Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)
" Lewellys stated that he doesn't plan on sending Stephano to lots of international event, and that he will focus on French events." is a fake. Lewellys never say that I was on the stream. He said that stephano go to the french evant if he have the time
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote: what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot
now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind"
do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from?
do you somehow genuinely think that people should just sign a _legal contract_ and be allowed to just say "fuck it I don't need to do it lolololol" what century are you from?
stephano did not sign a legal contract. he signed something a jumped-up american idiot thought would bind him under Texas law. doesn't work that way, and no french court would extradite him for it.
And the Australians would say that it's perfectly fine to not hold on to an agreement, cuz you found a loophole in it? That's amazing =)
that's how the law works, yes. should courts go by the "spirit of an agreement"? it's unworkable.
in this case, we're not talking about minor loopholes either, but massive, fundamental problems.
so by "massive fundamental problems" you mean "not in french"?
K.
- the contract wasn't in french - it attempted to subject the employee to a different country's labour laws - it had the form of a contract for fixed service provision, but the function of employment - it made no provision for specification or limitation of a probationary period, yet purported to apply from the date of witness
we have been told all these things by compLexity representatives. any of them, alone, would be sufficient to void the document.
Not in the US, go away stop stop stop. You repeating the same stuff over and over again doesnt make it less wrong
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote: what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
..... I don't understand why people like this get involved in the conversation, if they are so willfully ignorant that they don't understand the purpose or intents of a -- any -- business.
You can't sign a contract, and then in less than a day after it's made public decline to follow through with your LEGAL obligations. It is illegal.
I'm genuinely not sure you're old enough to use a website like TL. It sounds like a very childish thing to imply that any and all contracts made should be okay to break. There would be no point to having a contract if you could just walk away from your agreement.
Did i say it was ok for him to break his contract ????
Did i say he acted legally?
He acted immorally, unethically and broke his contract (legal or otherwise), I simply tried to point out that coL are better off without him and should just leave it at that, all this threat of legal action is doing is causing a shit storm over something which i think both parties could of handled internally.
i totally agree, but the fact of the matter is that you can't handle things internally when only one party is willing to do so, and the others ignoring that.
How do you handle it internally when it's already out in the public? They announced their new signing. Stephano changes his mind then his old team disrespect coL.
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote: what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot
now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind"
do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from?
do you somehow genuinely think that people should just sign a _legal contract_ and be allowed to just say "fuck it I don't need to do it lolololol" what century are you from?
stephano did not sign a legal contract. he signed something a jumped-up american idiot thought would bind him under Texas law. doesn't work that way, and no french court would extradite him for it.
And the Australians would say that it's perfectly fine to not hold on to an agreement, cuz you found a loophole in it? That's amazing =)
that's how the law works, yes. should courts go by the "spirit of an agreement"? it's unworkable.
in this case, we're not talking about minor loopholes either, but massive, fundamental problems.
so by "massive fundamental problems" you mean "not in french"?
K.
- the contract wasn't in french - it attempted to subject the employee to a different country's labour laws - it had the form of a contract for fixed service provision, but the function of employment - it made no provision for specification or limitation of a probationary period, yet purported to apply from the date of witness
we have been told all these things by compLexity representatives. any of them, alone, would be sufficient to void the document.
Where exactly did you get your law degree? Because actual French people with actual knowledge of French employment and contract laws have already posted in this thread.
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote: what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot
now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind"
do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from?
do you somehow genuinely think that people should just sign a _legal contract_ and be allowed to just say "fuck it I don't need to do it lolololol" what century are you from?
stephano did not sign a legal contract. he signed something a jumped-up american idiot thought would bind him under Texas law. doesn't work that way, and no french court would extradite him for it.
And the Australians would say that it's perfectly fine to not hold on to an agreement, cuz you found a loophole in it? That's amazing =)
that's how the law works, yes. should courts go by the "spirit of an agreement"? it's unworkable.
in this case, we're not talking about minor loopholes either, but massive, fundamental problems.
so by "massive fundamental problems" you mean "not in french"?
K.
- the contract wasn't in french - it attempted to subject the employee to a different country's labour laws - it had the form of a contract for fixed service provision, but the function of employment - it made no provision for specification or limitation of a probationary period, yet purported to apply from the date of witness
we have been told all these things by compLexity representatives. any of them, alone, would be sufficient to void the document.
You don't even understand basic contract law(as proven when calling work length agreements 'barbaric') so stop talking about this like you know anything at all. The fact is that an ACTUAL LAWYER is not exactly sure how this will unfold, so quit acting like you are.
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote: what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
..... I don't understand why people like this get involved in the conversation, if they are so willfully ignorant that they don't understand the purpose or intents of a -- any -- business.
You can't sign a contract, and then in less than a day after it's made public decline to follow through with your LEGAL obligations. It is illegal.
I'm genuinely not sure you're old enough to use a website like TL. It sounds like a very childish thing to imply that any and all contracts made should be okay to break. There would be no point to having a contract if you could just walk away from your agreement.
Did i say it was ok for him to break his contract ????
Did i say he acted legally?
He acted immorally, unethically and broke his contract (legal or otherwise), I simply tried to point out that coL are better off without him and should just leave it at that, all this threat of legal action is doing is causing a shit storm over something which i think both parties could of handled internally.
i totally agree, but the fact of the matter is that you can't handle things internally when only one party is willing to do so, and the others ignoring that.
