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New HotS Units/Abilities in Blizzcon - Page 278

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danakaz
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark84 Posts
October 22 2011 09:08 GMT
#5541
These new units make me a little concerned that they are trying to make Starcraft 2 more like Warcraft 3. Too many weird abilities. And even though I'm a protoss player, I don't like the mass recall ability. And I have a hard time seeing the competitive usage of the replicant, it seems to reliant on what your opponent builds.
AnalThermometer
Profile Joined February 2011
Vatican City State334 Posts
October 22 2011 09:10 GMT
#5542
The battle hellion is giving me nightmares. I don't see myself ever fast expanding against Terran in the expansion when they can open hellion/marauder, torch some workers, then transform and take on your zealot + stalker composition with what is basically firebat + marauder while also healing the firebats with SCVs. Robo first for me I think.
Arko.is
Profile Joined March 2011
Iceland35 Posts
October 22 2011 09:11 GMT
#5543
My foresight on the implementation of the new HOTS units.

Tempest : Looks good, that's about it. We will probably never see it used since it really only has one job and people just won't make enough mutas, phoenix or vikings to make them worth it since they know they do exist.

Replicant : Sounds good on paper. Dark Archon did also. Same thing here it just won't be used cause of it's cost. Rarely you will see someone take medvacs to heal/drop. You might see someone steal an early tank if they actually start with 3/3 upgrades. But if the unit is stuck at 0/0 it's pretty pointless. If it does get the upgrades and maybe teaches you them if you steal protoss units like dark archons do. It might be worth it to steal upgrades from opponent instead of upgrading them self's. Dark archon even did cost about the same, had more spells and it STOLE the unit. So it was also a negative on the opponent side. And you could reuse him. Still it only rarely got used. Usually for it's maelstorm ability combined with storm.

Oracle : This unit will likely be used whenever toss goes stargate tech. It sounds interesting. Would like to see it having detection so protoss doesn't have to make a robo only for observers since you already will know a lot what is going on with this unit. Most don't risk autoloss from a hidden starport or dark shrine on the map.

Nexus : The temp cannon is decent but having it anti light units only is kind of weird? The mass recall for only 75 energy will make protoss pokes insanely safe. Zergs will probably cry a lot about it when they get their "perfect" surround and poof the army vanishes.

Warhound : This unit will be really really really hard for blizzard to balance. This units is so all around good unit. This is like a stalker that doesn't have to run. It will likely need some more weaknesses then it now has.

Battle Hellion : Think it is more for looks and yeah probably has some functions in late game. Might end up being one of those upgrades that the commentators check to see if the terran forgot to get it cause they often forget this minor upgrade before the big battle.

Shredder : Lurker on crack? If terran actually had this technology why wouldn't they use it for something other then stationary defense. AE doommachine that does 20 dps to air and ground in 360 degrees. This will obviously be used and probably one big candidate for the replicators unless terran will be only using mech which is quite likely. Also why would blizzard think terran was the race that needed stationary defense the most? Planetary fortress,tanks,fast moving bio army with stim. This actually sounds more like some unit protoss would want. Or better yet just give zerg it in the form of a lurker.

Viper : Flying defiler meets corsair that can now pull the most important units into snipe range of the now fast moving hydralisk. Seriously ? Hydralisks and Viper combos are going to be insane. You can put everything else at 1 range and hydralisks will kill it in no time with their high dps. And every good counter to the hydralisk can just be pulled out. Even high templars won't be able to storm from under the blinding spell. To add on you could in theory fungal them also so they can't move while being blinded. Like seriously!! ? Another use : Attack with broodlords, if anything gets close to attacking them blind the area. Can be done from only flyable area to top it off

Swarm host : Poor mans lurker I guess. This unit will probably need a lot of babysitting if used. I doubt it will be any main focus of the zerg since it is hive tech unit. Charging Ultralisks with ae stuns, Broodlords, Fast hydras with spell support will most likely be higher candidates to finish off some unlucky foe.

Overseer Gone : Actually a good thing. Will make it more of an effort on zerg part to get detection. They won't just have it automatically in 10 sec pretty much anywhere on the map.

