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On October 02 2011 17:01 Vedad wrote:said nuff. not being GM disqualifies you to discuss the GM statistics, also if you look at the site you linked to and go to progamer statistics, they disagree with you.
what progamer statistics those are progamer statistics dude
read before you post
also everyone can discuss about statistics no matter what league hes in
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On October 02 2011 17:46 Elean wrote:
I really don't understand how protoss can be more difficult to play than terran at any level, including pro.
In term of balance, I believe terran is much stronger than protoss, so if you want to win GSL, it will be easier as terran.
But, in term of how difficult it is to reach the top of your race, I really think protoss is the easiest.They have the lowest skill ceiling of all races.
Seriously, is it easier to reach Nestea's level as a zerg or to reach MC's level as a protoss ?
I really don't see anything impressive from pro protoss. So many of them still have all their army in 1 control group...
Protoss is the race that rewards skills the least. In term of balance at pro level, it's a disavantage. But that makes protoss the easiest race to master.
The OP worded his question wrong IMO. Obviously it's harder to play T/Z but currently it's harder to actually win with P. At least that's how I answered.
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Judicator's Picks
Category 1: Z
Category 2: Z
Category 3: P
Category 4: P
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On October 02 2011 17:46 Elean wrote:
I really don't understand how protoss can be more difficult to play than terran at any level, including pro.
In term of balance, I believe terran is much stronger than protoss, so if you want to win GSL, it will be easier as terran.
But, in term of how difficult it is to reach the top of your race, I really think protoss is the easiest.They have the lowest skill ceiling of all races.
Seriously, is it easier to reach Nestea's level as a zerg or to reach MC's level as a protoss ?
I really don't see anything impressive from pro protoss. So many of them still have all their army in 1 control group...
Protoss is the race that rewards skills the least. In term of balance at pro level, it's a disavantage. But that makes protoss the easiest race to master.
Protoss skill ceiling is so high because of micro. Hightemplars in prisims are extreamly efficient in battles. Very hard to use. Pheonixes, faster than any other unit that can hit them, and regen shields. Nearly unlimited micro sink. Warp prisim haras, as they are by far the fastest dropships they have the most potential, but hardest to use. Also there is blink micro and forcefield usage.
And you are right, I dont see anything impressive from pro protosses, but you can see the results of that in GSL, but there is so much impressive stuff they could do.
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On October 02 2011 17:46 Elean wrote:
I really don't understand how protoss can be more difficult to play than terran at any level, including pro.
In term of balance, I believe terran is much stronger than protoss, so if you want to win GSL, it will be easier as terran.
But, in term of how difficult it is to reach the top of your race, I really think protoss is the easiest.They have the lowest skill ceiling of all races.
Seriously, is it easier to reach Nestea's level as a zerg or to reach MC's level as a protoss ?
I really don't see anything impressive from pro protoss. So many of them still have all their army in 1 control group...
Protoss is the race that rewards skills the least. In term of balance at pro level, it's a disavantage. But that makes protoss the easiest race to master.
chose a fixed skill lvl, let's say... better than everyone in code S. Is is easier to reach it as Terran or as Protoss ?
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This is anecdotal, but I'll say it anyways. In my personal experience, I have never seen a Masters+ level Terran who didn't already have a solid background in RTS. I've seen Zerg and Protoss rise up to Masters+ without that background though.
Before diamond, Zerg is probably hardest to play because you can't wall off.
I don't think Protoss is ever the hardest to play, just that it may lack some tools to make it a "deep" race.
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One of the very few times I agree with every thing on a poll, yea once ~master zerg macro kicks in and they start actually thinking about the game, Terran has to be godly to pressure.
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No doubt that terran is the hardest to play at diamond level and above. Zerg is probably the hardest in the lower leagues.
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Hi. I have a question regarding this thread especially since many including mods like iamke55 seem to already agree to the poll results. How are the results valid in any way, especially since anyone and everyone can vote on each level? And what are the objective measures that makes a certain race the hardest to play at a certain level?
Unless there is some sort of filter to ensure that grandmasters and others indeed vote and chime in on their appropriate level, this thread will only end up as "my race is harder/better than your race".
