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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103) Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there. | ||
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dafunk
France521 Posts
On September 20 2011 06:51 justinpal wrote: Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really? Actually the funny thing is that he lied about this too. He isnt going to med school at all and didnt even finished college when he said it... The guy is a liar and a kid, thats all :/ | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:12 Cyrak wrote: If this situations turns out to be as it appears once the dust has settled I think it'd be great if IPL revoked Stephano's spot in the finals. Since contracts with players seem to be absolutely meaningless it lies with the tournament organizers to enforce a set of standards for the SC2 'industry.' Day by day I think the foreign scene is learning why KESPA was actually a good idea. I've got a better idea. Let's just kill Stephano and launch a nuclear missile on France. Paris would be good. Too much assholes there. Totalitarianism makes me giggle. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Bone.be
Belgium64 Posts
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Aquilla
69 Posts
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Himali
France12 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:13 Ym!r wrote: [/b]They chose to tell him the contract is garbage, pretending it's in Stephano's favor to stay with Millenium, when it's not, they don't have half the opportunities coL could provide him Finally, as said by Millenium : " LET S FOCUS ON THE FRENCH LANS" Some people says that the american aren't aware of the world outside of USA, but what about France ? That's seriously selfish from Millenium, they are killing Stephano's carreer, one year in SC2 is a LOT That is just unfair, you obviously do know nothing about both team audience reach and fan base development. | ||
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EvOr
France48 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:12 Koorb wrote: The only mandatory mention in an employment contract are, according to French labor law: - What job the employee does - The professionnal qualification of the employee - His wages - The collective agreement that contract is related to - If it's a CDI or a CDD. And that's it. Mention to probatory period is not mandatory. According to complexity it's a contractor contract, (en français prestataire), which means the only thing that should be in the contract is the service they want and how much money they will pay for this service. And our australian buddy gulbanana actually read this statement and made an informative and accurate post according to this. | ||
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ZestyPickle
United States104 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:14 gulbanana wrote: on what basis are you making this guarantee? US Law. Go look it up. Please. Its valid in the US. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:14 Himali wrote: That is just unfair, you obviously do know nothing about both team audience reach and fan base development. Neither do you. | ||
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Brettatron
Canada159 Posts
Contract law is contract law. Hopefully we can build some precedence so that this does not occur. As best as I can tell, it all comes down to where the contract was made. If it was made in France then their law will apply, which, if the thread is to be believed, has some sort of grace period where you can back out. Determining where it was made would be a matter of HOW it was made. There is precedence set for verbal, by phone, by fax, by mail, by telegram, by email... pretty much by any sort of communication. I can't remember at the moment, but if it is by email I BELIEVE the contract is made once the offeree (Stephano) sends the email, which would mean the contract is made where he sends it, IE France. I could be wrong on that, I'd have to review my contract law. I'm curious how the contract was made now. That, to me, is the key to this. Oh also, someone mentioned this earlier in the thread but the lawsuit isn't going to require "specific performance" IE force Stephano to play for coL. That would be silly, we all agree. And damages would be hard to prove in this case. There is no way of knowing if he would bring in any sponsors or win any tournaments. But they MAY be able to get punitive damages, to discourage this sort of thing from happening again. But, as mentioned by a previous poster, it is uncertain whether Mil has the money to pay it. So it might all be for naught. | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:11 gulbanana wrote: workers' rights supersede contract law - at least, everywhere other than the USA. contracts exist only as allowed BY law, and a nation's rules for employment, as democratically enacted, limit what is possible in a contract. i'm entirely in my right to call it barbaric to allow people to sign away years of their lives with no recourse. i don't believe that even america really allows that - you're just ignorant enough to think it does. I'm done responding to you after this. This is the last I will say to you because you seem like a troll to me. You can, and people do, leave contracts all the time. There is usually a settlement and agreement when that happens, based upon what was written in the contract. The problem here is that they are completely ignoring the contract, which if legally binding is a huge problem. You need to quit acting like you know if it's legally binding or not. | ||
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Cyrak
Canada536 Posts
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:12 EvOr wrote: Thanks, people should look up the country of the poster, it will save them time. In France you start medical studies at University at 17/18 depending if you're born before October or not (some people start earlier), and then you do 5/7(10+) years of studies to reache what you want, it takes dedication and memory guess what a starcraft pro gamer has ? And being a doctor pay better and longer than a stacraft 2 progamer right now, I'd be really surprised if the shit storm or a lawsuit ensues, if Stephano will stick with the game at a pro level. Aside from when you start, the same can be said for most countries. In America it starts at the graduate level, and in France it starts at the undergrad level. It's not that big of a deal, and we shouldn't argue over that. In the end either country gets highly trained, highly skilled doctors who are ready for their career in saving lives. | ||
Koorb
France266 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:08 Kaedeleus wrote: " Lewellys stated that he doesn't plan on sending Stephano to lots of international event, and that he will focus on French events." is a fake. Lewellys never say that I was on the stream. He said that stephano go to the french evant if he have the time He clearly stated that the whole purpose of Millenium is not to become a global team, that competes all over the world, but to improve the esport in France. He also said that he didn't plan on sending Stephano to more international events that he already had (i.e. only in European events). | ||
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gulbanana
Australia56 Posts
On September 20 2011 06:39 Kinetic42 wrote: the distinction between 'employee' and 'contractor' doesn't exist in that sense in france. workers, of any form, have rights - and can only be employed (or contracted) by valid contracts. You're thinking of this in the employment category, which this is "surely not". Stephano was acting more as an independent contractor. This means the contract would have mutual obligations from both sides, and be more similar to a business to business deal than an employee-employer contract. Do businesses just up and break contracts in your country? To think that some countries allow that is simply insane - you can really agree to do a job and then back out with no repercussions? Surely not. yes they do. the probationary period in french law - which exists in australian law, too - is for the benefit of the EMPLOYER as well as the EMPLOYEE. many businesses are quite happy to have the ability to fire someone without consequence in the first few weeks, should they decide to. | ||
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nooboon
2602 Posts
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:15 nooboon wrote: Out of curiosity, is Stephano considered a minor (if so if he is still under the protection of his guardian), or is he now a legal adult? he's 18.... so he's a legal adult (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_majority) | ||
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gulbanana
Australia56 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:14 ZestyPickle wrote: US Law. Go look it up. Please. Its valid in the US. united states corporations do not have the ability to apply u.s. labour law to french citizens working in france. nor do they want that ability, because of the precedent it would set for expatriates and temp-visa immigrants. | ||
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Cyrak
Canada536 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:14 Otolia wrote: I've got a better idea. Let's just kill Stephano and launch a nuclear missile on France. Paris would be good. Too much assholes there. Totalitarianism makes me giggle. I find it funny that your society (or perhaps it's just you) is so primitive that abiding an agreement that you willingly enter into is considered 'totalitarianism.' | ||
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ZestyPickle
United States104 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:15 Cyrak wrote: Is there anyone with actual legal knowledge in this thread (ie: not high school armchair internet lawyers) who can shed some light on whether complexity could sue in US court to bar Stephano from getting any gaming related VISA to the US for tournaments? They can sue for punitive damages because of a breach of content, they wont be able to bar him from the US probably but defiantly levy monetary compensation or tournament entry restrictions perhaps. | ||
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Kieofire
United States1809 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:13 gulbanana wrote: it wasn't a legally binding contract. there's more to making a contract legally binding than a piece of paper, some words, and a signature. those words must have valid form, and legitimate function. If it has the signature of the person who agrees to it then it is legally binding, what do you not understand? | ||
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