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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On October 22 2011 12:29 Shiori wrote: i'm baffled at david kim's comment that p has a "too strong" deathball or a "lot of options." O_O Hmmm...he was being rhetorical. He says "So a lot of people might argue that the protoss ball of death is a little to strong...". That is Kim commenting on a commonly held perspective, not holding that perspective himself. (30 minutes into the balance panel.) | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:21 MattyClutch wrote: I feel the same way. He was like 'and for all that you did 500 minerals damage assuming your opponent is AFK'. Hardly seems worth the effort. Might as well go for a traditional warp prism drop which has the ability to do damage to people who aren't asleep. The building take out feature of it could be quite useful, however. I see it more being useful in a traditional army just taking out static D, though it could harass via taking out buildings temporarily. But yeah from an econ point of view that unit looks like a waste of supply, build time, and resources. Picture this: Taldarim Altar. Both Terran and Protoss are on 3 bases. He pushes out to the xelnaga and kills your worker their. You have 2 of these flying around. Hit 2 of this bases at once, taking out the minig of both. Couple that with a warp prism drop or a medivack drop (replicant ftw) and you can really out multitask your opponent. And punish terran users who aren't staying near their base. this unit is good | ||
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Goshdarnit
United States540 Posts
On October 23 2011 01:41 Deckkie wrote: How about PvZ? Open Phoenix and shut down sporecrawlers. I can see it work in many different ways. But lets first wait till the actual Beta comes out ^^ No phoenix in HoTS. It was removed from stargate options in video. | ||
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magicallypuzzled
United States588 Posts
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imareaver3
United States906 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:16 ohampatu wrote: Somebody has already done the math. And it will take thousands of resources just to get a planetary or OC. Your forgetting that you have to build the CC, then a supply depot, then a barracks (and an engi bay if you want PF). It wont be done ever in any competitive game. Anybody who has the same skill or near the same skill as you, can just come kill you. I wouldn't go that far--I think that it might be useful to get OC's instead of probes in the uber-late game, kinda like Terran occasionally does now. It's a 350/200 (450/200 if you count the supply depot) investment to get the requisite tech to build OC's, which isn't that large late-game. And the extra supply can be critical on a large map with lots of bases to mule. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:21 MattyClutch wrote: I feel the same way. He was like 'and for all that you did 500 minerals damage assuming your opponent is AFK'. Hardly seems worth the effort. Might as well go for a traditional warp prism drop which has the ability to do damage to people who aren't asleep. The building take out feature of it could be quite useful, however. I see it more being useful in a traditional army just taking out static D, though it could harass via taking out buildings temporarily. But yeah from an econ point of view that unit looks like a waste of supply, build time, and resources. Protoss just like to cry. Actually the Oracle has a nice design, the idea is not bad. You just need to brain on how to use it, at which moment, at least let the game go. The replicant on the other hand is just a bullshit unit "look my unit arsenal is actually so weak and incomplete that i will borrow your unit to fix the shit out". | ||
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imareaver3
United States906 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:25 Goshdarnit wrote: No phoenix in HoTS. It was removed from stargate options in video. Doesn't mean anything. If it was removed, they would have said so. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:13 ohampatu wrote: Exactly. Just picture this: Your observer spots the terran army moving to the middle of map, possibly checking the xel'naga before pushing. You see this, and use 2 oracles at his main and natural to shut down the mining. Terran is going to have be super defensive and play smart because good oracle play will just own. Multitasking and good effective apm will be rewarded. And then the Terran attacks with his army and just rolls you over because you spent 150 gas on a Stargate, and then 400 gas on two Oracles which do jack shit in an actual engagement. As is, Phoenix openers lose to 2 base Terran all-ins, because the Phoenix simply don't justify their cost in straight-up battles. Unless Protoss receives a huge defenders' advantage (which we have yet to see), you won't see Oracles until the lategame for the very same reason, they're really expensive and do nothing to help you not die. Seeing as the Protoss problem was harass being too expensive and forcing too much of a commitment to a particular tech tree, I can't see how adding an expensive, gimmicky unit to the most gimmicky Protoss tech branch (Stargate) is going to help things. Why not buff the Phoenix instead? It serves a similar function, and can actually kill stuff. | ||