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Could you add the poll: 'The race i voted as hardest happens to be the race I am playing. Yes/No.' ?
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On October 02 2011 17:46 Elean wrote:
I really don't understand how protoss can be more difficult to play than terran at any level, including pro.
In term of balance, I believe terran is much stronger than protoss, so if you want to win GSL, it will be easier as terran.
But, in term of how difficult it is to reach the top of your race, I really think protoss is the easiest.They have the lowest skill ceiling of all races.
Seriously, is it easier to reach Nestea's level as a zerg or to reach MC's level as a protoss ?
I really don't see anything impressive from pro protoss. So many of them still have all their army in 1 control group...
Protoss is the race that rewards skills the least. In term of balance at pro level, it's a disavantage. But that makes protoss the easiest race to master.
Since there are NO protoss players that really master the race how in Gods name can you say they reached the ceiling the fastest? There is no protoss that plays so incredible good that you can say "This is the way protoss has to play". There are no dominant protosses, but there are MANY dominant terrans and one dominant zerg.
Terran is obviously the most figured out race, and that means the road was easier. A LOT easier. Zergs are right there behind, but they still have lot's of room for improvement and protsses are like just starting the game.
You get confused by the fact that protoss is not a complicated race, but mastering it takes a lot skill.
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if everybody voted the race he/she played then one race would be ahead in all polls, as we see this isnt the case so people are not voting for their race only
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i dont agree with P being the hardest to play at GM
there is a confusion between "P having success" and hardest to play.
if someone made this poll back when MC popularized the 6-gate timing attack vs T and every T in GSL was scared of picking a protoss everyone would have voted for either T/Z in GM.
this just shows how current results of the game influence the output of the poll.
i also think diamond and master should be 2 diff categories.
overall i kinda agree with the overall votes except for GM..
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I only voted for the Diamond level, because that's where I play. Everything else looks pretty spot on though.
I play random at the moment, but I was Terran through season 1. I have way more games played as Terran than the other races, and my Terran matchups are my worst 3. I feel like it's the least forgiving race in terms of engagements, and the race for which macro means the least. I can consistently out-macro my opponents for every race, but it doesn't really convert to a win as terran. Obviously it's different at gold/platinum level, when everyone just macros up an army and a-moves. Once you reach the skill area where you're to face facing casting units or attacks on multiple fronts, it feels like you have to position and control all your units perfectly as Terran. One fungal, baneling hit, or missed EMP can cost you the game.
I never feel safe as Terran, except in TvT. Conversely, I feel like I can just go on auto-pilot and still crush terrans as either Z or P, assuming I live past the first 9-10 min.
Most of this should go away at higher levels, when unit control is stronger and you really know how to dictate the pace of the game with drops/position plays.
Edit: I worked my way to diamond in season 1 as Terran and switched to random at the beginning of season 2. Even with essentially no experience playing zerg or protoss (aside from a few team games), they quickly became my strong races.
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The thing about this poll is that there's almost nobody on gm/pro level here and people just vote Protoss being the hardest due to the huge amount of recent Protoss QQ and the low number of P in the GSL. I'm not saying P is not the hardest on that level, I don't know, but neither can most of you.
I agree with the other tiers.
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On October 02 2011 18:24 alepov wrote:
The thing about this poll is that there's almost nobody on gm/pro level here and people just vote Protoss being the hardest due to the huge amount of recent Protoss QQ and the low number of P in the GSL. I'm not saying P is not the hardest on that level, I don't know, but neither can most of you.
I agree with the other tiers.
well said sir 
yeah P is pretty hard at GM/pro level but this poll (or any poll at any time really) can never be objective because the "hardest race" picked for GM/pro is always gonna be the one "sucking" or having an hard time -in GSL- at that particular moment.
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i didnt know there are so many Grandmaster/pro users here :o
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As a masters level random player, I think Terran. at some point, you begin to understand Zerg and different timing attacks so it's easy to macro, and for Protoss, I honestly don't have much of a gameplan every game and yet it's still my winningest race.
Terran is just hard as you really need to understand precise timings well, and need to constantly micro and multitask
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EPT
