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On October 23 2011 01:21 s3183529 wrote:
It seems like Blizz didn't put a lot of thoughts into Toss' units, it's like: okay, i think this one looks cool, try it out cuz i'm out of idea. LOL
I think Mutas are dead in PvZ. This leaves them only viable in TvZ, but with the new warhound we will see. Zerg could really use scourge to duke it out against those Tempest-_-. And since when are mass mutas an issue in PvZ??? Just make phoenixes and kite them 4ever.
I just also hope Mech doesn't become an EZ button -_-. Then again Vipers are pretty good.
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On October 23 2011 01:25 silentblob wrote:
I hate that terran have a mothership unit now... I hate that every new terran unit seems to be designed for less skill cap... If they don't make them more interesting I'm gonna go air with protoss all the time.
Terran will be the casual race of Hots
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Err, from my understanding, you have to target something with the Replicant. They mention you have to be able to SEE it (i.e. an Observer spots it in his base, and you use that sight to select it and replicate it from the other end of the map). This implies it has to be literally on the field in order to copy.
Right, Replicant range is LOS. So like, you can have a replicant parked in your base, hallucinate a phoenix, fly it over your opponent's base and replicate whatever you get vision of. But you do have to get that vision.
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Ok, so i had it bit wrong (was just going off what i was reading in the thread and other people were saying)
But you can still mass VR's pretty quickly without using your stargate (just have to build it)
You can still get a few full mana HT by just building the Templar Archives. How many games have you lost to that bio allin because storm was 10 seconds from finishing.
Any harrass done to you, you can turn around and do it right back to them.
I dont know aboute pvz, but i think pvt will become drastically different then.
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On October 23 2011 01:24 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:23 roymarthyup wrote:On October 23 2011 01:20 ohampatu wrote:On October 23 2011 01:18 GizmoPT wrote:On October 23 2011 01:15 ohampatu wrote:On October 23 2011 01:09 ePBuckets wrote:
whilst i like the theory of the oracle (ie. harass unit thats a spell caster that doesnt kill units), its total horse shit cause every other fk'n harass unit KILLS WORKERS.
all we wanted was a harass unit or something to micro in our warp prisms...
replicant, they even said it was costly 200/200, how much use is that REALLY gonna have though.
i feel like its just more micro intensive (when we steal spellcasters ie. viper to pull back our units T.T)
edit: every replicant scenario is just a "cute" play, that we could have dealt with another way. i don't think replicant is healthy for the game (ie why play toss if we gotta use other races units lols)
tempest is bad ass, i wish they left carrier though so we can have a choice of one or the other.
carriers vs mech, tempest vs muta.
i really dislike the oracle, i'm on the fence about the replicant, and i like the tempest.
im underwhelmed, i feel like we didnt get what we wanted.
also viper pull is going to be so fucking ridiculous, buff feedback range NAOOOOO Replicant is amazing. Make 2 full mana HT's without going HT tech. Make a couple ghosts to 'cloak and head in and emp' the terran ball to kill its medivacks/ghosts energy. People aren't thinking right. Replicant a tank to defend early expands vs bio play. Replicant a raven for worker harrass and pdd in your army. Replicant 2 banshees for some surprise harrass. TLDR--We didn't get the best units, but we got units that have a higher skill cap imo. well you've to see the units and target them to replicate them so you opponent already has the units and paid less than you to have them Unless every other person here is wrong, you can replicate units that you own without having them and that your opponents can make, not just units they have on the field. Like prevoius poster above me said. Getting a few VR very quickly without going stargate tech. oh no, you have to get ONE STARGATE to make a replicant of voidrays however, replicants will let you get a fleet of 10 voidrays very quickly. replicants seem to be EXTREMELY FAST-BUILDING allowing for fast tech switches for protoss. so protoss can make 1 stargate and get 10 voidrays quickly instead of needing to build 4 stargates. 4 stargates costs 600/600 but 1 stargate is only 150/150 they cost 200/200, rofl.
Cheaper than a Collossus...would make PvP kind of hilarious. The moment someone makes a single Collossus, both sides instantly have a bunch of fully-upgraded Collossi.
