix it, now you can build Terran and Zerg bases, GL HF'' It makes no sense at all. You do realize it is totally unreasonable to invest in a second tech tree? But on first glance it does feel a little like they gave Protoss every caster unit in the game.\ edit: invest not infest
When protoss gets to the late game it is completely feasible to go down another tech tree. Its literally one more building after you get the Twilight Council to have either HTs or DTs.
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I watched the videos and I find their reasoning really peculiar in a lot of places.
The Thor 'caters' to that group of players that want the super unit?
They seem to think Terran don't have enough units that counter Armoured units (Marauders, Tanks, Banshees and Marines, anyone?) so they want the Warhound to be better than the Thor at it (more mobile than the Thor makes in infinitely better)?
Protoss have trouble with massed Mutalisks and they don't know what to build? Did Psi Storm and Archons get removed without me noticing?
Protoss are missing early-game harassment options, so they give us a harassment unit at the same tech position as the Void Ray?
The reasoning is just a little off in places.
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On October 23 2011 01:04 blahblahblahwhatever wrote:
Also I'd like to say that the hydra speed upgrade is completely unnecessary. The logic behind making them slow as piss off creep in the first place was:
-Zerg players would have to spread their creep like crazy.
-They're gonna need lots and lots of queens for that.
-Sooner or later they were supposed to realize that the more queens you got in the early game the more likely you were to fend off a 2 rax/bunker rush, banshee/hellion rush, cannon wall in, 4 gate, phoenix rush, 6 pool, etc.
Basically slow hydras were there to lead you to water and make you drink. But leave it to zerg players to reduce a godsent unit (the queen) into a cog in their relentless drone making machine. Anybody who claims that tvz or anything else is imba was not actually playing zerg, he was playing drones. Some people have a drone fetish that can't be cured, no matter how many patches or units you give them. They love drones more than they love winning games.
The Blizzard guy in those videos didn't shave his head, he pulled his hair out.
You do know that Hydra have a marine/marauder/colossi/zealot/sentry speed ?
This never stop terran from crossing the map to bunker rush a zerg or a toss to push you, isn't it ?
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On October 23 2011 01:15 YoiChiBow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:13 roymarthyup wrote:On October 23 2011 01:11 YoiChiBow wrote:On October 23 2011 01:09 mordk wrote:
I think the replicant might be a bit too strong in certain scenarios, its probably gonna be key in:
1-1-1 defense: It effectively nullifies 1-1-1 as a viable build; replicate a siege tank to control the area, or replicate a raven then HSM the marines.
Late game caster battles: The replicant counters ghosts if well played, and there's something else that hasn't been considered. The replicant is effectively a khaydarin amulet.
I could write up a few more situations in which it can really be an amazing unit, maybe too amazing. The high cost of the replicant (being 400/400 and 4 supply cost) seems very unfeasible with stopping the 1-1-1. This is a real time strategy and the biggest factor in dealing with the 1-1-1 is time because the fact that it comes so early. the replicant is 200/200 and turns into a 3 supply siege tank and this is NOT A BAD DEAL at all for toss. the replicant will essentially make it so terran can NEVER go tanks against toss, because the moment terran gets 1 tank the toss will replicate a few tanks for himself and now the terran must fight against tanks+collossi the replicant will kill the 1-1-1 strategy I really doubt you can get out a colossus and a replicant by the X minute mark.
replicants come out just as fast as immortals. actually from the looks of it replicants are designed to be EXTREMELY fast-building to allow for fast tech switches (for example toss can make 10 replicants quickly and turn them all into voidrays if he wants a fleet of voidrays quickly. the toss doesnt have to build 4 expensive stargates to techswitch into voidrays)
the moment the terran is going 1-1-1 the toss can just replicate a siege tank and now the toss has immortals + a siege tank to defend against the 1-1-1
the 1-1-1 will never work against protoss once replicants are here.
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United Kingdom12032 Posts
I don't think people seem to understand the way the relicant works. It can only change into units it can see. Also, it's not even finished it's design yet so it'll probably change a lot.
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On October 23 2011 01:16 shockaslim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 00:59 Deckkie wrote:On October 23 2011 00:53 Jakkerr wrote:On October 23 2011 00:39 Deckkie wrote:On October 23 2011 00:36 27power wrote:
ok i cant seem to find this anywhere. can a replicant copy an scv so u can build CC's instead of nexi and use mules? Yes, They can build a CC then a Supply depot, then a Rax and then morph the CC into a OC and drop mules. The more I think about the Replicant the more I hate it. The unit description should be: ''Sorry Protoss players, we couldn't fix it, now you can build Terran and Zerg bases, GL HF'' It makes no sense at all. You do realize it is totally unreasonable to invest in a second tech tree? But on first glance it does feel a little like they gave Protoss every caster unit in the game.\ edit: invest not infest When protoss gets to the late game it is completely feasible to go down another tech tree. Its literally one more building after you get the Twilight Council to have either HTs or DTs.
Exactly. Once your on 3 bases you can start to add 'each tech' you want for the future. Its not uncommon for me to have every single tech available to me at the 4 base mark. I wont neccesarilly use it right away, but robo and twilight tech are kinda 'must haves' for late game, so we end up getting it asap.
