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On September 20 2011 07:42 Prplppleatr wrote:
Not to hate on the french, but...
Their French...what did you expect...lol this is hilarious for the simple fact that they are french..
...well i guess I am hating on the french, but FFS people when you do shit like this, how can you wonder why other parts of the world just shake their head and look away (not that were any better..but)
i mean signing a contract; rescinding and not honoring that contract with claim that you thought it was a bad move, then singing a contract with out an expiration date...no offense stephano but get a full-time attorney if you are that clueless and can not see the utter stupidity in that
Hey shut up, dont go fucking out and calling the french people idiots b/c of what A person did and what A team did. France has a long history (which I'm quite sure you do not know anything about) that has lead them to their laws of work they have right now.
I think Stephano has acted wrongly on this matter but thats no fucking excuse for you do go out and be racist towards an entire country.
edit: Wrote this before the banner was up...
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On September 20 2011 07:48 Cyrak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:44 Avs wrote:On September 20 2011 07:39 Chloroplaste wrote:Stop Flame on Millenium guys : Millenium said they will send him on all big tournaments all other the world where he can be, There WILL BE Stephano on MLG, IPL etc... They always said they WILL SEND Stephano to KOREA if he wants to train 1or2monthmax or specially if he won a GSL spot ! They also announce about their future Gaming house in Marseille that they have maybe found one but they are looking for answer about the connection and more, and it is a 400m² gaming house ! It will be open to players of other teams to train together and they may do a lan like Homestory Cup =) Millenium is doing a lot to develop Esport in France and in general, They develop cup with their sponsor with top EU players and will develop bigger lans tournament in future  (like that one MSI Pro Cup #2 ) Millenium and Stephano FIGHTING !!! Can someone explain to what 400m² gaming house means? Anyways, did Millenium post all these new efforts somewhere? What pisses a lot of people off isnt this whole legal thing, its the fact that Stephano had a chance to do something great with coL, and then he didnt have that chance anymore. And people don't know if Mill can offer Stephano that chance since they are less organized abroad. I believe that's around 4000 sqft.
its 20m wide and 20m long.
20x20=400
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On September 20 2011 07:32 Toxi78 wrote:
people need to stop with their high horses, no court is going to care about contracts that involve ridiculously low amounts of money in such a marginal case.
the us law as strong as it is won't force someone that is not even in the US to work for anybody, nor do they have the ability to break the french contract from a french employer to a french employee on french ground within french law.
also, it's much better for stephano as it is right now, and it should be seen as a step for esports : he has a REAL contract (not 1 year or 6 months contract) which has "no end".
I think you're mistaken, This isn't about a low amount of money, not everything in legal matters is, this is about his breach of contract, You should go read up on the legal matters of this situation, as for how it's better for stephano, he won't be able to show his face at international tournaments without people looking down upon him, The moral of this story is, don't sign a contract unless you're willing to abide by it, because the way I look at it, He's fucked now, His only option is school or the korean starcraft 2 scene, because as soon as he enters america, he is required to abide by their laws as will he be under the scrutiny of american law, Otherwards if he goes to america he can be indicted for Breech of Contract which in turn can lead to much more serious problems, Millennium has fucked stephano over by doing this, assuming that seeing as though he has committed a crime, he won't be able to play in any of the major American tournaments. Unless he were to play cross server from another country 
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I wonder if there's anyone here, who really knows what happened and if all the rage is justified in light of that. Contract law in my country has clauses that free you from honouring a contract if you have misjudged the contract or have been deceived. You still have to compensate for damage, but I'm pretty sure we can neglect that here.
So unless someone knows for sure the applicable country has such a system in their contract law and this situation meets the required criteria, I'd say chill out and see what happens next.
No need for the country hate. It's not their (whoever's) fault for the misunderstanding between two contract parties. ^^
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On September 20 2011 07:45 BuddhaMonk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? I live in the 21st century where contracts (should) mean something. So no, I don't think if you sign a contract saying you'll be with a company for x days/months/years/whatever, that you can quit said contract whenever you want. Not with out consequences at least. barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not. You're not making much sense. Anyone can quit their job in the U.S. The issue here is related to sports law and how contracts are handled. Do you think a football player from Ligue 1 Bordeaux can sign a contract for a year and leave after 1 week only to join a Lyon immediately? No, even in French law contracts are respected. People here are just saying the same thing should be the standard for Esports. I understand your criticism of U.S. labor law, but with all due respect that has nothing to do with this situation.
If anything it's single player sport. You shouldn't compare it with team sports because the stakes are not the same. A sc2 player represents mostly himself.
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I hope coL persues legal action and sues Stephano into the ground. The man signed a contract, and did everything needed to be a part of CompLexity, and then backs out and doesn't reply to anyone. What a piece of shit. Wanting to stick with your team is fine, but if you do then don't sign a contract with another team and then back out, making everyone look bad.
