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On September 20 2011 06:57 DW-Unrec wrote:
why do they want that guy so much? he's not that good
He just 2-1'd MMA in the IPL today...
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Well you know if we got the amounts he was going to be paid we could help him out with the decision:D::D:D:D
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Everything is so fast here...
On September 20 2011 06:58 Apom wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:43 Piotr wrote:
Hi guys, french guy is talking here, so sorry for my poor english. I studied some labor law here in france in my graduate school.
First of all I would like to say that if Stephano signed a legal contract in US, the French jurisdiction will certainly understand that and claimed that it is perfectly legal (unless it is against international treaties but it's obviously not). In fact when you are hired by a foreign company, you have to choose with your employer which country do you choose for the law. If you don't, the law is the one where you do your job. If you move a lot for your job, the law is where your company is. (Convention of Rome)
The determination of the law court is totally dependent of the choice made for the applicable law. Stephano can ask to bring the case behind a French court but this one will take the foreign basis to decide. (still convention of rome)
... The Rome Convention ("Convention on the Law Applicable to Contractual Obligations 1980 ") only applies within the European Union, of which Texas is not part of. Since this convention is the basis if the rest of your (otherwhise well-thought) post, it's pretty much unapplicable.
Yes guy, but you have to read the following of my post.
When there is no law in France to deal with labor case, we use other cases. All the cases between France and an other country that I know are based on the convention of Rome unless if the foreign is breaking an other convention (for example for child work).
I will edit my first post so that you will understand it clearly.
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The attitude of millenium is beyond me
they act all like : we have a huge budget, first site after TL bla bla
french nationalism bla bla
but they never sent anyone anywhere, you never see any french in any tournament outside of france
ToD had issues with them about that at some point
and apperently "Lewellys stated that he doesn't plan on sending Stephano to lots of international event, and that he will focus on French events."
millénium is a useless team
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On September 20 2011 07:00 PantsB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:34 Tamotab wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Skeet11 wrote:
Man, I don't know who to call the bigger dick. Millenium for persuing Stephano after signing a contract with compLexity, or Stephano for actually turning his back from compLexity after signing the deal with them. And no statements from Mill or Stephano? Wtf. Llewellys (team manager/caster) from Mill just spent more than one hour to explain Mill position and answer live question from viewers about this mess. A lot of people asked him to post an official statement on TL, but basically he said he doesn't care what the international community thinks and that a few days from now all this drama will be forgotten/yesterday news. So your position is that the team manager already spent a great deal of time explaining everything and even if he didn't explain anything he doesn't care what the international community thinks anyhow? [...]
It seems that Llewelly/Mill cares about Millenium community more than international community. It may seems an odd choice but Millenium is apparently more concerned about the (small) french scene, and there business model seems okay so why not...
(personally i would prefer that Millenium gets more known internationally, like mouz for example)
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I don't understand why it's such a big deal. If Stephano signs a contract and then within 24 hours decides against it then why is it so bad to have him be able to break the contract? It's not like there are any damages done to Complexity, since the time period was too short for him to compete in any event or anything. Because after Stephano breaks the contract he is in the exact same situation as he would have been in had he not signed it in the first place.
Rather, I see a lot of people from the USA being ignorant of the fact the rest of the world doesn't have as terrible consumer protection as them. All this talk of "a man is only as good as his worth" and "you can't just walk away from a contract, that's not how the world works" are almost USA specific notions and you can't just impose them on others on an international forum.
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I don't think would want to sue the player, it might have repercussion on their players or the players they want to recruit later on. For Millenium it's a whole different story. But if it's a contractor contract, there is way to work around it for Millenium and Col without a lawsuit and I think that's what Millenium saw in the contract.
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On September 20 2011 06:33 Tanith wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:28 Chargelot wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
..... I don't understand why people like this get involved in the conversation, if they are so willfully ignorant that they don't understand the purpose or intents of a -- any -- business. You can't sign a contract, and then in less than a day after it's made public decline to follow through with your LEGAL obligations. It is illegal. I'm genuinely not sure you're old enough to use a website like TL. It sounds like a very childish thing to imply that any and all contracts made should be okay to break. There would be no point to having a contract if you could just walk away from your agreement. Did i say it was ok for him to break his contract ???? Did i say he acted legally? He acted immorally, unethically and broke his contract (legal or otherwise), I simply tried to point out that coL are better off without him and should just leave it at that, all this threat of legal action is doing is causing a shit storm over something which i think both parties could of handled internally.
i totally agree, but the fact of the matter is that you can't handle things internally when only one party is willing to do so, and the others ignoring that.
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On September 20 2011 07:03 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:01 najreteip wrote:On September 20 2011 06:51 justinpal wrote:On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote:
Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really? Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all..
Med School at 18 isn't the norm.
Edit. Ignore.
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On September 20 2011 07:02 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:02 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:36 havox_ wrote:On September 20 2011 06:33 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? do you somehow genuinely think that people should just sign a _legal contract_ and be allowed to just say "fuck it I don't need to do it lolololol" what century are you from? stephano did not sign a legal contract. he signed something a jumped-up american idiot thought would bind him under Texas law. doesn't work that way, and no french court would extradite him for it. And the Australians would say that it's perfectly fine to not hold on to an agreement, cuz you found a loophole in it? That's amazing =) that's how the law works, yes. should courts go by the "spirit of an agreement"? it's unworkable. in this case, we're not talking about minor loopholes either, but massive, fundamental problems. so by "massive fundamental problems" you mean "not in french"? K.