Corruptors mining : Like what.. why.. this unit is so stupid as is. It is like the tempest. Has just one very specific job and after that it is just boring... And how does it make 1m per 1hp from buildings that have many times their mineral cost in hps? And it is harvesting shields too? This is like something silly I would think of while drunk and suggest as a joke. Like just remove this unit already and make something more "useful" that can handle the same job. But then again hydras will be used again so this will have few jobs other then battlecruiser sniping.

If someone read over this all they might think I'm just being pissed off but I really am not. When I started writing this I was more optimistic about the expansion but after summing this all up I see that this needs A LOT of work from blizzard.
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 09:20:49
October 22 2011 09:15 GMT
#5544
On October 22 2011 17:05 dump wrote:
Yeahhh... except EMP doesn't do jack against terran, and 200/200/4 infestors is kind of ridiculous.


Snipe would like to have a word with you. Oops, you're dead.

IMHO, if Blizzard will have to figure out what will replicated spellcasters have, max energy would be fair to compensate for costs, 200/200 4supply; being able to replicate and snipe/Yamato/FG/IT/Storm/etc immediately upon replicating seems fair for the cost.

Adding 4 ghosts with only upgrades (cloak and +25MP) means 540 "free" damage to bio.
Quite frankly I see replicating into either Vikings or medivacs being more useful.

IMO this adds greater flexibility to Protoss armies now.
Cauterize the area
ProxyKnoxy
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2576 Posts
October 22 2011 09:16 GMT
#5545
You can move banelings while burrowed?...v Not a fan of that tbh..
Mass recalls for 75 energy on Nexus sounds ridiculously OP mostly in late game and I play toss... you can destroy their whole production with no losses
Why didn't they just remove the thor -_-

Overall I'm not hugely optimistic. Blizzards approach seems to be to make everything more powerful.. hoped they would have removed more units aswell
"Zealot try give mariners high five. Mariners not like high five and try hide and shoot zealot"
Knap4life
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Slovenia333 Posts
October 22 2011 09:17 GMT
#5546
Lots of things will be changed or removed before this game comes out , the replicator thing looks op in my opinion.
Daray
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
6006 Posts
October 22 2011 09:19 GMT
#5547
On October 22 2011 18:17 Knap4life wrote:
Lots of things will be changed or removed before this game comes out , the replicator thing looks op in my opinion.


Really? Doesn't seem very good for the cost
Bobble
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia1493 Posts
October 22 2011 09:19 GMT
#5548
On October 22 2011 18:17 Knap4life wrote:
Lots of things will be changed or removed before this game comes out , the replicator thing looks op in my opinion.


I'm sorry but I have to ask how? I can't think of any real good use for it. Maybe becoming infestors or tanks, but thats about it.
Zambozo
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom63 Posts
October 22 2011 09:21 GMT
#5549
Corrosive
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3741 Posts
October 22 2011 09:22 GMT
#5550
Blink + Nexus recall = op.

and im protoss.

i think blizzard is making way too many changes. adding new units is fine but they are taking away a bunch and changing some and changing things that people have been getting used to for more than a year. like a totally different game. im not complaining yet but i dont know if its a good idea.
Maruprime.
AnalThermometer
Profile Joined February 2011
Vatican City State334 Posts
October 22 2011 09:23 GMT
#5551
On October 22 2011 18:19 Bobble wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 18:17 Knap4life wrote:
Lots of things will be changed or removed before this game comes out , the replicator thing looks op in my opinion.


I'm sorry but I have to ask how? I can't think of any real good use for it. Maybe becoming infestors or tanks, but thats about it.


If it comes with the unit upgrades it could be slightly OP. Imagine Terran opens Banshee without cloak and you replicate it, you now have a better banshee than the Terran does because you get free cloak. Replicate a Raven? Free seeker missile, your Raven is now better than the Terran's.
dump
Profile Joined August 2010
Japan514 Posts
October 22 2011 09:24 GMT
#5552
On October 22 2011 18:15 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 17:05 dump wrote:
Yeahhh... except EMP doesn't do jack against terran, and 200/200/4 infestors is kind of ridiculous.


Snipe would like to have a word with you. Oops, you're dead.

