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On September 20 2011 23:12 Adila wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:11 oxaolga wrote:
Everybody say M say lie and Col say truth. But if it is the reverse. Stephano is young, he don't know about the difference of a US and a french contrat. He can see the french contract proposed by M is better than the Col contract. So stephano can't change his choice? In the French law he can. So he do.
If the thing say on the M tv was true, the contract was signed at 5 am in France. It is early in the day to do it for a young man like stephano.
For my opinion, we don't know the true story before a long long time. 5 AM is early for an 18 year old? Really? People are still partying at 5 AM...
Not in France. Every 18 year old french child goes to sleep at 7PM.
We go to the church, praise the lord, eat, then sleep. Please respect our culture.
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On September 20 2011 23:11 oxaolga wrote:
Everybody say M say lie and Col say truth. But if it is the reverse. Stephano is young, he don't know about the difference of a US and a french contrat. He can see the french contract proposed by M is better than the Col contract. So stephano can't change his choice? In the French law he can. So he do.
If the thing say on the M tv was true, the contract was signed at 5 am in France. It is early in the day to do it for a young man like stephano.
For my opinion, we don't know the true story before a long long time.
Everything you said makes him look like a total dumbass, and does not help him look better rofl.
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On September 20 2011 23:12 Zalithian wrote:
I find it quite funny how some people from France are like "HAHAHA COL GOT OWNED." Like it's braggable that Mil stole a player under contract. I don't see how CoL got owned by officially contracting a player, and then having the player decide it doesn't matter that he signed the contract. Even worse is that a "Professional" sports team seems to not only be okay with stealing him, but seems to be proud of it. I feel bad for the legit French posters on here, because a lot of them are offering reasonable insight into the situation, and aren't blinded by some weird sense of gaming nationalism.
Don't get me wrong. Plenty of people all both sides have pretty terrible attitudes here. Why on earth does anyone from France consider this situation a positive thing? Any French poster who blindly considers this an acceptable action really should do some introspection. Pretty sure if an American did this, he would be getting smashed in the face by French posters, saying how Americans have no respect, loyalty, etc.
Yeah i feel ashamed of those people, as a lot of people do, but again, this kind of douchebags exist everywhere. My opinion is that these people are low age little idiots who don t really realize what they are saying and are a bit narrow minded, Mill is the only real french pro team. That's why they are pretty happy about keeping a good player like Stephano.
I'm not sure about how an american would get smashed by french posters, it's not true, we are not going after nationalistic witch hunts generally on the other side i consistently have to defend my country when speaking on english boards cause of the general intolerance and hatrance toward France.
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On September 20 2011 22:37 DarkSaga wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 22:35 Boardin wrote:Thats not a statement. They called Col's official website, reddit, and TL news posts gossip. They provided no transparency into what happened. They essentially said fuck you to the TL and its readers, yourself included. If they actually had something positive to say, they would have said it. mate` they are gossips, since everybody is just sharing they re opinions without having any real information.
And instead of providing said "real information" to clear the air, Millenium instead tells us to act like there's nothing to talk about and disregard the topic.
Fucking shady is what it is.
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Please close this thread !
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On September 20 2011 23:17 Merlimoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:15 Boardin wrote:On September 20 2011 22:47 Dawg_Snow wrote:
I agree that the signature of the contract and then backing off was a blunder and that this issue could have been handled in a better way.
I don t like the fact that complexity posted so fast on TL their recruitment without even noticing Millenium about it.
I think Millenium was only fighting back to keep their player, they have nothing to be ashamed off as a team, they can ship him to any tournament he wants to and support him greatly as well.
But i would REALLY like a statement from Stephano to explain himself, maybe it will cool off all the haters on TL which ahave 0 tolerance and keep on saying : "yeah ban him from any tournameent" "yeah let s destroy the kid career because he couldn't decide".
And also, to all the racist that use this issue to troll over France and split their hatrance towards a nation, go grow a brain.
Let the both teams resolves this matter internally, this should never have leaked on public boards, it concerns only the both teams and the player and not all the population of sc2.
