On October 23 2011 00:30 Horse...falcon wrote: Swarm host doesn't feel very zerg at all...
Zerg is supposed to be very quick moving and good at taking the map. If I have a number of swarm hosts I'm going to be stuck babysitting them like brood lords. Also they don't seem that effective, in this video
it takes 9 swarm hosts 1 round (about 30ish seconds) to take out a bunker...I get that they're supposed to be used for cannon fodder against enemy artillery but zerglings kind of fulfill the same role without a super big unit to slow it down.
This... I think everyone is so obsessed with the Viper's pull that nobody is paying attention to the Swarm Host and how weak it actually looks in practice. Out of all the units they introduced for all races, it definitely looks the weakest, in the video. The rate for spawning the locusts seems so slow, there's a huge downtime in between to clean everything up.
The units aren't balanced right now. This is just them unveiling units they want to add and how they will work. There is a beta so they can tweak everything about the unit. The cost of it, how fast the swarm host makes units, the units realatively strength. You honestly dont think this is the 'set in stone unit' for the game do you. Lots of number tweaking till it becomes live.
On October 23 2011 01:32 Paladia wrote: An ability that allows you to check what tech is researching has to be the most useless thing in the game, at no point is that of much use.
Also, it is sad to see that Protoss if forced to go robo every single game for detection.
You can find out whether that starport is making a raven or a banshee, or whether cloak is being researched.
Or if its a really late expansions you can find out the stim timing and try and delay the allin. Lots of things it can be used for. Not the best ability, but vs zerg for instance on the hathercy, we can find out if burrow is being reasearched or drop play or realy anything.
Lots of examples.
Yea but you can piece all those together(At least against Terran) from other information and looking at building animations.
agreed. as protoss i can say that i would never build the oracle in its current form
there is never a moment where i dont know what unit the terran is building. i can tell straight away from the terrans unit-comp and building assortment if he is getting banshees or not, or if he is getting tanks
thee is only one use i can see for the oracle. If the oracle, for 200gas, is truly able to cast spells on multiple bunkers to "disable them", and it can do this quickly for 200gas and flys to the battle quickly after being made..... then i can see only one use for the oracle
you could use the oracle during a 3gate/voidray ALLIN and simply build 1 oracle and disable all the terrans bunkers during your attack. lol gg. thats the only use i can see the oracle having
On October 23 2011 01:37 Wire wrote: I'm kind of disappointed they didn't show off the detachable ocular vision that the viper has. It seems pretty important.
Couple of questions for thought:
If a protoss army is fungaled, can they still be recalled?
If a swarm host unburrows after the initial spawn, does the spawn time reset? In one sense I want to say I hope so because the cooldown as it stands seems very unforgiving. On the other hand I have no idea how much it costs so =/
yes a fungaled army can be recalled (see kiwi's defensive play with the mothership overcommitting with army and then recalling home)
On October 23 2011 01:21 s3183529 wrote: It seems like Blizz didn't put a lot of thoughts into Toss' units, it's like: okay, i think this one looks cool, try it out cuz i'm out of idea. LOL
I think they don't put too many thoughts on pretty much any units. I have a bad feeling about this. I think its still gonna be a great game, but I don't like the way they're designing the game. I watched D3 and HotS panels, and the D3 development team just seemed so much more... engaged.. with game design.
Basically, I don't like how they're designing the game, scrapping symbolic units, reverting things just out of the blue, getting strange substitutes for units... Something's fishy imo.
I do like the replicant though, and the new nexus skills.
Seems like it. They try to go for all the fancy, cool-looking stuff, but does not seem to make a lot of sense. The BW expansion for SC1 was EPIC, they did not change too much, but all the units seem to be very appropriate. This expansion seems to be a more flamboyant kind of thing. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to be the case for now.
Replicant would add more gameplay than all new units combined. It is a brilliant idea. People think that is will be either unbalanced or useless, but I don't think that will be the case: balancing the cost of the unit or changing the range of the ability are two ways that will be effective at making the unit very balanced.
Zerg looks OP. 100% sure it will get nerfed (no numbers needed). Protoss already have little reason to build Colossas in ZvP (corruptor, infestor); adding the viper just makes it that much more useless.
Overall, I was very impressed withe changes. I expected Blizzard to be shy about changing the game too much; but I think this will all work about for the better.
One thing I don't understand: why remove mothership but keep thor? Not like mothership was OP.
On October 23 2011 01:32 Paladia wrote: An ability that allows you to check what tech is researching has to be the most useless thing in the game, at no point is that of much use.
