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New HotS Units/Abilities in Blizzcon - Page 315

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Mitchlew
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia428 Posts
October 22 2011 16:44 GMT
#6281
Might just be my bias but the new protoss features seem to be crap compared to the T and Z.
ohampatu
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1448 Posts
October 22 2011 16:44 GMT
#6282
On October 23 2011 01:41 Deckkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 01:39 roymarthyup wrote:
On October 23 2011 01:36 Numy wrote:
On October 23 2011 01:35 ohampatu wrote:
On October 23 2011 01:32 Paladia wrote:
An ability that allows you to check what tech is researching has to be the most useless thing in the game, at no point is that of much use.

Also, it is sad to see that Protoss if forced to go robo every single game for detection.


You can find out whether that starport is making a raven or a banshee, or whether cloak is being researched.

Or if its a really late expansions you can find out the stim timing and try and delay the allin. Lots of things it can be used for. Not the best ability, but vs zerg for instance on the hathercy, we can find out if burrow is being reasearched or drop play or realy anything.

Lots of examples.


Yea but you can piece all those together(At least against Terran) from other information and looking at building animations.



agreed. as protoss i can say that i would never build the oracle in its current form



there is never a moment where i dont know what unit the terran is building. i can tell straight away from the terrans unit-comp and building assortment if he is getting banshees or not, or if he is getting tanks


thee is only one use i can see for the oracle. If the oracle, for 200gas, is truly able to cast spells on multiple bunkers to "disable them", and it can do this quickly for 200gas and flys to the battle quickly after being made..... then i can see only one use for the oracle

you could use the oracle during a 3gate/voidray ALLIN and simply build 1 oracle and disable all the terrans bunkers during your attack. lol gg. thats the only use i can see the oracle having


How about PvZ?
Open Phoenix and shut down sporecrawlers.
I can see it work in many different ways.
But lets first wait till the actual Beta comes out ^^



You guys do realize that Terran does many pushes based off when his upgrades finish? I dont care if you know what units he's doing. If you know exactly when stim finishes, you are more prepared then if you didn't know. Ghosts are starting to see more use. Wouldn't you like to know if a nuke is beign researched? I would. As long as the unit has other uses on top of this its not bad.
I am become death, for I am the destroyer of worlds.....You will be missed KT Violet!!!
najreteip
Profile Joined December 2010
Belgium4158 Posts
October 22 2011 16:44 GMT
#6283
Oh man we're gonna see proxy gatecannons aren't we :p
I have no quote!
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
October 22 2011 16:44 GMT
#6284
On October 23 2011 01:13 roymarthyup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 01:11 YoiChiBow wrote:
On October 23 2011 01:09 mordk wrote:
I think the replicant might be a bit too strong in certain scenarios, its probably gonna be key in:

1-1-1 defense: It effectively nullifies 1-1-1 as a viable build; replicate a siege tank to control the area, or replicate a raven then HSM the marines.
Late game caster battles: The replicant counters ghosts if well played, and there's something else that hasn't been considered. The replicant is effectively a khaydarin amulet.

I could write up a few more situations in which it can really be an amazing unit, maybe too amazing.



The high cost of the replicant (being 400/400 and 4 supply cost) seems very unfeasible with stopping the 1-1-1. This is a real time strategy and the biggest factor in dealing with the 1-1-1 is time because the fact that it comes so early.


the replicant is 200/200 and turns into a 3 supply siege tank and this is NOT A BAD DEAL at all for toss. the replicant will essentially make it so terran can NEVER go tanks against toss, because the moment terran gets 1 tank the toss will replicate a few tanks for himself and now the terran must fight against tanks+collossi


the replicant will kill the 1-1-1 strategy


They absolutely said if this happens ("terran can NEVER go tanks against toss"), replicant is going to be removed or nerfed significantly. Why on earth they would buff mech and then made unit that essentialy forbids the mech's core unit?
ePBuckets
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada207 Posts
October 22 2011 16:45 GMT
#6285
i actually like how they put the goliath and firebat back in the game.
itll make shit way harder now, terran is good already.

zerg got great units too, i like zerg except the snare on fungal instead of slow, and the pull on the viper T.T

if mothership was removed, wheres da arbitarrrr?
Crisco
Profile Joined March 2011
1170 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 16:47:10
October 22 2011 16:46 GMT
#6286
On October 23 2011 01:37 ePBuckets wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 01:36 sitromit wrote:
On October 23 2011 00:30 Horse...falcon wrote:
Swarm host doesn't feel very zerg at all...

