On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
yea i agree. Had hopes it would spit them out like beach balls or send then out underground but no such luck >BD.
On October 22 2011 18:46 Alpina wrote: I think most of the changes are just awesome. What I don't like though:
1. Mass recall - just for 75 energy escaping from anywhere in the map is just OP. Protoss going to use this all the time instead of CB.
2. Shredder - terran already had PFs which are nearly invincible, bunkers, tanks, do they realy need one more strong defense unit? This unit is something zerg would like to have considering that zerg's defense is worst of all 3 races.
3. Swarm Host - very nice idea, but I just feel it's going to be too weak. Imagine I burrow few of them in my expansion to defend. Terran makes drop of 8 marines, Swarm host starts to spawn units, and I imagine 8 stimmed marines gonna overpower those 2 Swarm hosts with absolutelly no problem. Especially cause those units spawn with very low rate.
And btw burrowed Swarm host is invisible or not for enemy?
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
It's to stop turtlers. It can be balanced between now and release and it is a very swarmy idea. It's perfect. Did you see the video of it being used in it's current state? It forces people who are turtling to move way forward to take it out as the broodling things can travel long distances and that's when you can push in with your zerg force. It forces an unsiege too.
EDIT: Every swarm lord broodling being shot is one less either siege fire or marine attack on your units.
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
It's to stop turtlers. It can be balanced between now and release and it is a very swarmy idea. It's perfect. Did you see the video of it being used in it's current state? It forces people who are turtling to move way forward to take it out as the broodling things can travel long distances and that's when you can push in with your zerg force. It forces an unsiege too.
it rallies a tight nit group of 90 hp MELEE units every 15 sec. How can this(Pretty sure its a hive tech unit) ever break turtles or force an unsiege better than the Viper??
EDIT: Every swarm lord broodling being shot is one less either siege fire or marine attack on your units.
Except the swarm lord COSTS SUPPLY and money. Its a unit that spawns itself every 15 sec to tank about the same as two extra roaches.
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
Can anyone explains how it actually works? I'm having a hard time seeing how it's useful... unless the locusts are immune to splash damage they'll just be siege-tank fodder.
If it only spawns 2 units every 15 seconds that deals 16 damage, it's way, way worse than the brood lord, or am I missing something?
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
It's to stop turtlers. It can be balanced between now and release and it is a very swarmy idea. It's perfect. Did you see the video of it being used in it's current state? It forces people who are turtling to move way forward to take it out as the broodling things can travel long distances and that's when you can push in with your zerg force. It forces an unsiege too.
EDIT: Every swarm lord broodling being shot is one less either siege fire or marine attack on your units.
I think we have enough meat sheilds to be quite honest, now I want some DPS.
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
It's to stop turtlers. It can be balanced between now and release and it is a very swarmy idea. It's perfect. Did you see the video of it being used in it's current state? It forces people who are turtling to move way forward to take it out as the broodling things can travel long distances and that's when you can push in with your zerg force. It forces an unsiege too.
EDIT: Every swarm lord broodling being shot is one less either siege fire or marine attack on your units.
I think we have enough meat sheilds to be quite honest, now I want some DPS.
Hydra does sick DPS. Ultra does sick DPS and even more now it has the charge underground, Broodlings from Broodlords do quite good DPS and Fungal is some of the highest DPS in the game isn't it?
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
Can anyone explains how it actually works? I'm having a hard time seeing how it's useful... unless the locusts are immune to splash damage they'll just be siege-tank fodder.
If it only spawns 2 units every 15 seconds that deals 16 damage, it's way, way worse than the brood lord, or am I missing something?
Its just retarded seriously, everyone thinks its the lurker but it isnt.
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
It's to stop turtlers. It can be balanced between now and release and it is a very swarmy idea. It's perfect. Did you see the video of it being used in it's current state? It forces people who are turtling to move way forward to take it out as the broodling things can travel long distances and that's when you can push in with your zerg force. It forces an unsiege too.
it rallies a tight nit group of 90 hp MELEE units every 15 sec. How can this(hive tech unit) ever break turtles or force an unsiege better than the Viper??
The specific numbers can be tweaked you know. Stop complaining about balance of something that is not even in beta. Discussing the design/idea around a unit makes sense, talking about specific numbers does not; the design is of the Swarm Host is that of a siege unit, which zergs have wanted for a while. Why bitch and moan about it?
Besides, units people have been asking for in HotS: carriers that are microable like in bw, arbiters, reavers, dragoons/stalker being as good as in bw with warpgate removed, lurkers, defilers, corsairs, spider mines, goliaths...why the hell don't you just play bw if you want to use the exact units from that game?
Toss units seem really underwhelming, I'm pretty disappointed with the unveiling...