Also, it is sad to see that Protoss if forced to go robo every single game for detection.
You can find out whether that starport is making a raven or a banshee, or whether cloak is being researched.
Or if its a really late expansions you can find out the stim timing and try and delay the allin. Lots of things it can be used for. Not the best ability, but vs zerg for instance on the hathercy, we can find out if burrow is being reasearched or drop play or realy anything.
Lots of examples.
Yea but you can piece all those together(At least against Terran) from other information and looking at building animations.
agreed. as protoss i can say that i would never build the oracle in its current form
there is never a moment where i dont know what unit the terran is building. i can tell straight away from the terrans unit-comp and building assortment if he is getting banshees or not, or if he is getting tanks
thee is only one use i can see for the oracle. If the oracle, for 200gas, is truly able to cast spells on multiple bunkers to "disable them", and it can do this quickly for 200gas and flys to the battle quickly after being made..... then i can see only one use for the oracle
you could use the oracle during a 3gate/voidray ALLIN and simply build 1 oracle and disable all the terrans bunkers during your attack. lol gg. thats the only use i can see the oracle having
from what i heard from Artosis, the oracle is extremely fast so getting to their base is not gonna be a problem (or running away)
On October 23 2011 01:32 Paladia wrote: An ability that allows you to check what tech is researching has to be the most useless thing in the game, at no point is that of much use.
Also, it is sad to see that Protoss if forced to go robo every single game for detection.
You can find out whether that starport is making a raven or a banshee, or whether cloak is being researched.
Or if its a really late expansions you can find out the stim timing and try and delay the allin. Lots of things it can be used for. Not the best ability, but vs zerg for instance on the hathercy, we can find out if burrow is being reasearched or drop play or realy anything.
Lots of examples.
Yea but you can piece all those together(At least against Terran) from other information and looking at building animations.
agreed. as protoss i can say that i would never build the oracle in its current form
there is never a moment where i dont know what unit the terran is building. i can tell straight away from the terrans unit-comp and building assortment if he is getting banshees or not, or if he is getting tanks
thee is only one use i can see for the oracle. If the oracle, for 200gas, is truly able to cast spells on multiple bunkers to "disable them", and it can do this quickly for 200gas and flys to the battle quickly after being made..... then i can see only one use for the oracle
you could use the oracle during a 3gate/voidray ALLIN and simply build 1 oracle and disable all the terrans bunkers during your attack. lol gg. thats the only use i can see the oracle having
How about PvZ? Open Phoenix and shut down sporecrawlers. I can see it work in many different ways. But lets first wait till the actual Beta comes out ^^
On October 23 2011 01:32 Paladia wrote: An ability that allows you to check what tech is researching has to be the most useless thing in the game, at no point is that of much use.
Also, it is sad to see that Protoss if forced to go robo every single game for detection.
You can find out whether that starport is making a raven or a banshee, or whether cloak is being researched.
Or if its a really late expansions you can find out the stim timing and try and delay the allin. Lots of things it can be used for. Not the best ability, but vs zerg for instance on the hathercy, we can find out if burrow is being reasearched or drop play or realy anything.
Lots of examples.
Yea but you can piece all those together(At least against Terran) from other information and looking at building animations.
No you can't. There is no way in hell you can tell when Zerg is preparing for a 2 base drop play up untill a minute or two before they do it, unless they make it hugely obvious. We can find out the 'timings' of everything. Being able to check the upgrades of any building, and what that unit is building is pretty huge. That coupled with Observers will make toss the 'know all' race. People really just complain for the sake of complaining.
On October 23 2011 01:32 Paladia wrote: An ability that allows you to check what tech is researching has to be the most useless thing in the game, at no point is that of much use.
Also, it is sad to see that Protoss if forced to go robo every single game for detection.
You can find out whether that starport is making a raven or a banshee, or whether cloak is being researched.
Or if its a really late expansions you can find out the stim timing and try and delay the allin. Lots of things it can be used for. Not the best ability, but vs zerg for instance on the hathercy, we can find out if burrow is being reasearched or drop play or realy anything.
Lots of examples.