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On October 23 2011 01:14 YoiChiBow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:12 EscPlan9 wrote:On October 23 2011 01:09 mordk wrote:
I think the replicant might be a bit too strong in certain scenarios, its probably gonna be key in:
1-1-1 defense: It effectively nullifies 1-1-1 as a viable build; replicate a siege tank to control the area, or replicate a raven then HSM the marines.
Late game caster battles: The replicant counters ghosts if well played, and there's something else that hasn't been considered. The replicant is effectively a khaydarin amulet.
I could write up a few more situations in which it can really be an amazing unit, maybe too amazing. Because of how expensive the Replicant is and the tech path to get there, it's unlikely to be out in time to defend against 1/1/1 while you're still on 1 base. Except maybe if you make cuts every to get a replicant ASAP, and even then the rest of your army will suck so bad it won't be able to hold off the 1/1/1. Even if you cut probes and rush to replicant I doubt one "replicated" siege tank is going to change the tide of battle. That's like rushing to colossus vs the 1/1/1 and it just being easily target fired down by tanks. And/or just getting siege tank contained on ur ramp.
Of course it will change the tide of the battle, it's not so much as the actual damage, but th ability to zone the terran and control where he is. The problem with the 1-1-1 is protoss is FORCED to engage wherever the terran wants him to, in a very disadvantageous position. Replicant can prevent that.
Also, you can get 1 and a half immortals by the time 1-1-1 hits, with a decent army. Why wouldn't you be able to have a replicant?
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On October 23 2011 01:24 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:23 roymarthyup wrote:On October 23 2011 01:20 ohampatu wrote:On October 23 2011 01:18 GizmoPT wrote:On October 23 2011 01:15 ohampatu wrote:On October 23 2011 01:09 ePBuckets wrote:
whilst i like the theory of the oracle (ie. harass unit thats a spell caster that doesnt kill units), its total horse shit cause every other fk'n harass unit KILLS WORKERS.
all we wanted was a harass unit or something to micro in our warp prisms...
replicant, they even said it was costly 200/200, how much use is that REALLY gonna have though.
i feel like its just more micro intensive (when we steal spellcasters ie. viper to pull back our units T.T)
edit: every replicant scenario is just a "cute" play, that we could have dealt with another way. i don't think replicant is healthy for the game (ie why play toss if we gotta use other races units lols)
tempest is bad ass, i wish they left carrier though so we can have a choice of one or the other.
carriers vs mech, tempest vs muta.
i really dislike the oracle, i'm on the fence about the replicant, and i like the tempest.
im underwhelmed, i feel like we didnt get what we wanted.
also viper pull is going to be so fucking ridiculous, buff feedback range NAOOOOO Replicant is amazing. Make 2 full mana HT's without going HT tech. Make a couple ghosts to 'cloak and head in and emp' the terran ball to kill its medivacks/ghosts energy. People aren't thinking right. Replicant a tank to defend early expands vs bio play. Replicant a raven for worker harrass and pdd in your army. Replicant 2 banshees for some surprise harrass. TLDR--We didn't get the best units, but we got units that have a higher skill cap imo. well you've to see the units and target them to replicate them so you opponent already has the units and paid less than you to have them Unless every other person here is wrong, you can replicate units that you own without having them and that your opponents can make, not just units they have on the field. Like prevoius poster above me said. Getting a few VR very quickly without going stargate tech. oh no, you have to get ONE STARGATE to make a replicant of voidrays however, replicants will let you get a fleet of 10 voidrays very quickly. replicants seem to be EXTREMELY FAST-BUILDING allowing for fast tech switches for protoss. so protoss can make 1 stargate and get 10 voidrays quickly instead of needing to build 4 stargates. 4 stargates costs 600/600 but 1 stargate is only 150/150 they cost 200/200, rofl.
lategame when you notice a zerg is switching into broodlords, it will be worth it to get 10 quick replicants to make 10 voidrays quickly. you save money by not needing to get all those stargates
also lategame against zerg is finally when toss normally has plenty of income and can do something like that to deal with broodlords better
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On October 23 2011 01:26 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +Err, from my understanding, you have to target something with the Replicant. They mention you have to be able to SEE it (i.e. an Observer spots it in his base, and you use that sight to select it and replicate it from the other end of the map). This implies it has to be literally on the field in order to copy. Right, Replicant range is LOS. So like, you can have a replicant parked in your base, hallucinate a phoenix, fly it over your opponent's base and replicate whatever you get vision of. But you do have to get that vision.
