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New HotS Units/Abilities in Blizzcon - Page 183

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Blizzard_torments_me
Profile Joined February 2010
Romania199 Posts
October 21 2011 21:57 GMT
#3641
On October 22 2011 06:53 Ordained wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:52 SolidMoose wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:51 NeonFox wrote:
The more I think about it the more I think that the "grant detection" spell from the viper is useless, 50/50 overseers are great now, and having to dump 200 gas to have mobile detection is just...


Welcome to Terran

Move scan to the Raven and Welcome to Zerg.


Remove larva inject from the game, welcome to Terran.
hocash
Profile Joined December 2010
United States82 Posts
October 21 2011 21:57 GMT
#3642
On October 22 2011 06:50 Andytaker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:46 hocash wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:31 XRaDiiX wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:30 GGTesomas wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:21 XRaDiiX wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:19 Bayyne wrote:
So I'm basically going to have to go Spire in order to have mobile detection out?


That's what i was thinking as well. How are Zerg going to Move out of the Base When Protoss can have Dark Templars Before Spire Timing.

And Spire takes so long...

Right now i'm seeing Protoss going for DT rushes sniping the Spire and GG

This is actually pretty concerning. I'm sure Blizz wouldn't fuck Zerg like that though, not again


That's Very True this is an issue we should discuss in the Thread right now ....

"That's what i was thinking as well. How are Zerg going to Move out of the Base When Protoss can have Dark Templars Before Spire Timing.

And Spire takes so long...

Right now i'm seeing Protoss going for DT rushes sniping the Spire and GG"


Spore Crawler by the Spire.
No 3rd untill spire finishes? Protoss will rush to dt and expand like crazy due to the mapcontrol or just make suicide dts to kill all spores :/ this just doesnt seem right. You Get Spire Around 10 mins ready, But Toss gets Obsever so much faster ad Terran Has Scan


Fastest DTs come out is 7:30 - if you're scouting correctly you'll see it coming as he has almost no gas units. Attack at 6:30 and it's auto gg if he opens dt. If he warps in sentries...well that just means he won't have dts for a while longer.

ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
October 21 2011 21:57 GMT
#3643
On October 22 2011 06:55 ClysmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:54 Kaitlin wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:47 Jermstuddog wrote:
Am I reading this right?

Protoss loses a unt to gain 3.



Nope.

Protoss loses Carrier and Mothership. The TWO units at the core of every Protoss build...

Yeah the loss of the carrier is going to COMPLETELY shift the metagame in all 3 matchups.


But he's right on one point though. Protoss lost two units to gain three, Zerg loses one to gain two, seems fair.

Terran on the other hand, loses nothing to gain two plus a transforming mode. Because they didn't have enough units already.
SpiZe
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada3640 Posts
October 21 2011 21:58 GMT
#3644
On October 22 2011 06:57 vol_ wrote:
Kerrigan sounds a lot like Tricia Helfer in this trailer, anyone know who the voice actor is?


Tricia Helfer
XRaDiiX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1730 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-21 21:58:55
October 21 2011 21:58 GMT
#3645
On October 22 2011 06:56 Za7oX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:52 SolidMoose wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:51 NeonFox wrote:
The more I think about it the more I think that the "grant detection" spell from the viper is useless, 50/50 overseers are great now, and having to dump 200 gas to have mobile detection is just...


Welcome to Terran


Scans?

How are we supposed to scout?

Imo there must be some other way they will let zerg scout. Hopefully base overlord speed is increased .



You're a Genius i never thought of that until now.

Zerg just lost their Early/Mid Game Scout (The Overseer) (Until Overlord Speed)

Don't say sack slow overlord Cause most of the time its too slow to even scout anything; before getting picked off
Never GG MKP | IdrA
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1823 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-21 21:59:41
October 21 2011 21:58 GMT
#3646
All this balance talk is kind of pointless at this point in time, but what I do like is it is pretty clear Blizzard went with the "let's just make cool stuff" approach so it is more esports/viewer friendly. I also like how they fit it into underused tech paths and/or as solutions to current balance issues. Stargate tech underused? Add 2 of the new units in stargate tech. Robo inflexible tech path? Add a flexible cloning unit (which is just cool from a viewer standpoint). Mech not seen as viable in some matchups? Add units and flexibility to current units.

The changes definitely have a very "streamlined" feel to them.

edit: I love a lot of the cool spells added on protoss too. Clearly harassment and harassment defense was a big issue for protoss and it looks like they are attempting to address that.
PresenceSc2
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4032 Posts
October 21 2011 21:58 GMT
#3647
On October 22 2011 06:54 amazingxkcd wrote:
why cant they just give the ovies detections themselves?


