EPTt;ldr Focus on presenting the action, analysis is fine but spend more energy making sure to capture all the action of the game.
PainUser & HD Casting Feedback Thread! - Page 16
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RabidSeagull
United States220 Posts
t;ldr Focus on presenting the action, analysis is fine but spend more energy making sure to capture all the action of the game. | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
On October 11 2011 15:09 0neder wrote: I'd like to give you some feedback you probably weren't expecting. I hope you guys, IPL, and your competitors take it to heart. I know I will give definite preference to whoever does. 1. TURN OFF PROGRESS STATS BARS. Existing stuff is fine, income is fine, just don't tell me what's going to happen in the future. It completely kills the excitement by about 300%. Don't tell me how behind someone is either. That kills the game instantly. Don't show the worker/unit tab. 2. To be honest, I don't expect amazing game knowledge, and I don't even really want it. Don't try to predict what will happen, just hype up what IS happening. Don't show skepticism of a strategy, give a player the benefit of the doubt and hype up his guts to give each variable more importance by cheesing. I enjoy your casting in terms of delivery and excitement. Sometimes it feels a little fake, but overall you guys are good. Just give me uncertainty and excitement over omniscience and declarations that a game's over so I might as well stop watching. I actually prefer to know what's going on in the game and like to hear analysis of strategies. Edit: I wasn't a big fan of you guys, I wanted Day9/Tastosis to cast IPL3 but I disagree with a lot of the criticism in this thread. I think people (mainly kids?) are being way too harsh. Every time someone mispronounces a word in a cast, a bunch of people will tell you to "learn grammar" or something, as if that's constructive. I hope that you guys are able to get at least some use from threads like these, because I get the impression that this mainly people jumping on the opportunity to be negative. | ||
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Penke
Sweden346 Posts
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Lamphead
Canada241 Posts
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PhoenixDark
United States286 Posts
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Naske
Norway14 Posts
HD appeared to be slightly more knowledgeable than Husky. After I bought the game and watched a bit of GSL and day9, I quickly lost all interest in HD and Husky. He has a great voice, but apart from that what makes him interesting? I see nothing but an assertive cheesy smile, constantly misplaced fake enthusiasm and superficial game understanding. | ||
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DoublespeakUS
United States55 Posts
On October 11 2011 22:33 Zandar wrote: I watched you a lot in the early days before and during beta, but at a certain point I didn't like your casting anymore and I wasn't sure why, but in retrospect I think I know. Eventually you changed from that enthousiastic kid nerd into that sales guy I get at the door that wants to sell me something I don't want. The original genuine enthusiasm started to sound fake, you started to dress in a suit, your smile became that McDonalds guy smile, your voice too slick. You got a commercial air around you like I'm doing anything for my youtube viewer count, I want your money. People also mention the lack of knowledge compared to guys like Day9 and Artosis a lot, but this in itself is no issue at all, because I can watch DJWheat, Husky and Tasteless fine. But there is a difference, these last 3 don't give me the feeling they "sell" me stuff they don't know, pretending like they do, while you often give me that feeling you do. These 2 things combined are your biggest issue I think. At least that's what made me stop believing what you say eventually and the main reason I stopped watching you. And this can be fixed. Because you are still that masters league sc2 zerg nerd. And you do have the casting skills. Silly thing is that I do think your enthusiasm is genuine, but you somehow make it feel fake. I think you should try to be yourself more, be the genuine HD, try to get rid of the fake sales guy thingy and you'll be a lot better soon. This 1000x! This is exactly how I felt and I couldn't put it into words. I subscibed to HD in the beta and loved it. But now I remember you doing those give-a-ways, advertisements and then MLG/GSL started and I focused on that. You honestly looked more comfortable plugging Visine then you did when casting. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
I think keeping up with other tournaments ands broadcasts (like GSL) would help in terms of staying up to date with the meta-game as well. If you can't analyze or make a call on the fly, at least you'll be able to mine your brain and reference other games. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
It wasn't for a lack of enthusiasm on your part, while I think that all foreign casters could generally be a bit more exciting, that wasn't something that I felt distinguished you guys negatively. My main issue with your casting was that you two were frequently downright wrong in your analysis and predictions. Everyone makes mistakes in predicting what is going on in the players heads, and sometimes the better casters miss the objective of a certain build order. But I'm sorry to say that you guys do it with such regularity that it's sometimes a little painful to listen to. Moreover, you guys have a habit of making mistakes in an extremely forceful and confident tone, which is particularly cringe worthy. Or else saying something so banal and obvious as though it's a critical strategic insight. (One I remember in particular was HD insisting that a third base would be really important in a game that was already on two bases for a while, with both players playing a passive-till-maxed style). Reading some of the comments in this thread, you seem to have fooled a bunch of people, but convincing people that you're right doesn't actually make the analysis right. A final issue is that you guys have a habit of beginning to predict a battle result, than drawing out the sentence or holding a vowel sound until you're sure of the outcome, just to make sure you're right. Sometimes when the battle goes the opposite way that you intended, it's a really obvious that you expected the opposite outcome and changed your words mid-sentence to sound like you expected