I think the hate towards france is because most people in this thread who are supporting M have France in their profile. Most people who aren't, don't. yes I'm from the US and I dont even particularly like Col, but I think at this point they seem much more innocent then M. It is easy to see how people reading this thread would assume you are only defending M because you are french, I'm not saying this is true, but it probably is the general sentiment A lot of french people (all?) actually bashed Millenium!!! The ones saying crap on France, are mainly US, and it has no ground. As usual...
That's not what I've read. Regardless, I dont care if Millenium was the US national team or the North Korean national team, as far as the current facts go, unless Stephano's mom was held at gunpoint when he made his decision M commited a pretty egregious action in signing a player under contract.
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On September 20 2011 23:17 Aliosh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:12 Adila wrote:On September 20 2011 23:11 oxaolga wrote:
Everybody say M say lie and Col say truth. But if it is the reverse. Stephano is young, he don't know about the difference of a US and a french contrat. He can see the french contract proposed by M is better than the Col contract. So stephano can't change his choice? In the French law he can. So he do.
If the thing say on the M tv was true, the contract was signed at 5 am in France. It is early in the day to do it for a young man like stephano.
For my opinion, we don't know the true story before a long long time. 5 AM is early for an 18 year old? Really? People are still partying at 5 AM... Not in France. Every 18 year old french child goes to sleep at 7PM. We go to the church, praise the lord, eat, then sleep. Please respect our culture.
is this a joke ?
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On September 20 2011 23:20 ~_~ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:17 Aliosh wrote:On September 20 2011 23:12 Adila wrote:On September 20 2011 23:11 oxaolga wrote:
Everybody say M say lie and Col say truth. But if it is the reverse. Stephano is young, he don't know about the difference of a US and a french contrat. He can see the french contract proposed by M is better than the Col contract. So stephano can't change his choice? In the French law he can. So he do.
If the thing say on the M tv was true, the contract was signed at 5 am in France. It is early in the day to do it for a young man like stephano.
For my opinion, we don't know the true story before a long long time. 5 AM is early for an 18 year old? Really? People are still partying at 5 AM... Not in France. Every 18 year old french child goes to sleep at 7PM. We go to the church, praise the lord, eat, then sleep. Please respect our culture. is this a joke ?
yes
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On September 20 2011 23:20 ~_~ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:17 Aliosh wrote:On September 20 2011 23:12 Adila wrote:On September 20 2011 23:11 oxaolga wrote:
Everybody say M say lie and Col say truth. But if it is the reverse. Stephano is young, he don't know about the difference of a US and a french contrat. He can see the french contract proposed by M is better than the Col contract. So stephano can't change his choice? In the French law he can. So he do.
If the thing say on the M tv was true, the contract was signed at 5 am in France. It is early in the day to do it for a young man like stephano.
For my opinion, we don't know the true story before a long long time. 5 AM is early for an 18 year old? Really? People are still partying at 5 AM... Not in France. Every 18 year old french child goes to sleep at 7PM. We go to the church, praise the lord, eat, then sleep. Please respect our culture. is this a joke ?
I think it is considering Aliosh is french (i think) ;p
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On September 20 2011 23:20 Boardin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:17 Merlimoo wrote:On September 20 2011 23:15 Boardin wrote:On September 20 2011 22:47 Dawg_Snow wrote:
I agree that the signature of the contract and then backing off was a blunder and that this issue could have been handled in a better way.
I don t like the fact that complexity posted so fast on TL their recruitment without even noticing Millenium about it.
I think Millenium was only fighting back to keep their player, they have nothing to be ashamed off as a team, they can ship him to any tournament he wants to and support him greatly as well.
But i would REALLY like a statement from Stephano to explain himself, maybe it will cool off all the haters on TL which ahave 0 tolerance and keep on saying : "yeah ban him from any tournameent" "yeah let s destroy the kid career because he couldn't decide".
And also, to all the racist that use this issue to troll over France and split their hatrance towards a nation, go grow a brain.
Let the both teams resolves this matter internally, this should never have leaked on public boards, it concerns only the both teams and the player and not all the population of sc2.