How do you handle it internally when it's already out in the public? They announced their new signing. Stephano changes his mind then his old team disrespect coL.
(except Stephano and Millenium are now *ignoring* coL.)
On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote: Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really?
Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me
I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all..
On September 20 2011 06:25 gulbanana wrote: it's a JOB. you are allowed to quit a job, if you want, because in 2011 most people aren't slaves. in france, you have the right to quit a job without notice within the probation period. even without that he could have just given notice, and been "on complexity" for 2 weeks! how would that have been substantially different?
Umm yes you can always quit your job, but there are consequences.
For example a soccer or baseball player chooses not to play they have every right to do that, they cannot however go and play for another team.
they actually can do that, unless the other team chooses to not employ them. the reason that people can't typically do this in soccer is because the teams form leagues which agree to monopolise employment of players. in starcraft 2, no such monopoly of owners has been formed. it probably will coalesce, eventually; that's what KESPA was to starcraft 1.
On September 20 2011 07:04 Datum wrote: This is just so tiring. I wish there was a legitimate internation e-sports body that could handle cases like this. It often doesn't make financial sense for teams to pursue legal actions in contract disputes, so I really think a governing body that looks at all contract disputes could do a lot of good for e-sports.
Governing bodies cost money to upkeep and form. It's impossible to make money without people upholding their contracts.
" Lewellys stated that he doesn't plan on sending Stephano to lots of international event, and that he will focus on French events." is a fake. Lewellys never say that I was on the stream. He said that stephano go to the french evant if he have the time.
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote: what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot
now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind"
do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from?
do you somehow genuinely think that people should just sign a _legal contract_ and be allowed to just say "fuck it I don't need to do it lolololol" what century are you from?
stephano did not sign a legal contract. he signed something a jumped-up american idiot thought would bind him under Texas law. doesn't work that way, and no french court would extradite him for it.
And the Australians would say that it's perfectly fine to not hold on to an agreement, cuz you found a loophole in it? That's amazing =)
that's how the law works, yes. should courts go by the "spirit of an agreement"? it's unworkable.
in this case, we're not talking about minor loopholes either, but massive, fundamental problems.
so by "massive fundamental problems" you mean "not in french"?
K.
- the contract wasn't in french - it attempted to subject the employee to a different country's labour laws - it had the form of a contract for fixed service provision, but the function of employment - it made no provision for specification or limitation of a probationary period, yet purported to apply from the date of witness
we have been told all these things by compLexity representatives. any of them, alone, would be sufficient to void the document.
Where exactly did you get your law degree? Because actual French people with actual knowledge of French employment and contract laws have already posted in this thread.
Hes going off of his own personal training of course
On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote: Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really?
Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me
I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all..
Med School at 18 isn't the norm.
Depens where you live, i knew quite a few people who started med school at 18. Starting uni at 18-19 isent that uncommon in denmark at least
University and medical school are different, at least to a US speaker. You go to med school after university.
Ok I'm done reading all this pages but this is very interesting because it raises a problem that is often put under silence which is the trading of players.
I'm in no way qualified to judge this situation, because if have almost no clue about the law that should be applied or who is right or wrong.
On a personal note, I'm quite disappointed by the reaction of Millenium which is basically to ignore Complexity and I just blame Stephano for being too young and maybe immature to take his responsability. Because even if he changed his mind during the binding process, he should have informed and talked with CoL to find a "clean" way to let him go back to Millenium.
I mean Destiny left CoL few days after he signed, but he talked to CoL and they came to a mutual agreement which is always the best solution you can find. If you, as a player, are not happy with your team, your team has no more interest to keep you. I don't know any teams that will force a player to stay under contract if he doesn't want to.
This situation is quite dirty and really not classy to say the least. I just wish both parts won't take much damage with that case and that it will set the rules concerning players trading.
On September 20 2011 06:56 Dietch wrote: Sadly, in france, legislation is on the employee side every single f***ing time. And it's very protective. As long as your employee doesn't hit you, steals from you or does any kind of felony, you can't sue him. Generally, NA people find that our laws are very socialistics in a way. Actually they are but our left-wing politicians here do think it's not enough ^^
In France, I guarantee you that you can break any contract without risking much.
To make it shorter, I'd say that Stephano or M† won't be sued at any time by col.
T_T True. This makes me sad that they reacted by saying ignore the contract. Whatever the circumstances in which it was signed, short of in danger of life, he signed the contract. What a bad view to just say forget the contract next day. I was so excited too for the Millenium program starting on Thursdays here. Now I am just a bit sad.
On September 20 2011 06:25 gulbanana wrote: it's a JOB. you are allowed to quit a job, if you want, because in 2011 most people aren't slaves. in france, you have the right to quit a job without notice within the probation period. even without that he could have just given notice, and been "on complexity" for 2 weeks! how would that have been substantially different?
Umm yes you can always quit your job, but there are consequences.
For example a soccer or baseball player chooses not to play they have every right to do that, they cannot however go and play for another team.
they actually can do that, unless the other team chooses to not employ them. the reason that people can't typically do this in soccer is because the teams form leagues which agree to monopolise employment of players. in starcraft 2, no such monopoly of owners has been formed. it probably will coalesce, eventually; that's what KESPA was to starcraft 1.
Respond to the people with actual legal knowledge so we may destroy you, thanks,
On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote: Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really?
Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me
I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all..
Med School at 18 isn't the norm.
It is over here, and I'm pretty sure it is in France as well
EPT
