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On September 20 2011 07:36 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:31 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 07:30 gulbanana wrote:
i'm not "speaking for france". i'm not french, as you guessed. i'm speaking up to say that stephano shouldn't be vilified for making an error of judgement then quickly changing his mind - and that compLexity shouldn't be making insane legal threats with no knowledge of the protections conferred on workers by nations other than the usa. Except you're making random comments about french law. therefore you kind of are. Also On September 20 2011 07:20 gulbanana wrote:
france doesn't care whether you care whether contracts are in french. On September 20 2011 07:30 gulbanana wrote:
i'm not "speaking for france" Hmmm... Really..... you don't have to be french to research french law, although jason lane might disagree.
Yeah, you're "researching" French law. Guess you admit that your confident posts from a purported position of knowledge were actually hastily researched drivel.
You're trying to incite strife in this thread. You had 1 post before this thread. Nothing else needs to be said. You're an irrelevant poster and you post legal drivel that nobody should take serious.
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On September 20 2011 07:42 Prplppleatr wrote:
Not to hate on the french, but...
Their French...what did you expect...lol this is hilarious for the simple fact that they are french..
...well i guess I am hating on the french, but FFS people when you do shit like this, how can you wonder why other parts of the world just shake their head and look away (not that were any better..but)
i mean signing a contract rescinding and not honoring that contract with claim that you it was a bad move, then singing a contract with out an expiration date...no offense stephano but get a full-time attorney if you are that clueless and can not see the utter stupidity in that
Not to hate on the french, but...
then continue to hate on the french...
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On September 20 2011 07:39 Nouar wrote:
They ARE planning to send Stephano to IPL3
By "they" do you mean IGN?
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On September 20 2011 07:42 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:37 Gheed wrote:On September 20 2011 07:34 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:31 ZestyPickle wrote:On September 20 2011 07:30 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:28 anGe wrote:On September 20 2011 07:18 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 07:17 anGe wrote:On September 20 2011 07:08 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:06 Ubes wrote:
[quote]
Med School at 18 isn't the norm. in france, medical school begins at an undergraduate level. this is also true in australia, and many other places. there's a common theme in this thread: people assuming that the way things work in their country is the way they do, and should, work everywhere else. Well you don't know jack about France apparently. What you're saying about how you can quit your job at any time baffles me. You have to come to an agreement with your company otherwise it's legal for them to sue you so stop posting really because you're making a fool out of yourself. Not to mention that you keep speaking of the contract but I'm quite sure you didn't see it and if you did I have to agree with the guy saying you're from Mil. And even if you are you don't know anything about international law and that's a shame. well it does say his country is Australia ... Well that's my point, this guys keeps speaking for France when he's obviously not French. Because if he is, he better be trolling... @EvOr, and if you don't do your "pré-avis"'s time they will sue you. The only thing that could "save" Stephano is the retract time of the contract (if there was one to begin with). i'm not "speaking for france". i'm not french, as you guessed. i'm speaking up to say that stephano shouldn't be vilified for making an error of judgement then quickly changing his mind - and that compLexity shouldn't be making insane legal threats with no knowledge of the protections conferred on workers by nations other than the usa. I get it now, Australian communist party? did you just accuse me of being a card-carrying communist? like this was freaking 1950 or something? have i posted through a timewarp into the mccarthy hearings? 40 of your 50 posts have been in this thread and you keep whining about labour. And you deny being a communist. That certainly sounds like something a communist would do, doesn't it? An American with a warped idea of what a communist is What a surprise
Lol, I'm just kidding. This kid is obviously a troll or extremely biased. I'm not going to respond to his posts seriously.
I even used italics, come on people. Italics weremade for sarcasm.
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some of these younger progamers really need to learn what a contract is. It's not something you can sign and then walk away from whenever it is convenient for you (Major).
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I just want throw out there that Dan snyder owns the redskins and Dan Gilbert owns the cavs... thats all.
But hopefully they can find a way to settle this issue out of courts (likely with a large sum of money)
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On September 20 2011 07:39 Chloroplaste wrote:Stop Flame on Millenium guys : Millenium said they will send him on all big tournaments all other the world where he can be, There WILL BE Stephano on MLG, IPL etc... They always said they WILL SEND Stephano to KOREA if he wants to train 1or2monthmax or specially if he won a GSL spot ! They also announce about their future Gaming house in Marseille that they have maybe found one but they are looking for answer about the connection and more, and it is a 400m² gaming house ! It will be open to players of other teams to train together and they may do a lan like Homestory Cup =) Millenium is doing a lot to develop Esport in France and in general, They develop cup with their sponsor with top EU players and will develop bigger lans tournament in future  (like that one MSI Pro Cup #2 ) Millenium and Stephano FIGHTING !!!