I think the hate towards france is because most people in this thread who are supporting M have France in their profile. Most people who aren't, don't. yes I'm from the US and I dont even particularly like Col, but I think at this point they seem much more innocent then M. It is easy to see how people reading this thread would assume you are only defending M because you are french, I'm not saying this is true, but it probably is the general sentiment A lot of french people (all?) actually bashed Millenium!!! The ones saying crap on France, are mainly US, and it has no ground. As usual... That's not what I've read. Regardless, I dont care if Millenium was the US national team or the North Korean national team, as far as the current facts go, unless Stephano's mom was held at gunpoint when he made his decision M commited a pretty egregious action in signing a player under contract.
Actually, it is under the responsability of Stephano.
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On September 20 2011 23:19 Merlimoo wrote:
Please close this thread !
Millenium would definitely love that to happen, wouldn't you.
Good thing there's such a thing as free speech and everyone here has the right to debate this topic - you can't just go around and attempt to smother discussion like that.
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It's unfortunate that some people from both sides have to be immature. I think most people who look at the situation objectively will come to the conclusion that this is not good for e-sports, and not something that should be condoned in general. I'm not going to go through 100+ pages to find specific examples of French people being proud of what Mil did. If certain people don't believe it, that's fine.
Again, appreciate the French/American/whatever nationality people who can be somewhat objective and mature in this situation.
I don't really have anything to offer in terms of legal insight.
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On September 20 2011 23:20 ~_~ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:17 Aliosh wrote:On September 20 2011 23:12 Adila wrote:On September 20 2011 23:11 oxaolga wrote:
Everybody say M say lie and Col say truth. But if it is the reverse. Stephano is young, he don't know about the difference of a US and a french contrat. He can see the french contract proposed by M is better than the Col contract. So stephano can't change his choice? In the French law he can. So he do.
If the thing say on the M tv was true, the contract was signed at 5 am in France. It is early in the day to do it for a young man like stephano.
For my opinion, we don't know the true story before a long long time. 5 AM is early for an 18 year old? Really? People are still partying at 5 AM... Not in France. Every 18 year old french child goes to sleep at 7PM. We go to the church, praise the lord, eat, then sleep. Please respect our culture. is this a joke ?
... kinda obvious, no ? (or maybe your asking is a joke itself ? ^^)
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This is indeed confusing, but it should like Millenium is saying Stephano's original contract was non expiring, just an option for Stephano to leave. In this case, Complexity's contract would be invalid. Of course this could be all a legal BS to get around the fact that Stephano signed something.
Also, from a legal perspective, a contract is also invalid if the party was pressured or wasn't not fully aware of things. So Millenium will defenitely be playing this part up.
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On September 20 2011 22:55 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 22:39 Merlimoo wrote:On September 20 2011 22:35 rO_Or wrote:On September 20 2011 21:59 Merlimoo wrote:On September 20 2011 21:47 Ryder. wrote:On September 20 2011 19:46 Apom wrote:On September 20 2011 13:53 Ryder. wrote:On September 20 2011 13:34 Crosswind wrote:On September 20 2011 13:07 Ryder. wrote:On September 20 2011 12:30 Crosswind wrote:
Dear Citizens of the Internet,
It may shock some of you to hear that sometimes 18-year olds are inconsistent. It may amaze you that teams run by people who are largely ex-gamers and self-taught amateur businessmen may not live up to your standards of professionalism. But rest assured - this is not the first time these things have happened, and it will not be the last. Some might go so far as to say that these things happen
all the time.
Hating 18-year-olds for changing their minds or fledgling organizations for lacking professionalism is like hating a dog for chasing cars. Probably justifiable, but ultimately silly.
Smile, and cheer for Stephano, who is a fantastic and promising player, or for Mill/CoL, who are excellent teams giving young players opportunities.