Observers Bro. Makes it cake.
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On October 23 2011 01:26 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:24 Shiori wrote:On October 23 2011 01:23 roymarthyup wrote:On October 23 2011 01:20 ohampatu wrote:On October 23 2011 01:18 GizmoPT wrote:On October 23 2011 01:15 ohampatu wrote:On October 23 2011 01:09 ePBuckets wrote:
whilst i like the theory of the oracle (ie. harass unit thats a spell caster that doesnt kill units), its total horse shit cause every other fk'n harass unit KILLS WORKERS.
all we wanted was a harass unit or something to micro in our warp prisms...
replicant, they even said it was costly 200/200, how much use is that REALLY gonna have though.
i feel like its just more micro intensive (when we steal spellcasters ie. viper to pull back our units T.T)
edit: every replicant scenario is just a "cute" play, that we could have dealt with another way. i don't think replicant is healthy for the game (ie why play toss if we gotta use other races units lols)
tempest is bad ass, i wish they left carrier though so we can have a choice of one or the other.
carriers vs mech, tempest vs muta.
i really dislike the oracle, i'm on the fence about the replicant, and i like the tempest.
im underwhelmed, i feel like we didnt get what we wanted.
also viper pull is going to be so fucking ridiculous, buff feedback range NAOOOOO Replicant is amazing. Make 2 full mana HT's without going HT tech. Make a couple ghosts to 'cloak and head in and emp' the terran ball to kill its medivacks/ghosts energy. People aren't thinking right. Replicant a tank to defend early expands vs bio play. Replicant a raven for worker harrass and pdd in your army. Replicant 2 banshees for some surprise harrass. TLDR--We didn't get the best units, but we got units that have a higher skill cap imo. well you've to see the units and target them to replicate them so you opponent already has the units and paid less than you to have them Unless every other person here is wrong, you can replicate units that you own without having them and that your opponents can make, not just units they have on the field. Like prevoius poster above me said. Getting a few VR very quickly without going stargate tech. oh no, you have to get ONE STARGATE to make a replicant of voidrays however, replicants will let you get a fleet of 10 voidrays very quickly. replicants seem to be EXTREMELY FAST-BUILDING allowing for fast tech switches for protoss. so protoss can make 1 stargate and get 10 voidrays quickly instead of needing to build 4 stargates. 4 stargates costs 600/600 but 1 stargate is only 150/150 they cost 200/200, rofl. Cheaper than a Collossus...would make PvP kind of hilarious. The moment someone makes a single Collossus, both sides instantly have a bunch of fully-upgraded Collossi.
cant replicate massive units
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replicant comes from robo, so maybe if we get obs and put obs in their base we'll have vision to replicate their tech.
in a defense vs 1-1-1 scenario, replicant would have to be in our army and we'd have to run out and meet the terran army, and micro the transform.
another thing to micro for the protoss army.
i realise terran is "all micro" but its not spell casting/ability micro, its unit control.
bah.
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On October 23 2011 01:26 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:24 Shiori wrote:On October 23 2011 01:23 roymarthyup wrote:On October 23 2011 01:20 ohampatu wrote:On October 23 2011 01:18 GizmoPT wrote:On October 23 2011 01:15 ohampatu wrote:On October 23 2011 01:09 ePBuckets wrote:
whilst i like the theory of the oracle (ie. harass unit thats a spell caster that doesnt kill units), its total horse shit cause every other fk'n harass unit KILLS WORKERS.
all we wanted was a harass unit or something to micro in our warp prisms...
replicant, they even said it was costly 200/200, how much use is that REALLY gonna have though.
i feel like its just more micro intensive (when we steal spellcasters ie. viper to pull back our units T.T)
edit: every replicant scenario is just a "cute" play, that we could have dealt with another way. i don't think replicant is healthy for the game (ie why play toss if we gotta use other races units lols)
tempest is bad ass, i wish they left carrier though so we can have a choice of one or the other.
carriers vs mech, tempest vs muta.
i really dislike the oracle, i'm on the fence about the replicant, and i like the tempest.