Yea but you can piece all those together(At least against Terran) from other information and looking at building animations.
agreed. as protoss i can say that i would never build the oracle in its current form
there is never a moment where i dont know what unit the terran is building. i can tell straight away from the terrans unit-comp and building assortment if he is getting banshees or not, or if he is getting tanks
thee is only one use i can see for the oracle. If the oracle, for 200gas, is truly able to cast spells on multiple bunkers to "disable them", and it can do this quickly for 200gas and flys to the battle quickly after being made..... then i can see only one use for the oracle
you could use the oracle during a 3gate/voidray ALLIN and simply build 1 oracle and disable all the terrans bunkers during your attack. lol gg. thats the only use i can see the oracle having
from what i heard from Artosis, the oracle is extremely fast so getting to their base is not gonna be a problem (or running away)
On October 23 2011 01:37 Fungal Growth wrote: Actually, the most valuable unit to replicate for toss will be...the SCV. This means protoss gets orbital commands!
The tempest will not shut down muta...it takes a fleet beacon which takes a lot of time/resources to tech to.
It also cost 300/300.
Browder indicated that this unit was probably going to get nerfed a bit...in a video where it took a lot of tempests to take down the mutas. For 300/300, mass blink stalkers/hts/archons will be a better counter for mutas.
Love the recall ability from Nexuses....so often in late game Nexus energy went unused because CB is so apm intensive...very creative/fun idea to add this as an option for protoss.
It might be a cool idea for the OP poster to link to corresponding liquidpedia articles for each of the new units, so the public can get these updated as soon as possible with the best information.
The tempest won't shut down muta because isn't designed to "shut down" muta, it's not even a midgame unit. it's designed to give Protoss an aoe air attack to combat mutas in the late game when zergs get 30+ of them.
On October 23 2011 01:32 Paladia wrote: An ability that allows you to check what tech is researching has to be the most useless thing in the game, at no point is that of much use.
Also, it is sad to see that Protoss if forced to go robo every single game for detection.
You can find out whether that starport is making a raven or a banshee, or whether cloak is being researched.
Or if its a really late expansions you can find out the stim timing and try and delay the allin. Lots of things it can be used for. Not the best ability, but vs zerg for instance on the hathercy, we can find out if burrow is being reasearched or drop play or realy anything.
Lots of examples.
Yea but you can piece all those together(At least against Terran) from other information and looking at building animations.
No you can't. There is no way in hell you can tell when Zerg is preparing for a 2 base drop play up untill a minute or two before they do it, unless they make it hugely obvious. We can find out the 'timings' of everything. Being able to check the upgrades of any building, and what that unit is building is pretty huge. That coupled with Observers will make toss the 'know all' race. People really just complain for the sake of complaining.
On October 23 2011 01:37 Fungal Growth wrote: Actually, the most valuable unit to replicate for toss will be...the SCV. This means protoss gets orbital commands!
The tempest will not shut down muta...it takes a fleet beacon which takes a lot of time/resources to tech to.
It also cost 300/300.
Browder indicated that this unit was probably going to get nerfed a bit...in a video where it took a lot of tempests to take down the mutas. For 300/300, mass blink stalkers/hts/archons will be a better counter for mutas.
Love the recall ability from Nexuses....so often in late game Nexus energy went unused because CB is so apm intensive...very creative/fun idea to add this as an option for protoss.
It might be a cool idea for the OP poster to link to corresponding liquidpedia articles for each of the new units, so the public can get these updated as soon as possible with the best information.
he even said what it's there for! when the zerg gets A LOT of muta kinda lategame there really isn't anything reasonable for the protoss to build (and the archon HT argument get's tiring already, that's not a counter and all pros complain about it since beta geewiz): enter tempest. also imagine that with a colossus build, the tempest taking out the clumped up viking ball HARR HARR
On October 23 2011 01:37 Fungal Growth wrote: Actually, the most valuable unit to replicate for toss will be...the SCV. This means protoss gets orbital commands!
The tempest will not shut down muta...it takes a fleet beacon which takes a lot of time/resources to tech to.
It also cost 300/300.
Browder indicated that this unit was probably going to get nerfed a bit...in a video where it took a lot of tempests to take down the mutas. For 300/300, mass blink stalkers/hts/archons will be a better counter for mutas.
Love the recall ability from Nexuses....so often in late game Nexus energy went unused because CB is so apm intensive...very creative/fun idea to add this as an option for protoss.
It might be a cool idea for the OP poster to link to corresponding liquidpedia articles for each of the new units, so the public can get these updated as soon as possible with the best information.
The tempest won't shut down muta because isn't designed to "shut down" muta, it's not even a midgame unit. it's designed to give Protoss an aoe air attack to combat mutas in the late game when zergs get 30+ of them.
also we dont know its air-to-ground stats atm.
In the build at Blizzcon, 35 damage to a single target. No idea about the range, though it looks about as long as a void ray's in the presentation.
EPT