IMHO, if Blizzard will have to figure out what will replicated spellcasters have, max energy would be fair to compensate for costs, 200/200 4supply; being able to replicate and snipe/Yamato/FG/IT/Storm/etc immediately upon replicating seems fair for the cost.

Adding 4 ghosts with only upgrades (cloak and +25MP) means 540 "free" damage to bio.
Quite frankly I see replicating into either Vikings or medivacs being more useful.

IMO this adds greater flexibility to Protoss armies now.


Snipe doesn't affect mech, and ghosts I can already deal with similarly with feedback, though feedback is marginally harder to use than snipe...

I don't want to use a replicant just to snipe marines and marauders.
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
October 22 2011 09:24 GMT
#5553
On October 22 2011 18:19 Bobble wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 18:17 Knap4life wrote:
Lots of things will be changed or removed before this game comes out , the replicator thing looks op in my opinion.


I'm sorry but I have to ask how? I can't think of any real good use for it. Maybe becoming infestors or tanks, but thats about it.


You forgot Medivacs and Ravens fully upgraded with at least 75MP, Ultralisks and Broodlords. Remember they're still in HotS. Basically, replicators can make end game for Protoss biased.
Not that I'm complaining since lore wise they are the oldest and most advanced race.
Cauterize the area
ProxyKnoxy
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2576 Posts
October 22 2011 09:24 GMT
#5554
On October 22 2011 18:19 Bobble wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 18:17 Knap4life wrote:
Lots of things will be changed or removed before this game comes out , the replicator thing looks op in my opinion.


I'm sorry but I have to ask how? I can't think of any real good use for it. Maybe becoming infestors or tanks, but thats about it.


Did you watch the video? They turned into like 5 tanks. I can see it being op in some situations
"Zealot try give mariners high five. Mariners not like high five and try hide and shoot zealot"
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
October 22 2011 09:27 GMT
#5555
On October 22 2011 18:24 dump wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 18:15 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On October 22 2011 17:05 dump wrote:
Yeahhh... except EMP doesn't do jack against terran, and 200/200/4 infestors is kind of ridiculous.


Snipe would like to have a word with you. Oops, you're dead.

IMHO, if Blizzard will have to figure out what will replicated spellcasters have, max energy would be fair to compensate for costs, 200/200 4supply; being able to replicate and snipe/Yamato/FG/IT/Storm/etc immediately upon replicating seems fair for the cost.

Adding 4 ghosts with only upgrades (cloak and +25MP) means 540 "free" damage to bio.
Quite frankly I see replicating into either Vikings or medivacs being more useful.

IMO this adds greater flexibility to Protoss armies now.


Snipe doesn't affect mech, and ghosts I can already deal with similarly with feedback, though feedback is marginally harder to use than snipe...

I don't want to use a replicant just to snipe marines and marauders.


Why would Terran even go Mech in TvP in the first place? It's suicide unless T only moves out at 12min with 16 Siege tanks. By then the Toss would have a 200/200 death ball already..
Cauterize the area
Daray
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
6006 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 09:28:49
October 22 2011 09:27 GMT
#5556
On October 22 2011 18:24 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 18:19 Bobble wrote:
On October 22 2011 18:17 Knap4life wrote:
Lots of things will be changed or removed before this game comes out , the replicator thing looks op in my opinion.


I'm sorry but I have to ask how? I can't think of any real good use for it. Maybe becoming infestors or tanks, but thats about it.


Did you watch the video? They turned into like 5 tanks. I can see it being op in some situations


For 200/200/4 turning into 5 tanks isn't that amazing. Replicators come from robo? Producing only replicators from robo doesn't sound too appealing.

I guess banshee and raven are good units to replicate. You can't replicate massives.
Bobble
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia1493 Posts
October 22 2011 09:28 GMT
#5557
On October 22 2011 18:24 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 18:19 Bobble wrote:
On October 22 2011 18:17 Knap4life wrote:
Lots of things will be changed or removed before this game comes out , the replicator thing looks op in my opinion.


I'm sorry but I have to ask how? I can't think of any real good use for it. Maybe becoming infestors or tanks, but thats about it.