im underwhelmed, i feel like we didnt get what we wanted.
also viper pull is going to be so fucking ridiculous, buff feedback range NAOOOOO Replicant is amazing. Make 2 full mana HT's without going HT tech. Make a couple ghosts to 'cloak and head in and emp' the terran ball to kill its medivacks/ghosts energy. People aren't thinking right. Replicant a tank to defend early expands vs bio play. Replicant a raven for worker harrass and pdd in your army. Replicant 2 banshees for some surprise harrass. TLDR--We didn't get the best units, but we got units that have a higher skill cap imo. well you've to see the units and target them to replicate them so you opponent already has the units and paid less than you to have them Unless every other person here is wrong, you can replicate units that you own without having them and that your opponents can make, not just units they have on the field. Like prevoius poster above me said. Getting a few VR very quickly without going stargate tech. oh no, you have to get ONE STARGATE to make a replicant of voidrays however, replicants will let you get a fleet of 10 voidrays very quickly. replicants seem to be EXTREMELY FAST-BUILDING allowing for fast tech switches for protoss. so protoss can make 1 stargate and get 10 voidrays quickly instead of needing to build 4 stargates. 4 stargates costs 600/600 but 1 stargate is only 150/150 they cost 200/200, rofl. Cheaper than a Collossus...would make PvP kind of hilarious. The moment someone makes a single Collossus, both sides instantly have a bunch of fully-upgraded Collossi.
You can't replicate message units. Which means replicants *must* be not cost effective in the long run. (I say long run because TLers don't do math well, and it the opponent has a unit, and you replicate it and you get full upgrades, it will be extremely cost effective. However, since 200/200 costs more than any non-massive units, it will not be cost effective)
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So.. am i the only one feeling like the replicant probably never will be used? It kinda just feels expansive and you get a less worth units from it...
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they cost 200/200, rofl.
Uh Voids are 250/150. So replicant Voids are somewhat more expensive, but not that much more--you're effectively paying 50 gas more and 50 minerals less to build Voids in half the time. That certainly wouldn't always be worth it, but its not hard to envision scenarios where it would be.
The replicant is a terrible idea seriously, how can someone just agree with the idea of "taking the opponent units" is seriously way too hard to understand for me.
Yeah BW would NEVER give Protoss a way to "take the opponents units"...
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Mind_Control
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On October 23 2011 01:27 roymarthyup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:26 Bibdy wrote:On October 23 2011 01:24 Shiori wrote:On October 23 2011 01:23 roymarthyup wrote:On October 23 2011 01:20 ohampatu wrote:On October 23 2011 01:18 GizmoPT wrote:On October 23 2011 01:15 ohampatu wrote:On October 23 2011 01:09 ePBuckets wrote:
whilst i like the theory of the oracle (ie. harass unit thats a spell caster that doesnt kill units), its total horse shit cause every other fk'n harass unit KILLS WORKERS.
all we wanted was a harass unit or something to micro in our warp prisms...
replicant, they even said it was costly 200/200, how much use is that REALLY gonna have though.
i feel like its just more micro intensive (when we steal spellcasters ie. viper to pull back our units T.T)
edit: every replicant scenario is just a "cute" play, that we could have dealt with another way. i don't think replicant is healthy for the game (ie why play toss if we gotta use other races units lols)
tempest is bad ass, i wish they left carrier though so we can have a choice of one or the other.
carriers vs mech, tempest vs muta.
i really dislike the oracle, i'm on the fence about the replicant, and i like the tempest.
im underwhelmed, i feel like we didnt get what we wanted.