the result all along. So to improve on all of this, I'd suggest that you be more comfortable with not knowing some things. If you don't have any special knowledge about what is going on, don't feel pressured to add it. Don't make predictions about a battle, just describe how the battle is going. Describe the micro and the engagement. For build orders you're unfamiliar with, describe the build. For maps you don't know the balance of, describe the map. Don't try to sound like you know it all, nobody expects you to. At the same time, we do expect you to know more than most people. On more than one occasion, it didn't sound that way at all. In a specific instance, one of you previewed a Liquid`HerO match by saying that HerO is a 'passive' player. That's like calling IdrA's style "low economy" or calling TLO's style "orthodox". It's the farthest thing from the truth possible. I can't remember a single game where HerO has ever played passively, and thus had to conclude that neither of you had actually watched him ever play. I understand that you guys do a lot of work, but it seems like part of your pre-tournament preparations should be to dredge up a few youtube videos or replays of all the players you'll be casting in the tournament, just to make sure you have something to say about their styles. For example, HuK always opens with one of two openings on Shakuras, or IdrA never scouts certain proxy positions on certain maps. These are well-known facts to most people in the scene, but perhaps not to the ordinary spectator. So if you're prepared with some background on the maps and the players, you won't run into this problem of seeming really uninformed. I should also mention that you two were probably the highest ranked on ladder pair of casters at IPL, but that doesn't mean much, because (A) it's on NA, and (B) the top top top players of EU and KR are playing at a different level than even most GM players ever see. That's all, I hope you guys take some valuable lessons from this thread and really use it to improve. Good luck in casting future tournaments! | ||
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Abstinence
United States328 Posts
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Tailss
Sweden233 Posts
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
1. The jokes. I guess this is just personal, but I feel like you try too hard to be funny or cool when you don't have to, and it comes off as awkward. Many facepalm moments occur in this department. 2. This is THE BIG ONE. Your analysis. You need to be honest with yourself, man. You are not a good analyst. You are not a top-tier player. PainUser is a much, much better player than you, and even he struggles a lot with situations not involving Terran. It's really hard because you cast for IPL, where CatsPajamas can't analyze and PainUser is very laid back, but you really, really need to stop. Just stick to telling us what is going on, not what is going to happen, because you are wrong a good 30-40% of the time and it makes your casts unwatchable for me. So, that's about it. I really hope you tone it down, humble yourself a bit, and go back to being a good caster again. As for PainUser, no real complaints. I think he needs to speak up more often and really take the analysis role seriously. Right now it feels like to me the IPL casters have no chemistry. CatsPajamas never impressed me during the IPL seasons, but he really shined with Doa, so maybe you and PainUser just need to shake things up a bit too. | ||
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laguu
Finland278 Posts
HD: Confident and smooth. Nice hyping. Painuser: I think you are holding back your knowledge I'm sure u know much more than you speak out. Don't be afraid to make predictions, estimates etc. Also, you seem a bit nervous at times. When the camera is on you you tend to turn your posture towards HD and talk to him while you should rather be speaking to the audience! Also, you tend to use these words way too much - you know - like - absolutely huge (and other exaggeration) I think you both did quite well and I actually think you guys improved a lot over the weekend. You guys have a ton of potential and I don't see anything stopping you from becoming S class casters. Keep improving! edit: I'd like to second everything treehugger said, I'm just bad at articulating in english. I didn't mute the stream tho  | ||
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Entaro[AoV]
United States184 Posts
In the same vein, i think it would help to be more transparent. People are quite capable of telling when emotion or enthusiasm is forced. You don't always have to be wowing at every aspect of the game and as viewers, we don't expect all games to be entertaining and definitely not all of the time during any given game. Speak what you feel, and I think you'll enjoy it more yourself and make it a better experience for your viewers. | ||
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.suN
Austria16 Posts
overall I really loved your casts! They are funny and entertaining i like both of your voices, which for a caster, is an important thing how your voices sound Im looking forward to IPL4! =) keep up the awesome work, you are an awesome casting duo (my favourite if it comes down to just chill and watch some awesome sc2 games) hope my english wasnt that bad,.. im no native english speaker so sorry for all bad grammar/spellings | ||
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emesen
United States256 Posts
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Gryffes
United Kingdom763 Posts
Aside from that it was relatively decent. | ||
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creamer
Canada128 Posts
For example: in football (American), a caster/commentator is forced to point out the obvious dozens of times every game. This doesn't make them a bad caster, it's just their job. Not everyone has extensive game knowledge which is why it is important that both casters are not constantly analyzing the game in-depth. When I first played Starcraft, HD's youtube channel was a great place for me to visit daily to help me learn and develop as a player. I'm now a top 8 master and I started playing RTS just over a year ago. I think the casting was great, the event set new standards, and I hope the sponsors were happy. | ||
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BjC
England181 Posts
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GotTheLife
91 Posts
Btw, PainUser you have to stream moar!!! | ||
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