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On September 20 2011 05:13 Zalitara wrote:http://www.frenchlaw.com/employment_law.htm says this about hiring in France. Can't see anything about having a month to change your mind, but it seems all contracts have to be in french. Can coL have fucked up on this maybe? Hiring
It is necessary in France to provide a written contract of employment to all staff of whatever grade or level.
In the event that there is no written agreement, then a contract of employment is nevertheless held to exist and the employee will systematically benefit from the maximum protection provided for by the law.
The contract of employment must be in French, even where both employer and employee use the same language which is not French.
There is no restriction on providing a translation or a bilingual version of the agreement to the employee, but the French version will always prevail before the Courts and vis-à-vis the French Employment Inspection Authorities.
Contracts of employment are virtually always for an indefinite term and specific agreements for short limited term employment are tightly regulated, for example it is possible to offer a limited term agreement to a person replacing another employee on maternity leave, or for instance to employees taken on for a particular seasonal sales period.
However, limited term agreements may not be renewed more than once otherwise they will be held to become indefinite term agreements.
I appreciate this link, but I don't think it can be trusted. Is there a link to an official policy on the French government's website or something?
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I don't really think that's all about french scene. It's Millenium Col and stephano problems not a french fact!
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On September 20 2011 05:13 Maxtor wrote:
That is just really making a mockery of e-sports, a legally binding contract is exactly that, its not a handshake deal, stephano knew what he was signing, if the contract isnt honoured id really want to know the consequences.
This attitude seems to be common. Yet, last I checked, contracts are not slavery, and one can leave a work contract at anytime, without repercussions. The fact a contract is "legally binding" doesn't make one a slave.
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On September 20 2011 05:14 MandoRelease wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:04 Koorb wrote:
BTW, Millenium's manager is saying on stream right now that he doesn't intend to send Stephano in international event more than he used to, and will focus on the french scene. Oh please, the french scene is exactly what player should avoid. Millenium's manager really fails to see all what's wrong in that scene. A shame.
No offense to the ''French scene'' but their isn't really one.
Hell, I'll even admit theirs no ''Swedish scene'' and i think it's fair to say SC2 is bigger here.
The Swedish scene is basically international. Yes we have Dreamhack but it's for everyone, not just us swedes. And that's the way it should be 
And all the Swedish pros basically fly around the world competing. Alot of them anyway.
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On September 20 2011 05:13 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:03 meRz wrote:On September 20 2011 05:01 Macpo wrote:
Apparently, French law allows any worker to retract from a contract within 30 days.
To give my 2 pence opinion, why couldn't someone change his mind? Every one does. and here it does not have any serious consequences. There isn't much at stake, no big deal, no money loss... just promises and business honour (i.e. nothing). Of course, Col are disappointed, but no one is dead.
How does this not have serious consequenses? Like coL states this would create a precedent that players can just come and go as they want. Do you seriously see that working well? There is absolutely no risk whatsoever that players can just come and go as they want... 1. players can actually already come and go as they want, because if they don't want to play, no one can force them, all they can do is stop paying them; 2. it's just that they are getting paid, so they prefer not to go "as they want" and stay where they are paid. 3. I can promise you stephano will do it once, not twice, because it's a very annoying situation for him. Now if you can't understand that someone may change his mind... But I have remarked, there is always some kind of hysteria when someone is doing things not as expected... People start promising the entire world will collapse and then nothing happens, because this is the smallest event ever (the bigger one being Stephano beats MMA )
... Yeah and then they run into a new team 2 weeks into their contract that wants to pay the player even more, you think it'd be beneficial to the scene if said player can just leave his current team and go stay with a new team "Because they are getting paid". ?
It's not promises about the entire world going to shit, it's just a bad development and in the long run it WILL hurt esports. Why the fuck do you think KeSPA exists in S.korea, why do you think there are international sport organisations regulating this in any other sport?
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On September 20 2011 05:12 ArnaudF wrote:
Btw it's Millenium not Millennium, god damnit!
Sorry that people assume it's spelled correctly.
Millenium is not a word.
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On September 20 2011 05:15 Hipsv wrote:
What this shows me is that Stephano is just a kid, he obviously didn't seriously consider the legal and non legal ramifications of his actions and as a result flopped on his decision.
I too at 18 did lots of flopping on big decisions (nothing as legally binding), so I can sympathize with his situation, however I also realize that its youthful irresponsibility that caused this whole situation whether or not his fans or the coL haters want to admit it. I can't imagine what it would be like to be young and have big amounts of money thrown at you to play a game you enjoy, but its also his responsibility to carefully decide his course of action and to follow contracts he signed.
I think that what coL should take from this is that they really need to be thorough when dealing with players from other countries at explaining their contracts and what it means. They absolutely have a right to either pursue Mill to buy out his contract or have Stephano play for them, however I personally think seeking Mill to buy the contract out is the more diplomatic approach.
