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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103) Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there. | ||
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Dandy_Moustachu
France422 Posts
After a long discussion, Stephano understood his mistake and decided to stay with Millenium for the next 12 months Since a lot of people quote this part of the Millenium first declaration, i check the french version and the french one just says that they talk with Stephano nothing about a LONG discussion So or this part is mistranslate, or Millenium change their news. (and after all the hate against Millenium i'm pretty sure everyone gonna says that they change it) | ||
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Merlimoo
France192 Posts
On September 20 2011 23:24 mechavoc wrote: I was thinking the very same thing about the aw shucks he didn't mean to sign it, he is just a kid, it was late, he didn’t have a good night sleep, he didn’t sign with an EU approved felt pen made in France and dipped in Ink from Portugal so it means nothing apologists  If you want to quote, have the honesty to quote everything or signal that it was cut. Congratz! You've level up in "Mainstream media ninja technic"! | ||
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Woshie
Australia90 Posts
On September 20 2011 23:24 Boardin wrote: I agree, the majority of the blame must fall on him Yes it is Stephano's fault. But a rational person would not make a judgement error like that without a high amount of pressure being applied or false information (perhaps of how valid the contract is or even how the other party would react). Unless of course I'm giving Stephano too much credit here and he really is that naive/stupid. | ||
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Elinda
France4 Posts
I mean Stephano changed his mind, he clearly did a mistake but where are col damages? I mean it's not as if Stephano broke the contract 2/3 month after it started, col hasn't spent 1$ yet. We oftenly hear in esport and sport that a player quit his team before the end of his contract and nobody never make a drama about it even if it's much more scandalous than stephano's case. Well, in conclusion i think that there were unprofessionnal manners between stephano, col and Millenium but nothing that deserve this much. PS: Sorry for my english :s | ||
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SolidMustard
France1515 Posts
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Merlimoo
France192 Posts
On September 20 2011 22:17 Merlimoo wrote: We don't care about the law or the teams that both want the good player and will try anything (appropriate enough) to get him. Stephano has sh** in the bed. He is young and I'm willing to forgive him. Just to remember that in fact, we tend to all agree. | ||
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Dawg_Snow
France425 Posts
On September 20 2011 23:28 Elinda wrote: Am i the only one thinking that there is too much drama about this contract? I mean Stephano changed his mind, he clearly did a mistake but where are col damages? I mean it's not as if Stephano broke the contract 2/3 month after it started, col hasn't spent 1$ yet. We oftenly hear in esport and sport that a player quit his team before the end of his contract and nobody never make a drama about it even if it's much more scandalous than stephano's case. Well, in conclusion i think that there were unprofessionnal manners between stephano, col and Millenium but nothing that deserve this much. PS: Sorry for my english :s Agree 100% | ||
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Agathon
France1505 Posts
On September 20 2011 23:28 Elinda wrote: Am i the only one thinking that there is too much drama about this contract? I mean Stephano changed his mind, he clearly did a mistake but where are col damages? I mean it's not as if Stephano broke the contract 2/3 month after it started, col hasn't spent 1$ yet. We oftenly hear in esport and sport that a player quit his team before the end of his contract and nobody never make a drama about it even if it's much more scandalous than stephano's case. Well, in conclusion i think that there were unprofessionnal manners between stephano, col and Millenium but nothing that deserve this much. PS: Sorry for my english :s Nice, couldn't say it better ! +1 | ||
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leo23
United States3075 Posts
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PtitDrogo
France163 Posts
There is a declaration on the millenium website : The Millenium Staff http://www.millenium.org/starcraft-2/accueil/actualites/statement-on-the-stephano-situation-51050 Edit : oh sorry, just found on the thread | ||
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hephaestos
France54 Posts
Why make a contract if you can get out of it? The whole idea of a contract is to be legally binding, and it is a system put in place to promote consistency and certainty, in that what you sign up for is what you get. Of course it does, but it only means there is a cost if you fail to enforce your contract, and the cost has to be proportionate to the loss of the other contractor. | ||
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Serashin
235 Posts
and he join Mill as Zerg , problem solved. | ||
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rO_Or
United States306 Posts
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Agathon
France1505 Posts
On September 20 2011 23:29 SolidMustard wrote: @ My fellow french citizens : please stop embarassing yourselves and just accept that Stefano seriously messed up on this whole thing... Did we say otherwise? | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On September 20 2011 23:23 SolidMustard wrote: ... kinda obvious, no ? (or maybe your asking is a joke itself ? ^^) It was either a joke or a troll post. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On September 20 2011 23:25 Merlimoo wrote: Yeah! You are right, as powerful person inside the Millenium mafia, I have to admit that this thread is the only thing that prevent us from buying coL and leading our top french team to world #1. High five for dumb thread! On September 20 2011 23:29 Merlimoo wrote: Just to remember that in fact, we tend to all agree. Oh my, you're trying awfully hard to discredit this thread. Also funny to berate someone for [mis]representing information in order to further his own viewpoint and then turn around and call 71 people (of which only 48 agree with your viewpoint) "we all" in a thread with over 2800 posts. People like you tend to rub mods the wrong way - this thread is now more likely to stay open because you're trying to downplay it. Congratulations. | ||