Can someone explain to what 400m² gaming house means?
Anyways, did Millenium post all these new efforts somewhere? What pisses a lot of people off isnt this whole legal thing, its the fact that Stephano had a chance to do something great with coL, and then he didnt have that chance anymore. And people don't know if Mill can offer Stephano that chance since they are less organized abroad.
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On September 20 2011 07:44 Avs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:39 Chloroplaste wrote:Stop Flame on Millenium guys : Millenium said they will send him on all big tournaments all other the world where he can be, There WILL BE Stephano on MLG, IPL etc... They always said they WILL SEND Stephano to KOREA if he wants to train 1or2monthmax or specially if he won a GSL spot ! They also announce about their future Gaming house in Marseille that they have maybe found one but they are looking for answer about the connection and more, and it is a 400m² gaming house ! It will be open to players of other teams to train together and they may do a lan like Homestory Cup =) Millenium is doing a lot to develop Esport in France and in general, They develop cup with their sponsor with top EU players and will develop bigger lans tournament in future (like that one MSI Pro Cup #2 ) Millenium and Stephano FIGHTING !!! Can someone explain to what 400m² gaming house means? Anyways, did Millenium post all these new efforts somewhere? What pisses a lot of people off isnt this whole legal thing, its the fact that Stephano had a chance to do something great with coL, and then he didnt have that chance anymore. And people don't know if Mill can offer Stephano that chance since they are less organized abroad.
four hundred square meters of living space i assume
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On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:28 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? I live in the 21st century where contracts (should) mean something. So no, I don't think if you sign a contract saying you'll be with a company for x days/months/years/whatever, that you can quit said contract whenever you want. Not with out consequences at least. barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not.
You're not making much sense. Anyone can quit their job in the U.S.
The issue here is related to sports law and how contracts are handled. Do you think a football player from Ligue 1 Bordeaux can sign a contract for a year and leave after 1 week only to join a Lyon immediately? No, even in French law contracts are respected. People here are just saying the same thing should be the standard for Esports. I understand your criticism of U.S. labor law, but with all due respect that has nothing to do with this situation.
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Dude made 1 post and it's a Millenium advertisement. Carry on.
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On September 20 2011 07:39 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:34 bkrow wrote:On September 20 2011 07:25 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:17 Kieofire wrote:On September 20 2011 07:13 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:38 keioh wrote:On September 20 2011 06:33 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:
[quote]
you forgot
now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind"
do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? do you somehow genuinely think that people should just sign a _legal contract_ and be allowed to just say "fuck it I don't need to do it lolololol" what century are you from? stephano did not sign a legal contract. he signed something a jumped-up american idiot thought would bind him under Texas law. doesn't work that way, and no french court would extradite him for it. So a legally binding contract is not a legal contract ? Shit, world doesn't make sense anymore. Hate will prevail as usual. it wasn't a legally binding contract. there's more to making a contract legally binding than a piece of paper, some words, and a signature. those words must have valid form, and legitimate function. If it has the signature of the person who agrees to it then it is legally binding, what do you not understand? that's false. contracts are legal documents in which two or more parties agree to exchange goods or perform services; that's all. they can only promise certain things, and can only operate in certain ways. if you just write some words on a piece of paper and sign it, that's no guarantee it will have any legal meaning. Well considering we are all making wild assumptions; let's have a go. Complexity is apparently a professionally run organisation that is employing contracts to retain and sign players; Jason Lake has been in this business a long time, and has had players poached and sniped (read: Counter strike) - he knows what's involved. I assume (<-- grand assumption) this was not just some napkin with a few scribbles on it with some dollar signs - it may have been properly drafted. A properly drafted contract will usually specify which country's laws are to apply in the event of a dispute so the fact that you just keep assuming all of the stuff you've spouted in this thread is pretty hilarious. The French and US legal systems are two completely different systems founded upon fundamentally different ideas; i can keep pretending that i know all the details and what will happen but that seems to be your job. There are so many possibilities in this scenario that how you are coming to your conclusions is pretty impressive - maybe there was a cooling off period? Maybe, if US laws apply, there is a ton of weight behind Stephano's signature being on the document (having something signed is a big deal in contract law in terms of consent and understanding the agreement) or maybe Stephano didn't sign anything and this is a massive conspiracy against team Mill i suspect mr. lake believed that his contract was valid, and would apply in france. it does seem strange that he'd make such a rookie mistake, but my guess is they haven't had this particular problem in the past and so never had to learn about international employment law. after all, the contract would've been valid if stephano was a french *expatriate* who'd *willingly* moved to the u.s. to play starcraft.
