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On October 22 2011 19:08 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:00 nt-rAven wrote:
swarm host solves a lot of prolems for zerg, its a defensive unit, u have mobile units and u just gained an imobile unit, you are thinking of it as a pushing roll, and it can serve in that way kind of like spine crawler push from nestea, but im quite sure toss now and terran will drop a lot vs zerg and swarm host (kind of like dt vs drops) will be very good... its a boost to your race~ I don't know how I feel about it, because it swawns only every 25 secs. it's not really area control, how would you use it defensively? every army will just stomp over some zergminizealots...
It could be used as a way to force an opponent to constantly keep defense at certain locations. It keeps them contained to some extent.
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Way too many ideas borrowed from WC3. Just off of my memory that Swarm host is like Goblin Tinker's Pocket Factory, and the Corruptor siphoning is like Orc Pillage upgrade (hit enemy building -> make money).
No idea how they're going to balance the replicant or viper's death grip. They all seem like WC3 hero abilities.
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On October 22 2011 19:01 doubled wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 18:54 Klive5ive wrote:On October 22 2011 18:51 doubled wrote:On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote:
Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS. Can anyone explains how it actually works? I'm having a hard time seeing how it's useful... unless the locusts are immune to splash damage they'll just be siege-tank fodder. If it only spawns 2 units every 15 seconds that deals 16 damage, it's way, way worse than the brood lord, or am I missing something? But a broodlord needs to attack to summon units and they don't last very long. This unit is also very good at defending expansions. Leave a couple at the front of an expansion and you have a constantly spawning mini army to help defend. Lurkers would just be too powerful in SC2. Terran already has enough problems with banelings without lurkers as well. So it's the range that is beneficial? How long do the units last, 15 seconds?
Unless you had a huge number of them, lurkers would get owned by scan + stimmed marauders. Stimmed marauders already own siege tanks in small numbers.
Everyone who brings up the lurker keeps thinking Zerg needs a unit that can kill marines better. That's not what the lurker was for really for. The lurker was there to control space = make it costly to engage head on + allow zerg to push offensively.
The swarm lord is a siege unit. Used in conjunction with the rest of the Zerg army, a siege unit is far superior to just a space controlling unit like the lurker. A siege unit can control space, plus it brings the ability to attack/defend from super long ranges.
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So blink stalker colossi tempests will own MMM/Vikings now? Will you need Goliaths against that?
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On October 22 2011 19:04 TRAP[yoo] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:02 Pixel. wrote:On October 22 2011 18:58 opFa wrote:
seriously ? after seeing that trailer i am thinking about quitting starcraft :/ How come ? Think the new units will make the game way better. Most units that they added where units where we asking for all the time. is that so? i dont get some of the new concepts like the tempest. it looks like it has ONE purpose and thats it
Brotoss, Tempests are flying Thors...
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On October 22 2011 19:07 cBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:06 doubled wrote:On October 22 2011 19:05 cBlue wrote:
I think the replicator will be interesting in PvP. If one player takes the colossi route the other one can go replicators and just replicate the colossi without having the tech... but with Thermal Lance.
You can't replicate massive units = no replicated colossi. uhhh forgot about that... than PvP will stay lame :/ btw: If you replicate a ghost will you be able to launch a nuke without academy? :D
not if you phase shift their robo facility or robo support bay... oracle going to be crucial
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On October 22 2011 19:07 Qikz wrote:Well many of the new units do AOE which force more micro to split. Also see the viper's gas cloud thing which means clumped stuff is going to get totally stopped. Show nested quote +Has anyone noticed that as it stands Zerg has no means of dealing with early DTs or Banshees? Spore crawlers like they do now and also the viper is lair tech.
Good luck taking 3rd with spore crawlers and to get to mobile detection you will now have to make lair, build spire/viper's den, make viper and cast the spell.