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Dandy_Moustachu
France422 Posts
On September 20 2011 23:29 SolidMustard wrote: @ My fellow french citizens : please stop embarassing yourselves and just accept that Stefano seriously messed up on this whole thing... Stephano totally fucked up there. But i don't understand why Millenium (and the french) receive all the hate. | ||
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
Where stuff gets messy is the termination or non-termination of the oral contract or the possible obligation to terminate the pre-existing terminable contract after signing a new one that's incompatible. Any legal battle here is likely going to be long, messy and fierce unless there are very direct precedents. I'd like to stress that as far as what is and what is not a contract, any French oral contract, as long as binding in French law, shouldn't be seen as somehow inferior to an American contract. (As far as the French go, please remember they aren't immigrants sitting in Texas for 20 years, talking the language and living under the law, they are foreigners right in their own country thousands of miles away, with possibly an 18 year old that managed to sign a Texas contract (signed, sealed and delivered or constructive signing online?).) What's generally messy in cross-national contracts is the typical virtuality of the place of execution (info for Europeans: execution of a contract, in English, is the act of signing it into force, not the act of carrying it out, which is called performance), as well as the choice of law, jurisdiction of courts etc. I can't say I'm a great fan of a French 18 year old adolescent, with who knows what kind of command of English, signing a Texas contract (was it SSD or was it online constructive signing? was it translated for him? in fairness, there's talk about it having been explained to him, which is good). Remember we're talking about an 18 year old student (or until recently student, I don't know) that plays a computer game after hours (even if that's 8 hours), not a Hollywood-style celebrity that hires a staff of lawyers while still a teenager. However, it's nice to hear that the contract was explained to him. IMHO it would be optimal for players to receive legal counsel in such cases. Especially if the counterparty has a staff of lawyers. Plus, there should be some arbitration in place, as in e-sports specific, like it sometimes happens in sports. Inconvenient for a sponsor/clan/gaming house to go cross-continent to sue, still more inconvenient for a French kid (no disrespect intended but let's look at facts) to be sued in Texas, should that ever happen. Such cases had better be decided on fairness principles that go beyond any legal system and without relying on formalities, technicalities and other intricacies of any single legal system that are obscure to foreigners. (Or everybody pick Korean law and Korean courts. Lol.) Mediation also could help. All three actors would sit down and jointly sweat their foreheads over a solution that respects everybody's interests and rights. This is the way I believe this should be handled. Speaking of mediation, a textbook case is when there are exactly 2000 bananas or oranges or whatever. Then there are two parties, each of which needs to get exactly 2000 units for some kind of pharmacological research or production of a cure for something bad. There are only 2000 units available. As you explore the case in mutual talks (if you get that deep, that is), it proves the one pharma needs the skins and the other needs the pulp, so not even a 50/50 split but everybody gets what he needs with just some added effort and creativity. This isn't likely to be the case here but double clanning has not been unheard of. Give the guy two nicks and have him alternate? While at it, perhaps make it somewhat harder than full time work to understand what it takes to be involved with two teams at once (120% work time jointly?)? Generate an exchange platform for French and American (EU and NA) players and teams? Like in the game, it would be the best to learn from the embarrassing situation to become a better gamer. (As in overcome the mutual feelings of hurt and offence and jointly do something good to win together over the bad. And help esports for the future with the solution you arrive at.) | ||
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Merlimoo
France192 Posts
On September 20 2011 23:32 rO_Or wrote: Irregardless of law and who is right or wrong legally, don't people (French included) feel that this whole situation really hurts French E-sports and it's future ability to grow? Every other big sc2 team looking to grow internationally is going to avoid french players like the plague if contracts are allowed to be voided after signing. Obviously everyone has to respect French law and realize that this situation may be 100% legal but Mill must see that this situation will stifle their relations with foreign teams quite a bit. And that would be fine if they had no intention of going international but from their statements it seems that they desire to grow. IMO, it won't change anything. It's not like this is the first time that is has happened in the world. And the world still have grown, doesn't it ? Just stop of being scared of everything. | ||
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Asca
Brazil14 Posts
Well, hard decision to Stephano anyway, he had to choose between the ones who made him what he is and the future he could have. :o my bad english is bad :| | ||
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