At lair yes. Not straight up from the start. Or there would never be any chance of early dt's doing anything.
Stephano//HerO//TaeJa//Squirtle//Bomber
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
October 21 2011 21:58 GMT
#3648
On October 22 2011 06:54 Roynalf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:53 kcdc wrote:
From: http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/21/official-list-of-unit-changes-in-starcraft-iis-heart-of-the-swarm-expansion/

A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus — this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units.


Why the hell wouldn't it be able to hit roaches, stalkers and marauders? Isn't one of the primary purposes to help defend an early expansion?

Primary purpose is to defend early pools


Hey, I'll take all the help I can get against lings (it'll also help against roach/ling all-ins), but if it damaged stalkers, you might actually see expansions in PvP.
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
October 21 2011 21:58 GMT
#3649
On October 22 2011 06:56 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:54 Greentellon wrote:
From what I understand, protoss replicators can replicate your own units. Can they "un-replicate"? Defend defend defend, replicate 6 sentries. Ok going on offensive now, 6 COLOSSUS! Oh my that is a lot of corruptors, better go 6 immortals instead. Build 1 void ray, get 7 instantly when the first pops out.

But will have to see how it really works. I'm really exited if the replicants can un-replicate. It would bring protoss some needed flexibility.


It can't replicate massive units, and Colossus are massive. However, it does grant the opportunity to go balls deep into a new tech patch as soon as that first unit hits, such as an instant army of void rays when the first pops. Or how about an instant army of Seige Tanks in PvT ?


To clone units, they have to be in super close range dont they?

I can think of many situations where it would be useful, but if you were planning on cloning ghosts to EMP the terran payer, don't get your hopes up. I'll be it's pretty difficult in practice.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
acrimoneyius
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States983 Posts
October 21 2011 21:59 GMT
#3650
On October 22 2011 06:56 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:
Okay, sc2 was fun [=
Back to bw for me now!! YEYEYEEE


Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Seriously sick of nerds complaining about a game they haven't even played yet.
Klyberess
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden345 Posts
October 21 2011 21:59 GMT
#3651
So the proxy gateways in my base will now have quasi-photon cannons attached?


Great.
EmpireHappy <3 STHack <3 ByunPrime
Krehlmar
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1149 Posts
October 21 2011 21:59 GMT
#3652
A huge problem that I can see is that :

Almost all the units have abilities, in the perfect of worlds more abilities would make better games due to more micro needed.
Problem is: Starcraft II is to fast in the sense that units clump up etc. so all the micro makes for unstable battles... much like Terran versus Zerg where missed fungal = zerg loses, perfect fungle = terran loses. More abilities makes for more chances of this happening.
My Comment Doesnt Matter Because No One Reads It
alan25
Profile Joined September 2010
United States379 Posts
October 21 2011 21:59 GMT
#3653
On October 22 2011 06:58 SpiZe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:57 vol_ wrote:
Kerrigan sounds a lot like Tricia Helfer in this trailer, anyone know who the voice actor is?


Tricia Helfer


lol
mr.reee
Profile Joined November 2010
121 Posts
October 21 2011 21:59 GMT
#3654
I appreciate the hydra speed increase, but the delayed detection issue as well as a better anti-muta for toss are serious concerns. I can't imagine a logical reasoning behind eliminating any zerg units - they had so few to begin with!
Sakray
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
France2198 Posts
October 21 2011 21:59 GMT
#3655
Wtf, where's the early-game harass protoss unit they promised ?

Holy shit, zerg new ones looks so OP (movable burrowed banelings, srsly WHAT THE FUCK), terrans maybe standard, but protoss...they seem so useless...
I was hugely expecting this follow-up, now I'm hugely disappointed...
ClysmiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2192 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-21 22:00:03
October 21 2011 21:59 GMT
#3656
On October 22 2011 06:57 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:53 Ordained wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:52 SolidMoose wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:51 NeonFox wrote:
The more I think about it the more I think that the "grant detection" spell from the viper is useless, 50/50 overseers are great now, and having to dump 200 gas to have mobile detection is just...


Welcome to Terran

Move scan to the Raven and Welcome to Zerg.


Remove larva inject from the game, welcome to Terran.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Make terran have to decide between making units or making drones. Welcome to Zerg.

Oh wait, Terrans would still have mules. Nevermind. :3
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
October 21 2011 22:00 GMT
#3657
On October 22 2011 06:58 Za7oX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:54 amazingxkcd wrote:
why cant they just give the ovies detections themselves?