Zerg is supposed to be very quick moving and good at taking the map. If I have a number of swarm hosts I'm going to be stuck babysitting them like brood lords. Also they don't seem that effective, in this video



it takes 9 swarm hosts 1 round (about 30ish seconds) to take out a bunker...I get that they're supposed to be used for cannon fodder against enemy artillery but zerglings kind of fulfill the same role without a super big unit to slow it down.


This... I think everyone is so obsessed with the Viper's pull that nobody is paying attention to the Swarm Host and how weak it actually looks in practice. Out of all the units they introduced for all races, it definitely looks the weakest, in the video. The rate for spawning the locusts seems so slow, there's a huge downtime in between to clean everything up.


no dude, rather than burrow them all at once, burrow them in intervals that way there's always stuff pushing.

they did it ineffectively.


you are so smart (i thought of it too )

Secondly, the "theoretical" range for swarm host is longer than the siege tank. Unlike broodlords, you don't need a target to spawn the unit so it's quite fantastic
s3183529
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia707 Posts
October 22 2011 16:46 GMT
#6287
Anyone knows if zerg is gonna have both infestors and vipers???
Ozell
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada105 Posts
October 22 2011 16:46 GMT
#6288
I really like the new recall ability =) Yea, it will completely change the metagame but that might be a game changer for protoss, making PvZ actually balanced
ePBuckets
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada207 Posts
October 22 2011 16:47 GMT
#6289
On October 23 2011 01:46 s3183529 wrote:
Anyone knows if zerg is gonna have both infestors and vipers???


yes
skatbone
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1005 Posts
October 22 2011 16:47 GMT
#6290
On October 22 2011 12:00 lariat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 11:53 Crysack wrote:
On October 22 2011 11:49 awesomoecalypse wrote:
If tempest can be kited by vikings, I see no future for protoss in the PvT matchup...


The tempest is supposed to be pretty fast from what I understand. In a wierd way, the Tempest seems like the opposite of the carrier. Carriers were great against mech but sucked vs. mass anti-air. The Tempest looks like it will own mass air, but a bunch of ground-to-air like the new Goliath will mess it up.

Colossus/Tempest could be crazy potent, actually. Use Tempest to take down everything in the skies, and Colossi to melt ground forces. The only real counter would seem to be something like Battlecruisers.


Is the Tempest massive? What makes you think that mass viking or mass corruptor won't utterly obliterate Colossus/Tempest?

The Tempest looks like it's primarily designed to counter mass-muta. I can't imagine that the single-target DPS will be particularly high if they have that much splash - making them extremely vulnerable to the AA units of the other races.

Not to mention the ASTRONOMICAL amount of gas involved with a colossus/tempest composition - it's almost like advocating a carrier/colossus composition now.


I feel the tempest is a decent move from blizzard to address p's weakness to mutas, but it's misdirected. There are a host of reasons why but I feel the evidence is best stated by pro games. The majority of muta/ling or muta/roach zvps are won in the midgame, not the lategame. Protoss also doesn't have problems dealing with mutas in a head-on engagement, so I think the tempest is irrelevant: I don't see the tempest being used like corsairs because they are so expensive and take so long to get.


Yea I agree. Imo, recall on the nexus is the real buff to toss vs mutts. We can move out with our armies then return if the harass is over the top.
Mercurial#1193
s3183529
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia707 Posts
October 22 2011 16:47 GMT
#6291
On October 23 2011 01:47 ePBuckets wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 01:46 s3183529 wrote:
Anyone knows if zerg is gonna have both infestors and vipers???


yes

Then, it seems kinda OP to me...
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
October 22 2011 16:47 GMT
#6292
On October 23 2011 01:46 s3183529 wrote:
Anyone knows if zerg is gonna have both infestors and vipers???

Yes, the only unit Zerg lost was the Overseer.
ePBuckets
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada207 Posts
October 22 2011 16:48 GMT
#6293
On October 23 2011 01:47 s3183529 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 01:47 ePBuckets wrote:
On October 23 2011 01:46 s3183529 wrote:
Anyone knows if zerg is gonna have both infestors and vipers???


yes

Then, it seems kinda OP to me...


nah only fungal snare and pull are op.

