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McFeser
United States2458 Posts
On October 23 2011 01:34 escruting wrote: Anyone knows if the Viper has a normal attack? i dont think they've mentioned it, i guess it doesnt.... I'm pretty positive that it doesn't | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
Especially when it comes to the replicant. 'Protoss so UP that now we can just make T and Z units, because they are better than ours.' What a mature response. You've totally understood the idea and the function of this new unit. Well done. 'LOL we can make Terran units for more supply and more cost, oh great' Like...can you fucking imagine if you could clone (for example) siege tanks for LESS cost? Is it not immediately obvious how completely broken that would be? And if you could make massive units with the replicant; yeah terrific idea, no way that would snap PvP in half, right? Brb, making 20 colossus for the low low price of 200/200 and 4 supply each. The replicant allows protoss to get completely new compositions. I'm not sold on the unit just yet but ffs y'all gotta stop qqing about something you haven't tried, haven't seen used in a real game situation. | ||
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testthewest
Germany274 Posts
The replicant seems very interesting. Right upon hearing about it, I have a dozen ideas how to use him. - copy medivac, recall your blink-stalkers when in the red hp-wise, heal up - copy SVC, build orbital, use this as 3rd (or even natural expand) - copy infestor...I don't have to say more and so on... But the other 2 units seem problematic. Tempest looks cool, but I fear will have the same fate as the carrier: not used. Nobody will go down a techpath, just to get a ultra expensive unit to counter a T2 unit he can also handle with stalkers and if massed storms/archons. Furthermore toss already has enough choices lategame, we needed something interesting for the early game. And even in the best case scenario: If tempest rocks, why build phoenix at all? (Same as void rays somehow making Carriers unwanted). The new toss harrass unit is just a bad idea. So if my opponent does nothing, I do 500 minerals eco-dmg (as said by Blizzard in the Video). Well, if a banshee kills just 5 workers, that costs 250 minerals to replace, as well as 250 extra minerals that these 5 workers would have harvested in the time it needs to rebuild. And then, when banshee returns home, she is a decent fighting unit, while or harrass unit is just dead weight on our supply. | ||
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Sackings
Canada457 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
So what if the oracle gets out a live? This isn't very interesting. Do you really care in the mid/late game (when you have 140+ food) whether a banshee gets out alive? Oracles are more expensive than Banshees, they have less health, and Protoss in general is a gas starved race. Losing an Oracle is gonna be a big deal for Protoss, and potentially game-ending if it happens early enough. Not comparable to a Banshee at all. They absolutely said if this happens ("terran can NEVER go tanks against toss"), replicant is going to be removed or nerfed significantly. Why on earth they would buff mech and then made unit that essentialy forbids the mech's core unit? Killing the 1-1-1 =/= killing tank play in general. Due to the way the Replicant works, it is more cost efficient than single versions of units that required a lot of upgrades, like that first tank in the 1-1-1 effectively costs 100/100 more due to the cost of siege tech, which makes the Replicant more cost efficient. But every tank the terran builds after that will be a lot cheaper than each replicant the toss builds. So, mass tanks >>>>mass replicant tanks, but one replicant tank>one siege tank. Why the he'll would I invest in a harass/caster that can't kill workers and is worthless in my actual composition. Yeah why would anyone want to shut down their opponent's entire expo from mining for nearly a minute with one spell? Why would anyone build a unit that takes entire tech trees away from their opponent for nearly a minute at a time? Why would anyone want to eliminate static defense? | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:05 Fungal Growth wrote: Hydras are going to be quite common now vs toss. Now that the new air toss unit can stun spores (and phoenix can already lift queens), zerg will have to go mass hydras. Coupled with their new speed increase and that new grapple ability, hydras will become EXTREMELY powerful vs protoss. In fact, if you don't go colossi vs competent zerg playing hydras now, it's almost an auto-loss. If this grapple-hook counters colossi, combined with the speed upgrade for hydras...this is scary. Wow, haha - not even Beta has started now and you tell us like it's auto-loss not to go collosi vs competent zerg? I start to enjoy reading this thread apart from seeing unjustified whine.. :D | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
Also I love the nexus abilities, man this is going to be insane. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On October 22 2011 12:14 ToguRo wrote: to the people upset about PvT .... something that is getting overlooked David Kim said during the panel "EMP radius to get nerfed Forge upgrades to cost less or less time" Patch will happen in WoL Im a Zerg but that should help right ? He actually said this was to address toss weakness in both PvT and PvZ. Kim says this around 10:30 during the balance discussion: a "so that protoss in general can be more competitive against both races." | ||
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Hikari
1914 Posts
The only good thing I can really think of would be infestor + HT: storm on top of fungal. The oracle's ability to deny tech is quite powerful: A stargate open vs z for example will start with a Vr+phoenix. The moment you see that hydraden or spire you just make oracles to phase it out... Curious about the health of that mineral shield: because zerglings are melee units it might take a while for them to break the shields off a mineral patch. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On October 22 2011 12:15 Xolo wrote: You cynical people need to lighten up. Cynicism is fashionable...especially amongst people who privilege speculation over empiricism. | ||
