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PainUser & HD Casting Feedback Thread! - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
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kituatembo
Profile Joined September 2011
United States39 Posts
October 11 2011 18:43 GMT
#321
well i really like painuser his calls are not completely ridiculous and knows a great deal about the game. he is one of my favorite casters. however i had to vote no as i really don't like HDs casting. when i first started playing the game i watched HD all the time but as i grew to know the game more and more, the less and less i liked HDs casting.
Don't lose sight of the machine | kituatembo.627 masters
Ziktomini
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom377 Posts
October 11 2011 18:43 GMT
#322
Loved it.
Alerosin
Profile Joined June 2011
England23 Posts
October 11 2011 18:48 GMT
#323
Really good, at first i missed dApollo, but HD and Painuser actually make a really good team. Great job
Moonling
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States987 Posts
October 11 2011 18:48 GMT
#324
One needs to be the analyzer (of the builds and such) and neither you or painuser really filled that role. Pain did do it however when talking about a Terran match up but if its Pvz etc. it was really lacking. If i was you i would work on better interpretation of builds, (protoss specifically) like why is he doing this build on this map what could the zerg do to counter this, what is a weak point of this build.

On a positive note you have a great casting voice and generally good flow when talking (except when u get excited about stuff that fills like you are just filling in to increase excitement, we all love starcraft its really not needed until the big stuff happens) keep up the good work we all have areas that we need to improve on in our respective jobs or hobbies or w/e
1% of koreans control 99% of starcraft winnings. #occupykorea.
D_K_night
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada615 Posts
October 11 2011 18:49 GMT
#325
On October 11 2011 20:24 Chillton wrote:
PainUser, stop using words that you have no idea what they mean


It would really help Painuser if you were specific with what words he misused or wasn't correct on the meaning of.
Canada
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 18:54:01
October 11 2011 18:50 GMT
#326
personality: good
chemistry: good
entertainment: good

awareness: pretty bad
analysis: lacking surprisingly much

i think you should try to talk to artosis or other great analysis casters, even progamers and ask them how to improve on this and then focus very much on it. maybe you should try talk to apollo, i talked to him the other day and he said he has been focusing on this exact part very much lately and i can tell, its working great for him

you did a good job overall but see it like this. the game is constantly evolving and the progamers has to practice so hard to keep up, now casters has to do the exactly same thing. even if you did a good job you need to improve to not fall behind the rest of the content people watch.
you cant just as a caster sit and cast games to improve upon it, its like saying progamers practice by playing tournaments, which is somewhat ineffective. sit down alone in your room in silence and actually study everything thats going on in a replay/vod, from both perspectives.

understand the game, understand the timings and learn the builds to detail.

the reason why people actually love listening to idra casting is because he can see both players bases tell what builds they have and who is ahead and if a timing attack will kill them etc, he can do this because he knows how to identify a build, knows the timing of it and knows what it is supposed to counter and how to stop it/scout it.

seeing 4 rax and calling one player is gonna do some sort of bio aggression is not analysis, im not directing any of this to you but im just painting a picture of how actually complicated things are if you wanna do it perfectly

also as im reading through other peoples comments it just shows that what viewers actually want is very different from another. i read some guys dont want you to tell who is ahead and instead pretend its even all game long which i personally think is retarded, but hey thats his opinion and i have my own. i guess you just need to figure out what you want to be as a caster, on what level do you want to be on and what audience do you want to direct at, and from there you quickly will know what you need to improve and focus on
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
phos4
Profile Joined October 2009
Germany226 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 18:53:42
October 11 2011 18:51 GMT
#327
tree.hugger said everything i had in mind in a way more eloquent way then i would have, but i want to bring up my main points of criticism once more:
- your game knowledge (of all three races) and/or knowledge of the scene is not what i expect of casters in your position, so many things you say are just wrong
- often times you are way to biased towards one player and hype up everything he does + spend all the time in his base / over his army so that it is very hard to know what the other guy is doing.
- i actually like how you bring your own flavor by using words like "brethren", but you are overdoing it. i don't want to hear a discussion whether we see a flock or gaggle or whatever of mutas ever again. in a game of sc2 so much is happening, don't waste your time with the same things over and over again.