Lazerlike42
Profile Joined July 2011
United States104 Posts
October 22 2011 16:48 GMT
#6294
The Oracle sure as heck better not be able to disable bunkers. That would clearly be OP, and Protoss would essentially be able to win every game by the 8 minute mark.
Deckkie
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1595 Posts
October 22 2011 16:48 GMT
#6295
On October 23 2011 01:47 s3183529 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 01:47 ePBuckets wrote:
On October 23 2011 01:46 s3183529 wrote:
Anyone knows if zerg is gonna have both infestors and vipers???


yes

Then, it seems kinda OP to me...


Earlier I made a bigger post about this.
But I think they will romve more units when it turns out that the new units are viable replacements.
(Carrier and Mothership could be removed immediatly because they werent reallt viable to begin with).
Always look on the bright side of life
skatbone
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1005 Posts
October 22 2011 16:49 GMT
#6296
On October 22 2011 12:00 Yosen3002 wrote:
you guys realise it doesnt make sense to theorycraft how to take down vipers before you even have played the game?


Well, given the amount of speculation that passes for good conversation on TL, I'd say it totally makes sense to theorycraft before playing the game. However, I would support the notion that it doesn't make sense to take such speculation too seriously.
Mercurial#1193
Paladia
Profile Joined August 2003
802 Posts
October 22 2011 16:49 GMT
#6297
On October 23 2011 01:42 saltygrapes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 01:37 Fungal Growth wrote:
Actually, the most valuable unit to replicate for toss will be...the SCV. This means protoss gets orbital commands!

The tempest will not shut down muta...it takes a fleet beacon which takes a lot of time/resources to tech to.

It also cost 300/300.

Browder indicated that this unit was probably going to get nerfed a bit...in a video where it took a lot of tempests to take down the mutas. For 300/300, mass blink stalkers/hts/archons will be a better counter for mutas.

Love the recall ability from Nexuses....so often in late game Nexus energy went unused because CB is so apm intensive...very creative/fun idea to add this as an option for protoss.

It might be a cool idea for the OP poster to link to corresponding liquidpedia articles for each of the new units, so the public can get these updated as soon as possible with the best information.


The tempest won't shut down muta because isn't designed to "shut down" muta, it's not even a midgame unit. it's designed to give Protoss an aoe air attack to combat mutas in the late game when zergs get 30+ of them.

also we dont know its air-to-ground stats atm.

Actually they said it was designed to counter 40-60 mutas.

However, getting an entirely new unit just to counter the case where someone goes 50 mutas seems hardly inspiring. As I've never seen 50 mutas in a pro game.
I can no longer rest under the tree of wisdom, since you have axed down the roots feeding it.
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 16:50:35
October 22 2011 16:50 GMT
#6298
The tempest addresses an "issue" that doesn't exist, especially if Nexus gains the recall ability, and it looks like it'll be overwhelmed by magic boxed mutas in any case (like the thor) so there's no reason to build it whatsoever unless it somehow also counters vikings or corrupters (being a massive unit, fat chance).
Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 16:52:23
October 22 2011 16:51 GMT
#6299
I wonder if the timer on each Locust allows for you to sit back with a few Swarm Hosts, then make a push with a bunch of them gathered up. Depending on how long they last, that might be a nice way of soaking up a ton of damage (the ones with lower timers would just die before their timer runs out due to the damage taken in an optimal situation, so you wouldn't be "wasting" any Locusts). It and Viper are actually the units I'm most interested in (range 1 Siege Tanks and a bunch of Locusts looks like it'll be fun to mess around with).

On October 23 2011 01:50 Azarkon wrote:
The tempest addresses an "issue" that doesn't exist, especially if Nexus gains the recall ability, and it looks like it'll be overwhelmed by magic boxed mutas in any case (like the thor) so there's no reason to build it whatsoever unless it somehow also counters vikings or corrupters (being a massive unit, fat chance).


From the video, it looks like Tempest actually has a ridiculously huge splash range.
Snorkle
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1648 Posts
October 22 2011 16:52 GMT
#6300
So how about using the oracle to phase out your own nexus that is being dropped? Oh wait! It doesn't work on nexus/cc/hatch. Worthless unit. Why the he'll would I invest in a harass/caster that can't kill workers and is worthless in my actual composition. I guess its time to switch to a race that gets real units instead of gimmicks
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