-Cross Dear uninformed citizen of the internet, It may shock you to hear this but at 18 years old (at least where I live) you have full capacity to contract and you are legally bound by the terms you enter into in contracts. ... I mean if you are 18 and you commit murder you are able to be punished as an adult because you ARE an adult. Doesn't matter if you were 17 four months ago, you gotta draw the line somewhere. Sure these acts are different... teams run by people who are largely ex-gamers and self-taught amateur businessmen may not live up to your standards of professionalism. No excuse champ, if you are gonna play with the big boys then you abide by their rules. Ignorance is no excuse. Just FYI, in case you missed it, you just compared an 18 year old going back on a contract, something that it is not even clear is illegal, to murdering somebody. How much of a douchebag are you going to feel like when it turns out that what he did wasn't even illegal, so not only are you flipping out over some amateur hour teams and a kid, but you're flipping out incorrectly? A little perspective here, people. -Cross (P.S. I have no opinion on accountability. But the amount of hate going on for parties involved is disproportionate. You all are making far too much out of a bunch of commonplace, unsurprising events.) As I said, I don't know shit about French law, if they have some dodgy loopholes to help people avoid their contractual obligations good for them. But in most countries breach of contract IS illegal and you are legally obliged to either fulfill the contract or pay damages. Of course the severity of the act is nothing close to murder, why the fuck would you try and act like it is? The point is both of these actions are illegal, and you can't just let one of them go unpunished because it is less severe. As I said I am going by what is law in Australia (as well as a lot of other places). If French law lets you get out of this then fine, but the point I was addressing is that you think it's ok for 18 year olds to renege on their promises because they feel like changing their mind, and that is wrong*. *excluding gay loopholes in French lawEdit: Just because it is a 'commonplace, unsurprising event' doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences.
I want to say I'm worried that stephano hurt his image by making a silly choice, but I know people will forget in a week. I am kind of disappointed that stephano went back on his word
You can bet your ass future, prospective teams won't though... I'm sure it will factor into their decisions in the future. How aren't you banned for this yet ? :/ Also, people who are saying that you can evade contractual obligations under French law are starting to get annoying. As a general rule, you can't. Someone said you have seven days to change your mind about buying a house : that is true, but is an exception. This provision, known as droit de repentir (right to renege ?), only applies to a set of specific contracts, of which buying a house is one, but Stephano's contract certainly is not. A related clause, known as période d'essai (trial period ?), can be specified in employment cotnracts, but it is not mandatory nor implicit. The only way for Stephano to evade his contractual obligations with coL is if the contract is deemed illegal in the first place. While it certainly doesn't qualify as a proper employment contract under French law (for numerous reasons - coL even somewhat admitted to this), it is designed as an international contract, and it may very well be legal as such, especially under Texan law (which it defines as its ruling law). The last issue here is enforceability. If the contract is deemed legal by the Texan judge (which is very likely), and the French judge deems it an illegal employment contract (which is also very likely), then the contract will be null on French soil. What can be done if, and when, Stephano sets foot in the US, is another matter. Lol trust a french poster to insist I should be banned for that... It was clearly a tongue-in-cheek comment, you really think I should be banned about making a snide joke about French law? Particularly since most people in this thread (excluding the French of course) think that this kind of loophole IS stupid due to the way their respective legal system works... Your post is interesting though, there are a lot of posts ( especially from French posters) say that because of French law he IS able to squirm out of the contract due to this '7 day cool-off period' and there is nothing coL is able to do about it. So it is interesting that you (as a French poster) seem to insist that he isn't able to get out of it. Do you have any special knowledge of law that gives you this opinion? Also why would a French judge classify it as illegal employment contract? (Genuine questions, I am just interested as every other French poster has said that Stephano will be able to get out of this contract). Is it a cultural habit to put words in the mouth of others ? Before it get worse, with frenchies vs world none sens, please note that many of "french" posts were just saying that we have some laws that can IN SOME CASES be more protective of the people instead of the corporation, that have an all mighty power in the US culture. And I'm pretty sure that we are not the only ones... Anyway, as such, signing a contract in not the end of the story. Please note, that we (as everybody here) dont know sh** about Stephano's one. So please stop saying that we are sure that he can escape his mistakes. As every balanced human being would think, if everything was done correctly, by no means he can escape this, except the fact that is would be pretty stupid from coL to recrut somebody that does not want to be there. Personal trollish note: + Show Spoiler +
As the US culture is, I think they just want a some financial compensation, for having managed to get a click on a website from a guy far far away...