I've lost absolutely all respect for Stephano. I'll be cheering against the weasel every chance I get. Disgusting show of unprofessionalism.
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On September 20 2011 07:46 HotShizz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:23 IndoorSpawningPool wrote:
Did anyone read this part of the Millennium letter?
Stephano will sign, as agreed a CDI(Contrat a duree indeterminee, ie: a contract of work with no expiration date) as a "Professional player," identical to those signed by professional sportsmen. He will travel across the world to attempt to win many tournaments, from Asia to the USA. We put our hopes and dreams of a French victory on him, but we also expect a lot from our other Starcraft players and our soon to be League of Legends team...
what's up with this no expiration contract? There are basically 2 types of contracts CDD (durée déterminée) and CDI as stated above. Basically a CDD is something you sign when you get a job that says I will work for you from today for the next 3 months (for example could be longer). It's harder to find apartments etc with a CDD than a CDI which says you will work for us until you are ready to quit, however you will give us 1 2 or 3 months of notice depending on what level of employee you are. It doesn't mean he has to stay with them for ever into eternity, just that he isn't only limited to work there for 3 months or a year
Plus with a CDI they can't fire you like they want. I mean they still can but they need to have really good reasons (like the company has gone bankrupt or you violated the terms of the contract etc).
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It seems pretty obvious that Millenium (and Stephano) are in the wrong here. All this loyalty before law garbage. Reminds me of korea (in a bad way).
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Wow, a lot of people making new accounts so they can be complete dicks without revealing themselves, so many low post counts defending mill.
I'm just going to wait for the final result of this before passing a real opinion
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On September 20 2011 07:44 icedragon wrote:
I just want throw out there that Dan snyder owns the redskins and Dan Gilbert owns the cavs... thats all.
But hopefully they can find a way to settle this issue out of courts (likely with a large sum of money)
Why assume it'll end up like that? I know that when I was 17 in Canada I could sign any contract I wanted and then I could blow it off because I was a minor and therefore contracts were not legally binding. Try an international contract now... Laughable.
I don't know what French laws are like, but (with reserve) I would guess that Stephano can probably do whatever the hell he wants and there's no way in hell coL will be able to extort money from him for costing them OH SO MUCH MONEY AND EFFORT in the couple of hours he was part of the team.
I know that I, for one, wouldn't be very interested in being in coL for anything else than financial reasons. I mean, it really is a soulless organization, a business which just absorbs players to throw them at LANs -> collect ad revenue.
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On September 20 2011 06:42 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? I live in the 21st century where contracts (should) mean something. So no, I don't think if you sign a contract saying you'll be with a company for x days/months/years/whatever, that you can quit said contract whenever you want. Not with out consequences at least. barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not. How the fuck is it barbaric? It's absolutely civilized, you agree to something, you go through with it. You change your mind, you both discuss it and if the person you agreed to it with is alright with it, they let you off. If you're of age and not mentally handicapped, you're expected to have the ability to judge whether or not you want to commit to something. We've seen a mutual agreement to be released from a contract in the case of Destiny, in this case however, Mil and Stephano basically went behind Complexity's back and threw them under the bus. At this point, they have to take a stand to make sure that this shit isn't the norm. If you want this game and this community to forever be a bunch of kids playing some games for a bit of money, then it's fine, they should let it slide and let kids do whatever they want. But that's massively detrimental for eSports as a legitimate industry and sport.
judgement can be wrong. there are absolutely situations where it's crucial that workers have the right to leave an onerous job; consider someone who starts doing mining, or other hard physical labour, then finds that they're unable to hack it. or consider someone who starts getting sexually harassed in their workplace but is unable to prove it.
also, the labour market wouldn't work if people weren't allowed to quit jobs, since there would be no pool of labour!
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On September 20 2011 07:32 whoopingchow wrote:It is over here, and I'm pretty sure it is in France as well
In the U.S., one attends Med school after completing undergraduate studies at a university.
See:
http://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2010/05/10/international-contract-drafting-a-complex-headache/
In short, an international contract requires:
- a choice of law clause (Which nation's law will enforce this contract?)
- a choice of forum clause (Where will litigation of this contract be performed?)
- an Arbitration clause (allows for arbitration between two parties of different nationalities if both of their nations have signed onto the New York Convention [which most nations have])
- an Arbitration process clause (What issues are allowed to lead to go to arbitration, and how the arbitration process proceeds)
Basically, assuming CoL. drafted the contract properly, with proper notarization from both sides, they should be airtight. My worry for this is that Stephano agreed to the terms of the contract without a) consulting a lawyer, and b) a full understanding of everything that was required by the contract. It'd be a huge shame if this were the case.