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Kyhol
Canada2574 Posts
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:11 Al Bundy wrote: I have to say that so far I love the new Protoss Units. I kinda like how the Oracle works, from what I've seen with good enough multitasking, you can literally shut down the opponent's economy. Also I love the nexus abilities, man this is going to be insane. Exactly. Just picture this: Your observer spots the terran army moving to the middle of map, possibly checking the xel'naga before pushing. You see this, and use 2 oracles at his main and natural to shut down the mining. Terran is going to have be super defensive and play smart because good oracle play will just own. Multitasking and good effective apm will be rewarded. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:02 Fungal Growth wrote: Big problem now for toss is that they need AOE vs mass roach/rauder and only the colossi can do this. Blizzard really should have come up with another siege/aoe unit for colossi... If fact none of the new units/abilities address the roach/ling all in, or the mass marauder/marine stim timings, so this could be quite problematic for toss. The OP might want to add a note, that Blizzard did mention they are seriously looking at reducing the radius of emp (didn't see it mentioned...unless I missed this). They are also looking at changing the cost of protoss forge upgrades especially for level 2 and level 3...in which direction wasn't clear as this was kind of garbled in the video I saw but I think we will be looking at an increase in cost. Yet another nerf for toss  Yeah they said that they wanted to nerf ghosts and I am almost certain that they wanted to reduce some of the forge upgrades. Might have been shield upgrades :/ | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On October 23 2011 01:37 ePBuckets wrote: no dude, rather than burrow them all at once, burrow them in intervals that way there's always stuff pushing. they did it ineffectively. So only 2 Locusts at a time will be out? And what will that do exactly? Streams of 1 or 2 units attacking at a time is the weakest thing in this game and a good way to make sure all your units will die without doing any damage. | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
On October 23 2011 01:57 s3183529 wrote: Seems to be the case, many people think so. Just bring back dragoon and reaver, and remove stalker and collosi already. I didn't ever play BW. I know that the dragoon is basically just a stalker, but what EXACTLY does the reaver do too make it useful and apparently fix Protoss? | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
i can see it now. every game toss will send observer into enemy base, replicate a scv', and build a command center as his third base. keep a scv at home to make barracks and use the CC at your third, take your third, turn it into a planetary, and now the toss with a couple barracks will be massing MARINES with his army.... extremely imbalanced it was extremely hard for toss to mind control SCV's and drones in BW it is extremely hard for zerg to NP a scv/probe and make a new tech it will be EASY for toss to do it with replicants. it will be very OP i however can live with the idea of the replicant. it just would be too overpowered if it can target scv/drone | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:14 roymarthyup wrote: i feel to be balanced, replicants absolutely must not be able to copy drones or scv's. i can see it now. every game toss will send observer into enemy base, replicate a scv', and build a command center as his third base. keep a scv at home to make barracks and use the CC at your third, take your third, turn it into a planetary, and now the toss with a couple barracks will be massing MARINES with his army.... extremely imbalanced it was extremely hard for toss to mind control SCV's and drones in BW it is extremely hard for zerg to NP a scv/probe and make a new tech it will be EASY for toss to do it with replicants. it will be very OP i however can live with the idea of the replicant. it just would be too overpowered if it can target scv/drone Somebody has already done the math. And it will take thousands of resources just to get a planetary or OC. Your forgetting that you have to build the CC, then a supply depot, then a barracks (and an engi bay if you want PF). It wont be done ever in any competitive game. Anybody who has the same skill or near the same skill as you, can just come kill you. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
The new toss harrass unit is just a bad idea. So if my opponent does nothing, I do 500 minerals eco-dmg (as said by Blizzard in the Video). Right, but its fire and forget (or really, fire and get out). Banshees are slower than oracles, and killing 5 workers takes a Banshee 15 seconds, which is more than enough time for the opponent to react and drive your banshee off. If your opponent is preparing properly, you aren't going to get those 5 workers kill, or if you do you're going to lose the Banshee in the process. Whereas the Oracle gets one shot off and flies away, and thats all it has to do. More importantly, Oracles also have phase shift on buildings, which is crazy powerful. They can remove static defense. Straight up, push a button and static defense is gone for nearly a minute. They can remove entire tech trees. If you don't like Infestors, cast one spell on an Infestation Pit and Z can't make them anymore. You def. won't want "mass oracles" or anything like that. but one or two flying around, shutting down tech paths at key moments, removing static defense before your forces engage an enemy's base, and shutting down entire mineral lines for a while? That can definitely be super useful. And given how fast it is, and all the spells just need to be cast and then you can fly away with damage done, a skilled Protoss is much, much less likely to lose their Oracle than a Terran is to lose Banshees or Hellions. | ||
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