also viper pull is going to be so fucking ridiculous, buff feedback range NAOOOOO Replicant is amazing. Make 2 full mana HT's without going HT tech. Make a couple ghosts to 'cloak and head in and emp' the terran ball to kill its medivacks/ghosts energy. People aren't thinking right. Replicant a tank to defend early expands vs bio play. Replicant a raven for worker harrass and pdd in your army. Replicant 2 banshees for some surprise harrass. TLDR--We didn't get the best units, but we got units that have a higher skill cap imo. well you've to see the units and target them to replicate them so you opponent already has the units and paid less than you to have them Unless every other person here is wrong, you can replicate units that you own without having them and that your opponents can make, not just units they have on the field. Like prevoius poster above me said. Getting a few VR very quickly without going stargate tech. oh no, you have to get ONE STARGATE to make a replicant of voidrays however, replicants will let you get a fleet of 10 voidrays very quickly. replicants seem to be EXTREMELY FAST-BUILDING allowing for fast tech switches for protoss. so protoss can make 1 stargate and get 10 voidrays quickly instead of needing to build 4 stargates. 4 stargates costs 600/600 but 1 stargate is only 150/150 they cost 200/200, rofl. Cheaper than a Collossus...would make PvP kind of hilarious. The moment someone makes a single Collossus, both sides instantly have a bunch of fully-upgraded Collossi. cant replicate massive units
Aww poo.
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i cannot WAIT LOL
i hope there's less screaming about imba (similar to what it's like now) when this game comes. you don't know imba until there are some REAL spellcasters in this game.
mobile spidermine? LOLLL holy shit that will be so cool
these units and upgrades will cost so much that it will force players into 3->4 base play or cleverly executed 2->3base timings. and the multitasking possiblities are endless
actually gives me nerd chills :D
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replicant is a touch too expensive.
oracle is a terrible unit, we want to kill workers blizzard wtf, every other harass unit kills them but protoss needs a fkn spell caster to not kill them? no fair.
we will need feedback range buff to counter viper pull T.T
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On October 23 2011 01:29 awesomoecalypse wrote:Uh Voids are 250/150. So replicant Voids are somewhat more expensive, but not that much more--you're effectively paying 50 gas more and 50 minerals less to build Voids in half the time. That certainly wouldn't always be worth it, but its not hard to envision scenarios where it would be. Show nested quote +The replicant is a terrible idea seriously, how can someone just agree with the idea of "taking the opponent units" is seriously way too hard to understand for me. Yeah BW would NEVER give Protoss a way to "take the opponents units"... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Mind_Control
it's just something to do in team games. it's basically worthless in 1v1 until possibly the ultra-late game, but anyone who thinks this is gonna do anything to 1-1-1, ghost play, BL infestor, or anything else is kidding themselves.
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On October 23 2011 01:23 JesusOurSaviour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:21 s3183529 wrote:
It seems like Blizz didn't put a lot of thoughts into Toss' units, it's like: okay, i think this one looks cool, try it out cuz i'm out of idea. LOL What you said + they refuse. I repeat, REFUSE to bring back a lot of SC1 units. Corsair? Problem solved for mutas lol
Blizzard:
"so yeah here's an air unit that wrecks muta and shoots ground"
TL Response:
"Oh god i hope they don't only counter muta that would be SO STUPID"
"Why don't they just put corsairs in LOL muta no prob"
Dustin Browder:
*rips out hair*
at least now we know why he's bald *rolleyes*
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On October 23 2011 01:21 s3183529 wrote:
It seems like Blizz didn't put a lot of thoughts into Toss' units, it's like: okay, i think this one looks cool, try it out cuz i'm out of idea. LOL
I think they don't put too many thoughts on pretty much any units. I have a bad feeling about this. I think its still gonna be a great game, but I don't like the way they're designing the game. I watched D3 and HotS panels, and the D3 development team just seemed so much more... engaged.. with game design.
Basically, I don't like how they're designing the game, scrapping symbolic units, reverting things just out of the blue, getting strange substitutes for units... Something's fishy imo.
I do like the replicant though, and the new nexus skills.
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in order to counter 1-1-1 with replicants, all you simply need to do is the standards fast expansion+robo build against terran, and you will have out a observer in time for banshees and you will have out a quickly building replicant in time for 1-1-1 (if you scout 1-1-1 coming)
the moment you scout 1-1-1 coming you simple engage, and with the replicant in your base you copy a siege tank since the replicant has infinite range on its copy ability. then you run away and use that siege tank to defend your natural with stalkers+zealots+immortal+ your shiny SIEGE TANK
having one siege tank will completely let you beat the 1-1-1 easily. terran spends 150/125 on his first siege tank and 100/100 on the siege mode upgrade. terran spends 250/225 on his first siege tank, but protoss only spends 200/200 on his first siege tank. this is a COST-ADVANTAGE for the protoss
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EPT