Yeah because Jason Lake is a rookie right? Oh wait...
Stephano might be untouchable in France which will prolly be the case but in the U.S.? Not so much.
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On September 20 2011 07:43 blooblooblahblah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:42 Prplppleatr wrote:
Not to hate on the french, but...
Their French...what did you expect...lol this is hilarious for the simple fact that they are french..
...well i guess I am hating on the french, but FFS people when you do shit like this, how can you wonder why other parts of the world just shake their head and look away (not that were any better..but)
i mean signing a contract rescinding and not honoring that contract with claim that you it was a bad move, then singing a contract with out an expiration date...no offense stephano but get a full-time attorney if you are that clueless and can not see the utter stupidity in that Not to hate on the french, but... then continue to hate on the french...
and i said in that same paragraph that i am hating on the french...so i guess sorry that i just didnt say that to start, i was just trying to be funny and bring some lightheartedness to the conversation
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On September 20 2011 07:44 Avs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:39 Chloroplaste wrote:Stop Flame on Millenium guys : Millenium said they will send him on all big tournaments all other the world where he can be, There WILL BE Stephano on MLG, IPL etc... They always said they WILL SEND Stephano to KOREA if he wants to train 1or2monthmax or specially if he won a GSL spot ! They also announce about their future Gaming house in Marseille that they have maybe found one but they are looking for answer about the connection and more, and it is a 400m² gaming house ! It will be open to players of other teams to train together and they may do a lan like Homestory Cup =) Millenium is doing a lot to develop Esport in France and in general, They develop cup with their sponsor with top EU players and will develop bigger lans tournament in future (like that one MSI Pro Cup #2 ) Millenium and Stephano FIGHTING !!! Can someone explain to what 400m² gaming house means?
It means that it's a 400 square meters house with gamers living inside of it
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I hope stephano stays in CoL. Much better for him.
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On September 20 2011 07:23 IndoorSpawningPool wrote:
Did anyone read this part of the Millennium letter?
Stephano will sign, as agreed a CDI(Contrat a duree indeterminee, ie: a contract of work with no expiration date) as a "Professional player," identical to those signed by professional sportsmen. He will travel across the world to attempt to win many tournaments, from Asia to the USA. We put our hopes and dreams of a French victory on him, but we also expect a lot from our other Starcraft players and our soon to be League of Legends team...
what's up with this no expiration contract?
There are basically 2 types of contracts CDD (durée déterminée) and CDI as stated above. Basically a CDD is something you sign when you get a job that says I will work for you from today for the next 3 months (for example could be longer). It's harder to find apartments etc with a CDD than a CDI which says you will work for us until you are ready to quit, however you will give us 1 2 or 3 months of notice depending on what level of employee you are. It doesn't mean he has to stay with them for ever into eternity, just that he isn't only limited to work there for 3 months or a year
Edit* It's like getting a full time job in the US but you sign a contract stating limits and guaranteeing that you will give advanced notice of departure. It's a good thing... the difference between a temp hire and full time.
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On September 20 2011 07:45 taLbuk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:44 Avs wrote:On September 20 2011 07:39 Chloroplaste wrote:Stop Flame on Millenium guys : Millenium said they will send him on all big tournaments all other the world where he can be, There WILL BE Stephano on MLG, IPL etc... They always said they WILL SEND Stephano to KOREA if he wants to train 1or2monthmax or specially if he won a GSL spot ! They also announce about their future Gaming house in Marseille that they have maybe found one but they are looking for answer about the connection and more, and it is a 400m² gaming house ! It will be open to players of other teams to train together and they may do a lan like Homestory Cup =) Millenium is doing a lot to develop Esport in France and in general, They develop cup with their sponsor with top EU players and will develop bigger lans tournament in future (like that one MSI Pro Cup #2 ) Millenium and Stephano FIGHTING !!! Can someone explain to what 400m² gaming house means? Anyways, did Millenium post all these new efforts somewhere? What pisses a lot of people off isnt this whole legal thing, its the fact that Stephano had a chance to do something great with coL, and then he didnt have that chance anymore. And people don't know if Mill can offer Stephano that chance since they are less organized abroad. four hundred square meters of living space i assume
4300 square feet house isnt too bad assuming thats living space and not the lot size.