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On October 22 2011 18:36 freestalker wrote:
Now I realized an ultimate scheme in this.. In WoL, Toss has a superunit. In HotS, terran has a superunit. That means in the last expansion ZERG will have a superunit and it will be there forever! AH AH!
I think in the last expension every Race will have a super unit  and the Mothership returns
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United Kingdom12053 Posts
On October 22 2011 19:16 habermas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:07 Qikz wrote:7) Would have been nice to see something done about unit clumping Well many of the new units do AOE which force more micro to split. Also see the viper's gas cloud thing which means clumped stuff is going to get totally stopped. Has anyone noticed that as it stands Zerg has no means of dealing with early DTs or Banshees? Spore crawlers like they do now and also the viper is lair tech. Good luck taking 3rd with spore crawlers and to get to mobile detection you will now have to make lair, build spire/viper's den, make viper and cast the spell.
Wasn't overseers a lair thing? Also Blizzard said it's just the lair you need for a viper.
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On October 22 2011 19:15 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:04 TRAP[yoo] wrote:On October 22 2011 19:02 Pixel. wrote:On October 22 2011 18:58 opFa wrote:
seriously ? after seeing that trailer i am thinking about quitting starcraft :/ How come ? Think the new units will make the game way better. Most units that they added where units where we asking for all the time. is that so? i dont get some of the new concepts like the tempest. it looks like it has ONE purpose and thats it Brotoss, Tempests are flying Thors...
i know that its too early to make conclusions but the only thing they showed to us was their aoe attack
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On October 22 2011 19:18 TRAP[yoo] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:15 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On October 22 2011 19:04 TRAP[yoo] wrote:On October 22 2011 19:02 Pixel. wrote:On October 22 2011 18:58 opFa wrote:
seriously ? after seeing that trailer i am thinking about quitting starcraft :/ How come ? Think the new units will make the game way better. Most units that they added where units where we asking for all the time. is that so? i dont get some of the new concepts like the tempest. it looks like it has ONE purpose and thats it Brotoss, Tempests are flying Thors... i know that its too early to make conclusions but the only thing they showed to us was their aoe attack
They also showed the vs building attack. So i guess it should be able to ground units as well.
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On October 22 2011 19:15 secretary bird wrote:
So blink stalker colossi tempests will own MMM/Vikings now? Will you need Goliaths against that?
Vikings are armored, Temptest does extra dmg versus light units. Trying to take out vikings or corruptors with temptest would be like trying to take out 10 ultralisks with psi-storm?
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On October 22 2011 19:18 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:16 habermas wrote:On October 22 2011 19:07 Qikz wrote:7) Would have been nice to see something done about unit clumping Well many of the new units do AOE which force more micro to split. Also see the viper's gas cloud thing which means clumped stuff is going to get totally stopped. Has anyone noticed that as it stands Zerg has no means of dealing with early DTs or Banshees? Spore crawlers like they do now and also the viper is lair tech. Good luck taking 3rd with spore crawlers and to get to mobile detection you will now have to make lair, build spire/viper's den, make viper and cast the spell. Wasn't overseers a lair thing? Also Blizzard said it's just the lair you need for a viper.
It requires spire.
Zerg 2 base spire timing is up alot later than cloaked banshee or dt`s.
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Guys ... where can i see the new units in action.... (not the trailler)...?
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On October 22 2011 19:08 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:00 nt-rAven wrote:
swarm host solves a lot of prolems for zerg, its a defensive unit, u have mobile units and u just gained an imobile unit, you are thinking of it as a pushing roll, and it can serve in that way kind of like spine crawler push from nestea, but im quite sure toss now and terran will drop a lot vs zerg and swarm host (kind of like dt vs drops) will be very good... its a boost to your race~ I don't know how I feel about it, because it swawns only every 25 secs. it's not really area control, how would you use it defensively? every army will just stomp over some zergminizealots...
Any unit, when by itself, will get quickly overrun by a large mass of units. But what happens when you mass a ton of that unit?