another tip (maybe your are already doing this):
you should watch to your own casts and a look critically for mistakes/things you don't like just like watching a replay. at the end of the day you can't please everybody, but if like yourself what you are doing it shouldn't be to bad.
iDrone
Profile Joined December 2010
United States176 Posts
October 11 2011 18:58 GMT
#328
I enjoy painuser's casting but HD i'm not a fan of. I like painuser because he analyzes the game so well by explaining the macro process in the background. He is about 5x more aware of whats going on than HD.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 19:05:43
October 11 2011 19:04 GMT
#329
tree.hugger is really on the money with his criticisms. I think you guys should definitely consider his feedback.

One thing I want to add is that there are times when you two disagree on an analysis of a situation, which is not a bad thing on it's own, but sometimes the flow of the casting gets disrupted by the discussion. I think this is a consequence of two commentators both trying to do too much analysis. To be clear,I don't think there should be a strict play-by-play commentator and analyst role, because some dialogue is good. I think you could distinguish your roles a bit more, and the chemistry would be better.
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
October 11 2011 19:05 GMT
#330
I think they are a great duo. I've never been one to care about strict analyses, and I'd rather the casters make the games exciting.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
lorcasTV
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada100 Posts
October 11 2011 19:06 GMT
#331
I don't really like HD so I'll try to limit the bias as much as I can...

1- Caster duos needs to be natural. When they have the early game chatter, it needs to feel natural. Unfortunately this felt forced. I have noticed other casters were a lot more natural (Catspajamas & DOA comes to mind). If you can't do it naturally, find something else to do and if you can't, you shouldn't be casting together.

2- Game experience/knowledge. PainUser has it to some extent, HD doesn't. That alone isn't a big deal. However if you don't know something, don't talk about it. HD seems to have a lack of game knowledge and needs to keep to play-by-play until he covers up that lack of knowledge. There's nothing worse than calling something that's wrong and having your spectators predict it better than you. I've had a similar experience while watching hockey with Benoit Brunet. The guy was awful and kept doing a very poor job analyzing and calling stuff wrong. If you can't do it, don't do it.

3- Game flow and hype... I have to agree with 0neder on this one. This is something all casters needs to do so it's not so much of a HD/PainUser thing. You need to hype what's going on now instead of killing the game 10 minutes in when there's 15 minutes left. Also I have to point out to help 0neder with his argument the TSL3 finals. Hotbid purposely hid the production tabs at key points and kept us in the dark over some things. I remember that game on crossfire as being the biggest suspense game ever. Naniwa containing Thorzain and nearly breaking him until that 1 medivac shows up to help clean the contain. I almost had a heart attack, and this is a good thing. Casters should start doing this more.

Anyway, I'm sorry that's a bit harsher than I thought it would be. But the points are still valid, find a co-caster where you don't sound overly fake, learn about the game or stick to play-by-play and try and keep the suspense in a game alive until then end.

Hope this helps
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 19:06:35
October 11 2011 19:06 GMT
#332
I personally am not a big fan of having the production tab open many parts of the game (I think it detracts a lot from the suspense of a match), but many people would not stand for not having that so I guess that's okay. But if you have the production tab, please try to pay attention to it.

I noticed many times that you guys don't pay attention to it at all or notice things too late (example: one Terminus game where Protoss was going two stargate right next to each other and it was frustrating to hear HD theorize for the longest time how 1 stargate pressure was going to work.)

Also, I think "all-in" is an overused term. Of course many casters do this so this is not specific to you guys but not every aggressive build is an "all-in."
tripfiend
Profile Joined January 2011
India45 Posts
October 11 2011 19:08 GMT
#333
My 2 cents even though its in tune with most of what has been said. I, like many others here also started with yours and Huskies casting.. and its understandable that once you understand a little bit more about the game you obviously want to move on to a more informed casting style.

Even though I stopped watching Huskies commentaries a while back.. I think his pairing with Day9 goes really well.. where both caster know exactly what their roles are and are comfortable doing it.