The tempest seems like it has such a small niche despite it being the most costly and highest tier unit for protoss. Seems like you'd have to deal with a muta/air anyway before you could even access tempests, much less afford them and wait through their build time for a necessary number to be built.
Replicants can't duplicate massive units, the opponent has to have built the unit already and you need vision of it, and tier 1 units would be effectively useless to make. All in all it's uses seem limited given that they cost 200/200 each and they occupy needed time from the robo which is already a critical unit producing structure. It's an interesting unit, but seems gimmicky in a final evaluation.
The oracle could be good, but it doesn't seem that great either. Depending on the duration and hit-points allotted to the mineral forcefield spell, it could be really effective or just a minor annoyance. Also, harassment options for the other races such as infestors, zerg units in a run-by, banshees, mutalisks, drops for terran, can all serve other useful functions outside of base harassment and thus maintain their usefulness throughout the game, whereas the oracle seems like it would lose effectiveness in harassing bases as the game progressed, given increased army size and in base fortifications, and essentially become a deadweight unit since it serves no other purpose.
I'm very curious about how the Swarm Host plays as well. Superficially it looks like a blatant attempt to give Zerg something like the lurker, but at the same time trying to force it and make something "new". I don't get it, why don't you just give us the lurker back?
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
It's to stop turtlers. It can be balanced between now and release and it is a very swarmy idea. It's perfect. Did you see the video of it being used in it's current state? It forces people who are turtling to move way forward to take it out as the broodling things can travel long distances and that's when you can push in with your zerg force. It forces an unsiege too.
EDIT: Every swarm lord broodling being shot is one less either siege fire or marine attack on your units.
I think we have enough meat sheilds to be quite honest, now I want some DPS.
Hydra does sick DPS. Ultra does sick DPS and even more now it has the charge underground, Broodlings from Broodlords do quite good DPS and Fungal is some of the highest DPS in the game isn't it?
Compared to siege tanks and marines, these are all shitty DPS. Also, you cant get in range of siege tanks to do this DPS most of the time.
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
Can anyone explains how it actually works? I'm having a hard time seeing how it's useful... unless the locusts are immune to splash damage they'll just be siege-tank fodder.
If it only spawns 2 units every 15 seconds that deals 16 damage, it's way, way worse than the brood lord, or am I missing something?
But a broodlord needs to attack to summon units and they don't last very long. This unit is also very good at defending expansions. Leave a couple at the front of an expansion and you have a constantly spawning mini army to help defend.
Lurkers would just be too powerful in SC2. Terran already has enough problems with banelings without lurkers as well.
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
It's to stop turtlers. It can be balanced between now and release and it is a very swarmy idea. It's perfect. Did you see the video of it being used in it's current state? It forces people who are turtling to move way forward to take it out as the broodling things can travel long distances and that's when you can push in with your zerg force. It forces an unsiege too.
it rallies a tight nit group of 90 hp MELEE units every 15 sec. How can this(Pretty sure its a hive tech unit) ever break turtles or force an unsiege better than the Viper??
EDIT: Every swarm lord broodling being shot is one less either siege fire or marine attack on your units.
Except the swarm lord COSTS SUPPLY and money. Its a unit that spawns itself every 15 sec to tank about the same as two extra roaches.
Is it actually hive tech? all i heard is you need an infestation pit, this unit seems very interesting to me, it costs 200 min/100 gas as of now which is great for zerg, finally a way to get rid of excess minerals, if you manage to get out a good number of them it would be an awesome way to actually do some straight up damage to terran, combine this with fungals to stop any kind of bio from getting too close and i think it has potential. The viper looks way too expensive to mass and i would disfavor it for something like being aggressive and breaking a siege line.
On October 22 2011 18:45 pStar wrote: I really like all these changes that blizzard have made, sure they may actually seem a bit gimmicky but I think they will improve the quality of the games that SC2 produces.
To be honest I think that these changes have massively changed the micro concept of the game which a lot of people where complaining about. The oracle's ability for stopping mining is one of them, its really cool that if micro correctly a base or all of the bases can be stopped from mining. Another example swarm host, I like the way that they are turning zerg into a more positional race, for example you use the swarm host to eliminate the army before pushing up further and destroying the next army, it will be quite interesting to see the TvZ mechanics now.
Siege Tank v Swarm Host :D
Let me tell you how that will go. Swarm host spawns 2 retarded units, Terran used scan, Swarm host fainted.
Swarm host isn't meant to be used by itself. If you have many of them and stagger when they are burrowed, you could create an endless wave of locusts. And with 90 HP each and the DPS of an Ultralisk, the locusts can't be ignored.
EPT
zerg run by ? not this time 