A zergling takes 24 seconds to spawn. Pretty comparable to the locust spawn time. Let's say a each locust is about as good as 3 zerglings. A single swarm host would basically give you non-stop production of 6 zerglings. Not a big threat. What happens if you have to 5 swarm lords? Then you have non-stop production of 30 zerglings -- which is a far bigger threat. And think about how cost-effective zerg armies could be.
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On October 22 2011 19:13 dookudooku wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:01 doubled wrote:On October 22 2011 18:54 Klive5ive wrote:On October 22 2011 18:51 doubled wrote:On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote:
Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS. Can anyone explains how it actually works? I'm having a hard time seeing how it's useful... unless the locusts are immune to splash damage they'll just be siege-tank fodder. If it only spawns 2 units every 15 seconds that deals 16 damage, it's way, way worse than the brood lord, or am I missing something? But a broodlord needs to attack to summon units and they don't last very long. This unit is also very good at defending expansions. Leave a couple at the front of an expansion and you have a constantly spawning mini army to help defend. Lurkers would just be too powerful in SC2. Terran already has enough problems with banelings without lurkers as well. So it's the range that is beneficial? How long do the units last, 15 seconds? Unless you had a huge number of them, lurkers would get owned by scan + stimmed marauders. Stimmed marauders already own siege tanks in small numbers. Everyone who brings up the lurker keeps thinking Zerg needs a unit that can kill marines better. That's not what the lurker was for really for. The lurker was there to control space = make it costly to engage head on + allow zerg to push offensively. The swarm lord is a siege unit. Used in conjunction with the rest of the Zerg army, a siege unit is far superior to just a space controlling unit like the lurker. A siege unit can control space, plus it brings the ability to attack/defend from super long ranges.
The lurker would defend choke points far better than this swarm lord ever will, the swarm lord is just another part of the blob warfare that we already have. It will NOT be strong on it's own since it needs cover. It's just a burrowed broodlord.
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Haha :D Such a bummer. SC2 has been miserable since the release and will still be after HotS. I enjoy this!
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warhound looks stupid. i would rather have something more like a goliath...instead we get something like a mix between one of those c&c tiberian sun gdf walkers, and a c&c 3 avatar. barf. not sure what to make of no overseer; what's zergs 7 minute scout now? also limits them zvp if toss goes dt. i don't like it.
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On October 22 2011 19:20 Greentellon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:15 secretary bird wrote:
So blink stalker colossi tempests will own MMM/Vikings now? Will you need Goliaths against that? Vikings are armored, Temptest does extra dmg versus light units. Trying to take out vikings or corruptors with temptest would be like trying to take out 10 ultralisks with psi-storm?
Your analogy doesn't make sense. The reason Psi Storm is ineffective against Ultralisks is because they have lots of Hp and are very large, and therefore, few of them are affected by any one cast of Storm. Psi Storm doesn't even have a bonus vs. light.
Vikings and Corruptors tend to clump together. AoE is AoE, and hitting 7 Vikings is still hitting 7 Vikings. It doesn't matter that the Tempest has a damage bonus vs. Light. What matters is how much damage it does against armored units and how good the AoE is.
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I have to admit, I'm pretty disappointed with the overall changes to HotS. The look of some of the new units make me go WTF. The new unit functionality design does feel rather gimmicky. I do like some of the Zerg changes.
While I'm not against Blizzard experimenting, I'm just not seeing how the new units they add are more exciting than the units they removed. Why did they replace the iconic carrier and not replace the corruptor??
I was hoping for changes to the core gameplay itself, like:
1) increasing unit radius a bit to prevent clumping
2) reduce game speed slightly to encourage longer and better-microed battles
3) allow units to push other away other units besides FF and unburrowing - I'm looking at you Ultralisk - none of this gimmicky burrow-charge - just goddamn charge and push units out of the way
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EPT