A lot of people have already said the play by play vs analysis dynamic.. and I totally agree with the fact that you should concentrate on the play by play more and leave the analysis to Painuser. And by play by play, i mean not digressing into random anecdotes. but aggressively following whats going on on the minimap, and the match.

Just react to the games more, know your players,their play styles, and dont get too stuck to any narrative.. leave the metagaming to Painuser.

Again, you do a far better job than I can ever do. And I wish you the best.. since I did start with SC2 with yours and huskies videos.
Cattle Decapitation
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 19:20:47
October 11 2011 19:12 GMT
#334
I think tree.hugger has said everything that was on my mind. There's absolutely nothing wrong with not knowing everything. So please stop pretending that you do and just be yourselves. If you & the viewers are not satisfied with that, then actually do your homework beforehand. I hope you take inspiration from Husky, who had faced similar criticism before he knuckled down and put in the effort to get better.

Just to add, it's also perfectly ok to disagree with each other during a cast. Good chemisty doesn't mean you guy have to get along all the time and blindly agree to everything the other person says. The only thing more annoying and obnoxious than listening to a guy being constantly off the mark, is if the other person stays quiet or just casually agrees to avoid confrontation.

I sincerely hope that I don't feel the need to mute the stream in your future casts.
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
Caliber
Profile Joined August 2010
United States598 Posts
October 11 2011 19:13 GMT
#335
thought it was good.
painuser so handsome
provrorsbarn
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden766 Posts
October 11 2011 19:16 GMT
#336
Im not gonna harp on the knowledge of the game etc cuz alot of ppl previously have explained it quite good (morrow)....but in short it was really bad.

Broadcasting wise you need to stop doing rookie-mistakes Yelling/clapping/scratching etc. You have a mic, its sounds terrible to the audience.
Focus more on the actual game/players. Try to find good timings when to talk and not talk (that usually grows over time but u guys have casted alot before if Im not mistaken). Listen to each other. Dont use alot of "uhh" and "aahhh" after every sentence etc

You have good chemistry try to harness it and you have a nice excitement to the game, the banter with the audience was nice but dont do it too much (try to talk to each other instead)....
Thats my 2 cents.
Im just a zerg
integrity
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1014 Posts
October 11 2011 19:22 GMT
#337
i personally just want the term "ling bling" to go away and never come back
Cirqueenflex
Profile Joined October 2010
499 Posts
October 11 2011 19:24 GMT
#338
one thing that really really confused me was:
wasn't samsung your main sponsor? How come it was the one you made the very least advertising for? It appealed as if Visine had bought and gifted you both casinos, there were a lot of other sponsors and then there was Samsung that just supported you with 10 free monitors to give away. That was really messed up for me :|
Give a man a fire, you keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Hambone636
Profile Joined October 2010
United States62 Posts
October 11 2011 19:24 GMT
#339
Please Read This
I believe it will help
I watched IPL3 with 5 other friends, and we all came to the same conclusion about the 3 casting duo's casters

I like Painuser enough
But there were many times we would cringe or shake our heads in response to your analysis/general comments.

You make so many calls that are wrong, and get way too excited over things that are irrelevant
Since you have little meta game knowledge do not try to predict anything, because it usually ends up making you look bad

My advice - just do play by play, alerting Painuser to what is going on and make sure what you say is correct before you say it, and don't do that fake laugh nonsense
Also, stick to the game, players and their teams - while Tasteosis can talk about silly things and make it work and be funny - you do not have that ability

With all that being said, I am glad you are trying and don't give up - you will do fine
GL in improving
Tonight is like the weekend of today
Pesto
Profile Joined February 2011
United States121 Posts
October 11 2011 19:34 GMT
#340
I think many people that watched many of the IPL qualifiers might agree that HD's casting was better at that point, at least the chemistry between the two casters was more natural. Possibly because they were both high all the time, possibly because they were more nervous at the live event.

I agree with everyone else that HD's analysis needs to improve but I know that the "casting reactor" has the potential for hilarity, they just need to grow more confidence for the live events, gl.
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