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There is something that dosen't seems to be taken into account: between a contractor contract (offered by CoL) and a CDI (offered by Mill) there are tons of differences.
I don't really know much about a contractor contract but from what I've been ready it dosen't appear to offers many guaranties or employment security.
Concerning a CDI it offers a minimum salary of 1.365 euros (1.073 euros neat of taxes), we can pretty much assume that it won't be much higher as in addition to that Mill will have to pay social charges of aprox 400euros (35% of the salary ). But this also means that Stephano will no longer contracted to mill as he was before, he will be employed by the structure.
It means that:
- If at any given time in any given future, millenium decides to get rid of him, they will have to pay a huge amount of money (roughly 6 to 12 months salary including taxes at the very least)
- It can appear meaningless, but he is actually saving up for pension
-Once he will not be employed by mill (including if he his recruited by another team without a similar contract) he will receive welfare checks of 80% of his salary during the upcoming 6 months.
-It will appear as "legitimate" job on his CV if he ever have to search for a "real job", as it is a very restraining contract for the employer
To my knowledge he will be the first progamer to receive a CDI in french esport history. On CoL point of vue, I guess that they offered much more cash than millenium did (maybe 2, 3 or 4k) and that they are in there right to sue, but it seems to me that is millenium taking the most risks here, by betting so much on Stephano's career.
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On September 20 2011 07:46 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:44 Avs wrote:On September 20 2011 07:39 Chloroplaste wrote:Stop Flame on Millenium guys : Millenium said they will send him on all big tournaments all other the world where he can be, There WILL BE Stephano on MLG, IPL etc... They always said they WILL SEND Stephano to KOREA if he wants to train 1or2monthmax or specially if he won a GSL spot ! They also announce about their future Gaming house in Marseille that they have maybe found one but they are looking for answer about the connection and more, and it is a 400m² gaming house ! It will be open to players of other teams to train together and they may do a lan like Homestory Cup =) Millenium is doing a lot to develop Esport in France and in general, They develop cup with their sponsor with top EU players and will develop bigger lans tournament in future (like that one MSI Pro Cup #2 ) Millenium and Stephano FIGHTING !!! Can someone explain to what 400m² gaming house means? It means that it's a 400 square meters house with gamers living inside of it
400m^2 = 4,305.56417 square feet
It's actually pretty large. An average sized middle class suburban American home is between 1500 and 2500 square feet.
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On September 20 2011 07:44 Avs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:39 Chloroplaste wrote:Stop Flame on Millenium guys : Millenium said they will send him on all big tournaments all other the world where he can be, There WILL BE Stephano on MLG, IPL etc... They always said they WILL SEND Stephano to KOREA if he wants to train 1or2monthmax or specially if he won a GSL spot ! They also announce about their future Gaming house in Marseille that they have maybe found one but they are looking for answer about the connection and more, and it is a 400m² gaming house ! It will be open to players of other teams to train together and they may do a lan like Homestory Cup =) Millenium is doing a lot to develop Esport in France and in general, They develop cup with their sponsor with top EU players and will develop bigger lans tournament in future (like that one MSI Pro Cup #2 ) Millenium and Stephano FIGHTING !!! Can someone explain to what 400m² gaming house means? Anyways, did Millenium post all these new efforts somewhere? What pisses a lot of people off isnt this whole legal thing, its the fact that Stephano had a chance to do something great with coL, and then he didnt have that chance anymore. And people don't know if Mill can offer Stephano that chance since they are less organized abroad.
I believe that's around 4000 sqft.
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IF Stephano signed a legal contract and wants to breach it he is in some serious trouble.
U can't just randomly sign contracts thinking they don't mean stuff and go sign with other teams whenever you please.
That WOULD actually hurt E-sports on a professional level.
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EPT