Sigh, kids these days....it'd be like if Lebron did "The Decision" and then Dan Snyder then came out with proof that Lebron had actually signed a contract to stay with the Cavs until 2014. Who's really at fault here? In this case, it has to be Stephano. You can't blame Millenium for wanting to keep him, and assuming CoL. wrote up the contract properly, then they're blameless.
Of course, all of this is assuming CoL. drew up a proper contract. I hope this ends quickly and we can get on with everything.[/QUOTE]
Calm the fuck down guys....reposting for the sake of sanity and ACTUAL FACTS.
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On September 20 2011 07:43 wats0n wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:36 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:31 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 07:30 gulbanana wrote:
i'm not "speaking for france". i'm not french, as you guessed. i'm speaking up to say that stephano shouldn't be vilified for making an error of judgement then quickly changing his mind - and that compLexity shouldn't be making insane legal threats with no knowledge of the protections conferred on workers by nations other than the usa. Except you're making random comments about french law. therefore you kind of are. Also On September 20 2011 07:20 gulbanana wrote:
france doesn't care whether you care whether contracts are in french. On September 20 2011 07:30 gulbanana wrote:
i'm not "speaking for france" Hmmm... Really..... you don't have to be french to research french law, although jason lane might disagree. Yeah, you're "researching" French law. Guess you admit that your confident posts from a purported position of knowledge were actually hastily researched drivel. You're trying to incite strife in this thread. You had 1 post before this thread. Nothing else needs to be said. You're an irrelevant poster and you post legal drivel that nobody should take serious. no, i'm not trying to incite strife. i was driven to post, though i usually lurk, because i got upset about all the people in this thread who were saying that stephano had done something seriously wrong, and the ones who were supporting compLexity's legal threats. the 'legal drivel' is entirely relevant to the threats of lawsuit that jason lake has been making, which are a real, serious issue.
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I don't know everything of course, however I was a big fan of stephano, but if what col says is true I won't longer be, nor hope he gets into any leagues.
And this is not about just him, but esports requires a solid foundation of what's wrong and right and people should conduct business with mutual respect and in proper fashion. Anyone who can't do that is hurting esports.
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On September 20 2011 07:50 Capook wrote:
It seems pretty obvious that Millenium (and Stephano) are in the wrong here. All this loyalty before law garbage. Reminds me of korea (in a bad way).
Agreed!
Not sure about the legal side, but just a bad move on mil. and Stephanos part. Lost many fans because of this situation.
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On September 20 2011 07:50 Capook wrote:
It seems pretty obvious that Millenium (and Stephano) are in the wrong here. All this loyalty before law garbage. Reminds me of korea (in a bad way).
Tell us your arguments? I'm curious.
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On September 20 2011 07:51 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:42 Mordiford wrote:On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? I live in the 21st century where contracts (should) mean something. So no, I don't think if you sign a contract saying you'll be with a company for x days/months/years/whatever, that you can quit said contract whenever you want. Not with out consequences at least. barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not. How the fuck is it barbaric? It's absolutely civilized, you agree to something, you go through with it. You change your mind, you both discuss it and if the person you agreed to it with is alright with it, they let you off. If you're of age and not mentally handicapped, you're expected to have the ability to judge whether or not you want to commit to something. We've seen a mutual agreement to be released from a contract in the case of Destiny, in this case however, Mil and Stephano basically went behind Complexity's back and threw them under the bus. At this point, they have to take a stand to make sure that this shit isn't the norm. If you want this game and this community to forever be a bunch of kids playing some games for a bit of money, then it's fine, they should let it slide and let kids do whatever they want. But that's massively detrimental for eSports as a legitimate industry and sport. judgement can be wrong. there are absolutely situations where it's crucial that workers have the right to leave an onerous job; consider someone who starts doing mining, or other hard physical labour, then finds that they're unable to hack it. or consider someone who starts getting sexually harassed in their workplace but is unable to prove it. also, the labour market wouldn't work if people weren't allowed to quit jobs, since there would be no pool of labour!
OK, so you're equating Stephano's childish reneging on a contract to being sexually harassed at work or being subjected to unfair physical working conditions? Neither of those "examples" involve judgement either. Get real, although it might be an upgrade from your earlier political soapbox.
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Breaking contracts is (actually) killing eSports. You heard it here first.
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On September 20 2011 07:54 Vandalman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:50 Capook wrote:
It seems pretty obvious that Millenium (and Stephano) are in the wrong here. All this loyalty before law garbage. Reminds me of korea (in a bad way). Agreed! Not sure about the legal side, but just a bad move on mil. and Stephanos part. Lost many fans because of this situation.
Or a great manipulation move from CoL
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The moment I read about all this, I just attributed it to Stephano's age. He's 18 and probably just really immature, otherwise he would realize that a Man's word, or signature, is everything. Live up to it, or don't say it or sign it at all.
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EPT