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On October 23 2011 01:15 ohampatu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:09 ePBuckets wrote:
whilst i like the theory of the oracle (ie. harass unit thats a spell caster that doesnt kill units), its total horse shit cause every other fk'n harass unit KILLS WORKERS.
all we wanted was a harass unit or something to micro in our warp prisms...
replicant, they even said it was costly 200/200, how much use is that REALLY gonna have though.
i feel like its just more micro intensive (when we steal spellcasters ie. viper to pull back our units T.T)
edit: every replicant scenario is just a "cute" play, that we could have dealt with another way. i don't think replicant is healthy for the game (ie why play toss if we gotta use other races units lols)
tempest is bad ass, i wish they left carrier though so we can have a choice of one or the other.
carriers vs mech, tempest vs muta.
i really dislike the oracle, i'm on the fence about the replicant, and i like the tempest.
im underwhelmed, i feel like we didnt get what we wanted.
also viper pull is going to be so fucking ridiculous, buff feedback range NAOOOOO Replicant is amazing. Make 2 full mana HT's without going HT tech. Make a couple ghosts to 'cloak and head in and emp' the terran ball to kill its medivacks/ghosts energy. People aren't thinking right. Replicant a tank to defend early expands vs bio play. Replicant a raven for worker harrass and pdd in your army. Replicant 2 banshees for some surprise harrass. TLDR--We didn't get the best units, but we got units that have a higher skill cap imo.
well you've to see the units and target them to replicate them so you opponent already has the units and paid less than you to have them
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On October 23 2011 01:17 roymarthyup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:15 YoiChiBow wrote:On October 23 2011 01:13 roymarthyup wrote:On October 23 2011 01:11 YoiChiBow wrote:On October 23 2011 01:09 mordk wrote:
I think the replicant might be a bit too strong in certain scenarios, its probably gonna be key in:
1-1-1 defense: It effectively nullifies 1-1-1 as a viable build; replicate a siege tank to control the area, or replicate a raven then HSM the marines.
Late game caster battles: The replicant counters ghosts if well played, and there's something else that hasn't been considered. The replicant is effectively a khaydarin amulet.
I could write up a few more situations in which it can really be an amazing unit, maybe too amazing. The high cost of the replicant (being 400/400 and 4 supply cost) seems very unfeasible with stopping the 1-1-1. This is a real time strategy and the biggest factor in dealing with the 1-1-1 is time because the fact that it comes so early. the replicant is 200/200 and turns into a 3 supply siege tank and this is NOT A BAD DEAL at all for toss. the replicant will essentially make it so terran can NEVER go tanks against toss, because the moment terran gets 1 tank the toss will replicate a few tanks for himself and now the terran must fight against tanks+collossi the replicant will kill the 1-1-1 strategy I really doubt you can get out a colossus and a replicant by the X minute mark. replicants come out just as fast as immortals. actually from the looks of it replicants are designed to be EXTREMELY fast-building to allow for fast tech switches (for example toss can make 10 replicants quickly and turn them all into voidrays if he wants a fleet of voidrays quickly. the toss doesnt have to build 4 expensive stargates to techswitch into voidrays) the moment the terran is going 1-1-1 the toss can just replicate a siege tank and now the toss has immortals + a siege tank to defend against the 1-1-1 the 1-1-1 will never work against protoss once replicants are here.
except you need to cut immortals to actually get a replicant, not to mention spend 200 gas, which is 2 immortals worth.
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On October 23 2011 01:11 ePBuckets wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:11 29 fps wrote:
nexus "defensive" ability: i sense a LOT of cheesing, now doable with gateway instead of forge.... pylon in enemy mineral line, and then use the ability on it. LOL
You need a gateway to be able to use it.
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The protoss units look really weak and boring  .
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On October 23 2011 01:13 roymarthyup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:11 YoiChiBow wrote:On October 23 2011 01:09 mordk wrote:
I think the replicant might be a bit too strong in certain scenarios, its probably gonna be key in:
1-1-1 defense: It effectively nullifies 1-1-1 as a viable build; replicate a siege tank to control the area, or replicate a raven then HSM the marines.
Late game caster battles: The replicant counters ghosts if well played, and there's something else that hasn't been considered. The replicant is effectively a khaydarin amulet.
I could write up a few more situations in which it can really be an amazing unit, maybe too amazing. The high cost of the replicant (being 400/400 and 4 supply cost) seems very unfeasible with stopping the 1-1-1. This is a real time strategy and the biggest factor in dealing with the 1-1-1 is time because the fact that it comes so early. the replicant is 200/200 and turns into a 3 supply siege tank and this is NOT A BAD DEAL at all for toss. the replicant will essentially make it so terran can NEVER go tanks against toss, because the moment terran gets 1 tank the toss will replicate a few tanks for himself and now the terran must fight against tanks+collossi the replicant will kill the 1-1-1 strategy
Terran were never going tank against Protoss anyways, unless it was for 1-1-1. I really don't see how this is good balance change.
I also don't want nasty zerg parasites in my Protoss army. It seems dirty.
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On October 23 2011 01:12 EscPlan9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:09 mordk wrote:
I think the replicant might be a bit too strong in certain scenarios, its probably gonna be key in:
1-1-1 defense: It effectively nullifies 1-1-1 as a viable build; replicate a siege tank to control the area, or replicate a raven then HSM the marines.
Late game caster battles: The replicant counters ghosts if well played, and there's something else that hasn't been considered. The replicant is effectively a khaydarin amulet.
I could write up a few more situations in which it can really be an amazing unit, maybe too amazing. Because of how expensive the Replicant is and the tech path to get there, it's unlikely to be out in time to defend against 1/1/1 while you're still on 1 base. Except maybe if you make cuts every to get a replicant ASAP, and even then the rest of your army will suck so bad it won't be able to hold off the 1/1/1.
They said the nexus could turn into a photo cannon or something, so that should help.
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EPT