Stephano definitely needs to grow up. Flopping on HUGE decisions like this makes him seem childish and it at least partially rubs off onto the scene. Staying true to your word (in most ordinary circumstances) is one of the most important aspects of being an adult and he definitely has not stayed true to his word to at least one party here.
Mill definitely needs to learn about contract law at least, and idk it seems like they pressured him into staying
best summary so far.
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Llewellys (Millenium manager) is currently talking about this on Millenium TV stream.
- According to him, coL never contacted them
- It concede that Millenium or Stephano may have acted in a poorly way, but explain that when wanting things to be done properly, the least thing is talking to all impacted sides and discuss.
- It has stated that the so called "contract" is not even "real" professional contract, and probably has many clauses that make it void
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On September 20 2011 05:13 Maxtor wrote:
That is just really making a mockery of e-sports, a legally binding contract is exactly that, its not a handshake deal, stephano knew what he was signing, if the contract isnt honoured id really want to know the consequences.
The whole point is though under French law that contract wasn't worth the paper it was written on, he basically signed his name on a napkin to get a nice salary bump from Mil. What he Stephano did was pretty shitty in the eyes of everyone here it seems, in all honesty if he was happy at Mil and used coL to get a salary boost then good on him, smart head for an 18yr old kid!
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On September 20 2011 05:17 two.watup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:12 ArnaudF wrote:
Btw it's Millenium not Millennium, god damnit! Sorry that people assume it's spelled correctly. Millenium is not a word.
We'll have to settle this in court. FRENCH COURT!
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All of this just so there can be something to talk about on SotG this week? Seems like a bit much...
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On September 20 2011 05:12 eauxlune wrote:
If Mill has the audacity to hide behind the borders of their country
lol
On September 20 2011 05:12 Daeno wrote:
Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, yet another black eye for sc2 "esports". Way to make us look good you selfish pricks.
That's growth for you. Welcome to real sports where this happens every transfer window. That's all we ever wanted, right?
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On September 20 2011 05:12 Koorb wrote:Lwl states again that there is a signed contract between Stephano and coL, but that the contract wasn't complying with french labor law, that millenium staff showed the loopholes of the contract to stephano, and that stephano therefore decided to cancel his agreement.
Oh noes.
Now why doesn't millenium *talk* to coL about their mistake, and tell them why, instead of both Stephano and Mellenium just *ignoring* coL.
(which just escalates the problem)
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On September 20 2011 05:14 zhurai wrote:
> signs a contract
> doesn't follow through
..............................
> French scene
There was a french scene?
There is a scene, but it is really insular and isolated from the rest of us.
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I have no idea who Stephano is (haven't been following the scene for awhile) but just based on the two letters written by the two teams in the OP, it seems as if Stephano decided by himself to join Complexity, then Mill got all flustered that he would leave them and talked him into breaking the contract and staying instead. Just as Mill said that he was young and confused and got "disoriented" about signing the contract, it sounds in the same way that Mill took advantage of this same thing and talked him back into staying.
I'd say Complexity is in the right here based on what I've read so far, and I feel bad they they might have to do something that will make people angry at them, just because another team disrespected their contract and took back a player that they just legally signed.
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At the end of the day I am not a lawyer but my partner Jason Lake is. Lot's of people can always say that a contract is "badly" written or it has "no value" but what I can say is that our contract very clearly spells out what we will provide and what is expected from the player. So maybe the focus should be on if someone understands the offer and accepts the offer and then signs the contract, that is probably a tad bit more important than if some clause that is necessary for a French contract is missing.
The intention of a contract is for an offer and acceptance as well as all that is required of both parties and I can safely say that our contract spells all of that out very clearly. There is no doubt that he was getting what he asked for and he should have had no doubt what he was asked for in return. I spoke to him for weeks and answered all questions. So sure we could all spend our lives focusing on something that is not worded correctly or something that is "missing" because I can assure you there is probably not a "perfect" contract out there. The more important issue is did he know what he was being asked to do and did he know what he was receiving in return and did he subsequently sign the contract and agree to the terms as they were? And the answer in this case is absolutely.
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Wait a minute. The french pro player is surrendering from his international contract and retreating back to a french team?
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Well he got what was negotiated during the 18 days still ^^
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On September 20 2011 05:14 zhurai wrote:
> signs a contract
> doesn't follow through
..............................
> French scene
There was a french scene?
All I can picture is MoMaN, Stephano, Adelscott and ToD playing a round robin and drinking expensive wine. 
Seriously though, there are a handful amount of medium/high profile french tournaments, but I'm sure no one comes even close to considering the French scene one of top tier potency.
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EPT