At lair yes. Not straight up from the start. Or there would never be any chance of early dt's doing anything.



Agreed. Every race should have to work up to detection. I still think terran scans are a bit early for my taste.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
sereniity
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Sweden1159 Posts
October 21 2011 22:00 GMT
#3658
On October 22 2011 06:57 ZenithM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:55 ClysmiC wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:54 Kaitlin wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:47 Jermstuddog wrote:
Am I reading this right?

Protoss loses a unt to gain 3.



Nope.

Protoss loses Carrier and Mothership. The TWO units at the core of every Protoss build...

Yeah the loss of the carrier is going to COMPLETELY shift the metagame in all 3 matchups.


But he's right on one point though. Protoss lost two units to gain three, Zerg loses one to gain two, seems fair.

Terran on the other hand, loses nothing to gain two plus a transforming mode. Because they didn't have enough units already.


We semi-lose thor

The hellion is basically, the hellion... Doubt that the hellion will co-exist with that hellion transformer.

The goliath thingy seems cool, we needed something for mech. That's pretty much what everybody have been asking for (personally I hate mech but it says that they're good vs tanks so perhaps some bio with that unit to break siege lines will be good?).

The third unit seems really cool imo, for harassment mainly. Dunno if that's what we needed but we'll see how it plays out. No way of telling right now tbh.
"I am Day9, Holy shit!"
ruhrohraggy
Profile Joined October 2011
United States20 Posts
October 21 2011 22:00 GMT
#3659
On October 22 2011 06:47 Glacial wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:31 XRaDiiX wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:30 GGTesomas wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:21 XRaDiiX wrote:
On October 22 2011 06:19 Bayyne wrote:
So I'm basically going to have to go Spire in order to have mobile detection out?


That's what i was thinking as well. How are Zerg going to Move out of the Base When Protoss can have Dark Templars Before Spire Timing.

And Spire takes so long...

Right now i'm seeing Protoss going for DT rushes sniping the Spire and GG

This is actually pretty concerning. I'm sure Blizz wouldn't fuck Zerg like that though, not again


That's Very True this is an issue we should discuss in the Thread right now ....

"That's what i was thinking as well. How are Zerg going to Move out of the Base When Protoss can have Dark Templars Before Spire Timing.

And Spire takes so long...

Right now i'm seeing Protoss going for DT rushes sniping the Spire and GG"


lol, maybe learn the timings and make a couple spores? i.e. the old fashioned way?

Also, Hellions are used to by Terran to gain early map control and limit Zerg movement for a short while, why shouldn't DTs be able to be used in the same way? ^^


Because 4 Hellions don't suddenly make it impossible to take a 3rd. Because Spore Crawlers can't be placed in places where there is no creep. Because, unlike Terran Orbital Commands, Zerg does not have any form of mobile detection until Lair. And in HotS it will come with Vipers, which will be waaaay too late for DTs. It simply won't be possible to take a 3rd against a FFE build going for early DTs because you won't have Lair to poop creep at the 3rd to make a Spore Crawler or to make an Overseer.

I can't see why people are not grasping this, it's not that complicated. If the game was released tomorrow this would be a HUGE problem. I'm not QQing, but I am suggesting things will be changed (for all races, and) to allow Zerg to get detection at a reasonable time whether it means Lair takes less time to morph, Overseers are back in, etc. Hell, WoL changed a lot in beta.

I'm just amazed that people are confused about this :/
InvalidID
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1050 Posts
October 21 2011 22:00 GMT
#3660
On October 22 2011 06:56 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 06:54 Greentellon wrote:
From what I understand, protoss replicators can replicate your own units. Can they "un-replicate"? Defend defend defend, replicate 6 sentries. Ok going on offensive now, 6 COLOSSUS! Oh my that is a lot of corruptors, better go 6 immortals instead. Build 1 void ray, get 7 instantly when the first pops out.

But will have to see how it really works. I'm really exited if the replicants can un-replicate. It would bring protoss some needed flexibility.


It can't replicate massive units, and Colossus are massive. However, it does grant the opportunity to go balls deep into a new tech patch as soon as that first unit hits, such as an instant army of void rays when the first pops. Or how about an instant army of Seige Tanks in PvT ?


From the list of changes at PCGamer it says they will be expensive, so presumably this would not be a particularly cost effective way of tech switching, but could possibly be useful for some kind of specific late game tech switch I guess, like a big swell of void rays to stop a brood lord advance.
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