Did you watch the video? They turned into like 5 tanks. I can see it being op in some situations


well, I forgot that some units are worth replicating with thier upgrades, but hell, for 1000/1000, they should create an OP situation in 5 tanks.
dump
Profile Joined August 2010
Japan514 Posts
October 22 2011 09:28 GMT
#5558
On October 22 2011 18:24 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 18:19 Bobble wrote:
On October 22 2011 18:17 Knap4life wrote:
Lots of things will be changed or removed before this game comes out , the replicator thing looks op in my opinion.


I'm sorry but I have to ask how? I can't think of any real good use for it. Maybe becoming infestors or tanks, but thats about it.


You forgot Medivacs and Ravens fully upgraded with at least 75MP, Ultralisks and Broodlords. Remember they're still in HotS. Basically, replicators can make end game for Protoss biased.
Not that I'm complaining since lore wise they are the oldest and most advanced race.


You can't replicate massive units.

The only biological units protoss have are templars and zealots, so medivacs are for the most part 200/200/400 warp prisms that can't warp in. Ravens -- maybe.

Also I don't like that this is yet another robotics facility unit. I'm really tired of everything being robo tech.
sagefreke
Profile Joined August 2010
United States241 Posts
October 22 2011 09:28 GMT
#5559
As a Zerg player I'm very happy with this upcoming expansion.

Ultralisks are going to become THE late game unit for Zerg with that blink/burrow ability being able to get inbetween multiple units and get in front of pesky lings and other Ultras to attack.

Burrow moving banelings? Fuck this is going to make Terrans extra cautious to move out now without detection or mass scanning across the map.

Hydralisks are finally getting what everyone wanted. A speed upgrade. This means they won't be so goddamn reliant on creep to be effective. I would love to see if Hydras can be useful in ZvT next expansion. Also in combination with the Viper, they might actually be useful against Collossus now. Which brings me to....

Viper: Favorite unit to be added. Adds so much versatility with the pull, as well as disruption web. In combination with Infestors I can see really great synergy with this unit. However, the fact that this is now Zerg's only detector unit and it must be gotten from the spire makes it worrisome. Hopefully Blizzard will just add a lair tech upgrade to turn all overlords into detectors otherwise DTs and Cloaked Banshees can be a problem early on unless spores are gotten. Still I feel that having to spend 200/200 just to even have the opportunity to get detection is a bit much. There's no way Blizzard will make the Viper the only detector unit.

I can see the Swarm Host being good for offensive attacks. Does anybody know if they do any projectile damage like the Broodlord or is their DPS based solely on the damage their critters do? Also did anybody happen to catch what their range was? Judging by the video it only looked like range 5 at most.

All in all I'm very happy about the first look at the new units. I got just about everything I hoped for and more...

Still can't get over how sick burrow moving banelings are going to be.
yo yo yo
dump
Profile Joined August 2010
Japan514 Posts
October 22 2011 09:30 GMT
#5560
On October 22 2011 18:27 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 18:24 dump wrote:
On October 22 2011 18:15 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On October 22 2011 17:05 dump wrote:
Yeahhh... except EMP doesn't do jack against terran, and 200/200/4 infestors is kind of ridiculous.


Snipe would like to have a word with you. Oops, you're dead.

IMHO, if Blizzard will have to figure out what will replicated spellcasters have, max energy would be fair to compensate for costs, 200/200 4supply; being able to replicate and snipe/Yamato/FG/IT/Storm/etc immediately upon replicating seems fair for the cost.

Adding 4 ghosts with only upgrades (cloak and +25MP) means 540 "free" damage to bio.
Quite frankly I see replicating into either Vikings or medivacs being more useful.

IMO this adds greater flexibility to Protoss armies now.


Snipe doesn't affect mech, and ghosts I can already deal with similarly with feedback, though feedback is marginally harder to use than snipe...

I don't want to use a replicant just to snipe marines and marauders.


Why would Terran even go Mech in TvP in the first place? It's suicide unless T only moves out at 12min with 16 Siege tanks. By then the Toss would have a 200/200 death ball already..


I don't understand what your point is then. Why did you suggest sniping with replicants?
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