- the contract wasn't in french
- it attempted to subject the employee to a different country's labour laws
- it had the form of a contract for fixed service provision, but the function of employment
- it made no provision for specification or limitation of a probationary period, yet purported to apply from the date of witness
we have been told all these things by compLexity representatives. any of them, alone, would be sufficient to void the document.
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On September 20 2011 06:57 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:56 NiarKal wrote:On September 20 2011 06:53 Thugtronik wrote:On September 20 2011 06:44 Koorb wrote:
- Lewellys stated that he doesn't plan on sending Stephano to lots of international event, and that he will focus on French events. Tbh this is the part that bothers me the most in all of this. Stephano is a fucking amazing player an should be given the opportunity to compete in as many international events as possible Well don't be bothered, that part is false. Stephano will go to international tournaments. Oh really, your source?
I listened to Millenium's manager, and he clearly said he was OK with Stephano going to Korea one or two months, if he had the opportunity.
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On September 20 2011 07:06 Ubes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:03 Ruscour wrote:On September 20 2011 07:01 najreteip wrote:On September 20 2011 06:51 justinpal wrote:On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote:
Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really? Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all.. Med School at 18 isn't the norm.
No it is?
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Great player, hope these two teams don't mess up his enthusiasm towards the game.
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all this drama, so few competent people online or so it seems cuz the whole pro gaming community is rather small and this shit always blows up big time :3
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On September 20 2011 07:06 Ubes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:03 Ruscour wrote:On September 20 2011 07:01 najreteip wrote:On September 20 2011 06:51 justinpal wrote:On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote:
Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really? Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all.. Med School at 18 isn't the norm.
Depens where you live, i knew quite a few people who started med school at 18. Starting uni at 18-19 isent that uncommon in denmark at least
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On September 20 2011 07:05 Cyrak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:58 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:55 Cyrak wrote:On September 20 2011 06:51 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:32 blade55555 wrote:On September 20 2011 06:30 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:27 blade55555 wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 WightyCity wrote:
maybe he just signed without reading. i do that all the time. lol you don't do that when you are doing a legally binding contract like that. fortunately, france provides its citiens legal protections for mistakes made in haste. stefano made a mistake, alright, but it needn't be life-destroying. why do you think it should be? Sorry when your an adult if you are not reading a legally binding contract and then just signing it you deserve the consequences. Why do you think he doesn't? I mean this is just dumb on his part. it wasn't a legally binding contract. further, young adults don't "deserve consequences" for briefly-made, quickly-regretted decisions to seek employment, if they change their mind in a timely manner. He's 18. At what age exactly do you want people to take responsibility for their actions? I honestly question what planet some of you immature simpletons live on. i don't want people of any age to be required by a decision made early in the morning to work for months or years, without a chance to change that. fortunately, french law - and that of most first-world nations - agrees with me. Most first world nations don't have entrenched socialist political systems in which the whim of a worker supercedes a legal contract they signed. Thank god for that.
Actually i believe that most of europe would have what you call "entrenched socialist polical systems". They can sometimes be misused by workers but they're there to protect regular people against being fucked up the ass by coorporations and most people, at least in sweden, want it that way.
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An important thing is, even if Stephano would have been 22 and the contract he signed would have been totally legal (international,US and french right) which apparently is not, there always must be some kind of retractation possibility (within 1 month or whatever). So, the only thing Stephano has to do, is to say to CoL : "Sorry but i changed my mind".
I also would like to add that CoL never directly contacted Millenium in this matter which seems to be really bad mannered. For example, EG contacted Liquid for Huk transfer and Liquid contacted Millenium before for Huk transfer.
PS : sorry for my english
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On September 20 2011 07:06 Ubes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:03 Ruscour wrote:On September 20 2011 07:01 najreteip wrote:On September 20 2011 06:51 justinpal wrote:On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote:
Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really? Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all.. Med School at 18 isn't the norm.
in france, medical school begins at an undergraduate level. this is also true in australia, and many other places.
there's a common theme in this thread: people assuming that the way things work in their country is the way they do, and should, work everywhere else.
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On September 20 2011 07:04 Snorkle wrote:Jason Lake on reddit posted this when asked about how Stephano signed the contract. Show nested quote +It was a digital contract executed via Docusign.com. Beyond that, I'm not going to get into the legal options we believe that we have. I will say, however, that Millennium's recent live remarks seem to imply they may need a new legal team. I am pretty sure millennium is about to get its ass kicked.
Awesome. None of their shills in this thread can save them if Jason decides he wants to stand up for contracts in e-sports.
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On September 20 2011 07:05 Full.tilt wrote:
"We first contacted Stephano" That's were the problem begins, if a player is on a team under some water tight contract or not, interested teams should be contacting the team management first.
If he is not under contract, which he wasn't, then the interested team has 0% obligation to contact them. Thats the teams fault for not having a contract to protect their players.
When will teams learn? Just have them sign a contract...
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EPT