This has nothing to do with the US and corporations. This has to do with integrity. In the US (not too sure about France) when you sign a contract it is assumed that you did your research beforehand and knew what you were signing to. Once you have given your signature it is confirmation that you have READ, UNDERSTAND, and AGREE to the terms you have signed. This is the way business works, either in a large multimillion dollar corporation or in the smallest independently run store. If you have read the thread until then, please, try to envision the fact that the whole world does not necessarily work like in the US. And by all mean, thanks god. Are you really trying to say that in France, when you sign a contract, it's actually assumed that you didn't read, understand and agree to the terms? In that case, what do you think it means to sign a contract? I'm pretty sure in France it would mean the same thing, unless France is actually some kind of alternate universe. Also not sure why you would 'thanks god' that contracts are apparently meaningless in France. Imagine you signed a housing contract, but right after you move in you get kicked out for no reason. "This isn't the U.S., buddy! Contracts don't mean the same thing here!" But I'm pretty sure things don't work that way in France, either. Would be hilarious if they did.
Contracts are not meaningless in France, not at all. Contracts are just a bit more "flexible" for BOTH parts.
And it work like this in France, in any contract, you can breack it a short time after signing for free (it's not so simple but it's close).
After this short time, if you break the contract and the other part refuse it, then the other part can ask for compensations.
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On September 20 2011 23:21 Merlimoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:20 Boardin wrote:On September 20 2011 23:17 Merlimoo wrote:On September 20 2011 23:15 Boardin wrote:On September 20 2011 22:47 Dawg_Snow wrote:
I agree that the signature of the contract and then backing off was a blunder and that this issue could have been handled in a better way.
I don t like the fact that complexity posted so fast on TL their recruitment without even noticing Millenium about it.
I think Millenium was only fighting back to keep their player, they have nothing to be ashamed off as a team, they can ship him to any tournament he wants to and support him greatly as well.
But i would REALLY like a statement from Stephano to explain himself, maybe it will cool off all the haters on TL which ahave 0 tolerance and keep on saying : "yeah ban him from any tournameent" "yeah let s destroy the kid career because he couldn't decide".
And also, to all the racist that use this issue to troll over France and split their hatrance towards a nation, go grow a brain.
Let the both teams resolves this matter internally, this should never have leaked on public boards, it concerns only the both teams and the player and not all the population of sc2.
I think the hate towards france is because most people in this thread who are supporting M have France in their profile. Most people who aren't, don't. yes I'm from the US and I dont even particularly like Col, but I think at this point they seem much more innocent then M. It is easy to see how people reading this thread would assume you are only defending M because you are french, I'm not saying this is true, but it probably is the general sentiment A lot of french people (all?) actually bashed Millenium!!! The ones saying crap on France, are mainly US, and it has no ground. As usual... That's not what I've read. Regardless, I dont care if Millenium was the US national team or the North Korean national team, as far as the current facts go, unless Stephano's mom was held at gunpoint when he made his decision M commited a pretty egregious action in signing a player under contract. Actually, it is under the responsability of Stephano.
I agree, the majority of the blame must fall on him
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On September 20 2011 22:59 Merlimoo wrote:
It's astonishing to see the amount of US citizen that really can't be open minded and listen/understand to what we say to them. Just because it's not like that at home,
I was thinking the very same thing about the aw shucks he didn't mean to sign it, he is just a kid, it was late, he didn’t have a good night sleep, he didn’t sign with an EU approved felt pen made in France and dipped in Ink from Portugal so it means nothing apologists 
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On September 20 2011 23:22 Bobster wrote:Millenium would definitely love that to happen, wouldn't you. Good thing there's such a thing as free speech and everyone here has the right to debate this topic - you can't just go around and attempt to smother discussion like that.
Yeah! You are right, as powerful person inside the Millenium mafia, I have to admit that this thread is the only thing that prevent us from buying coL and leading our top french team to world #1.
High five for dumb thread!
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No i agree, i saw some kids being proud of this and tickling CoL about it,
I respect both CoL and Mill and i hope it will resolves in a good way
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