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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
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Fungal Growth
United States434 Posts
Hopefully the utility of armor upgrades now (as well as factories) scare terran away from mass bio which is soo boring. | ||
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unsaintly
Germany687 Posts
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dump
Japan514 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:25 Goshdarnit wrote: No phoenix in HoTS. It was removed from stargate options in video. I only heard they removed carriers and motherships. Nothing about phoenix. | ||
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Woizit
801 Posts
On October 23 2011 01:39 s3183529 wrote: Seems like it. They try to go for all the fancy, cool-looking stuff, but does not seem to make a lot of sense. The BW expansion for SC1 was EPIC, they did not change too much, but all the units seem to be very appropriate. This expansion seems to be a more flamboyant kind of thing. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to be the case for now. I think it's partly because of the Starcraft lore. I mean, looking through the BW Protoss units, you get the feel that it's a race splited into 2 factions uniting in war. This is heavily contrasted by how generic the Terran army seems and how the Terrans kept going at each other's throats while the Zerg were infesting them. It showed how much the Protoss went to set aside the differences between themselves, and you can easily identify which part of the army belongs to which faction. In WoL, Protoss had huge changes, which wasn't too bad, but the storyline behind it was lacking. Now that HOTS seems to switch around the units again, the units really start to seem disconnected to the Protoss lore itself. I mean from BW > WoL > HOTS, it looks to me as if Terran became cool, the Zerg evolved... and the Protoss just simply feel like mad scientists experimenting around. | ||
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Deleted User 108965
1096 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:25 Goshdarnit wrote: No phoenix in HoTS. It was removed from stargate options in video. they definitely showed phoenix not only as an option to build out of a stargate but in pictures it is being used in conjunction with some of the new units | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:26 imareaver3 wrote: I wouldn't go that far--I think that it might be useful to get OC's instead of probes in the uber-late game, kinda like Terran occasionally does now. It's a 350/200 (450/200 if you count the supply depot) investment to get the requisite tech to build OC's, which isn't that large late-game. And the extra supply can be critical on a large map with lots of bases to mule. Replicant costs 200/200. That gets you the scv. No you build a CC. So thats 400. So were up to 600/200. Add another 100 for the supply. Add 150 for the rax. We are now up to 850/200. Make the OC (thats 150 right?). We are now up to 1000/200. Or do you want an engi bay? Do you see how its unrealistic that this could be used in any competitive game unless you are 10x better than your opponent? | ||
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Hebeejeebies
United States18 Posts
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On October 22 2011 12:38 OffCuts wrote: Yer thought that was kinda random. I quit Protoss cuz they didnt have alot of options lol. I was hoping that - the phoenix got an upgrade which gave them some aoe... which was the new unit - carriers got an ability thingy of some sort - warp prism got looked at - they got something to help them on flanks/in smaller engagements - Zealots got uber nerfed (against terran) O well. One of those came true. From watching the panel, it seems that Blizzard is using the Oracle to address the notion that toss units have to be in a ball to be effective. I really do like the way that this unit will at least make the enemy sensitive to the threat of harass And spores and turrets aren't necessarily enough to shut it down as it can phase them out. That said, depending on the unit speed, it might be easily sniped by vikings--that's the current problem I have using warp prisms vs T. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:27 Toadvine wrote: And then the Terran attacks with his army and just rolls you over because you spent 150 gas on a Stargate, and then 400 gas on two Oracles which do jack shit in an actual engagement. Please. You don't know how Oracle builds will play out in terms of cost, time and composition, none of us do. It'll take months of play to see what effect it will really have. Dismissing it as impossible because your half baked theorycrafting says it won't work is really jumping the gun. Imagine another instance where late game a terran drops 20 mules onto a gold base. You block his minerals and while he is pulling back some of his army to deal with it the timer on his mules is ticking down and going to waste. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
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Chloroplaste
France281 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bL06m.jpg) Hello everyone, What do you think of new terran units from a design point of view? I'm not really found of it and I prefer the firebat and goliath style... | ||
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