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On September 20 2011 07:49 Bellygareth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:45 BuddhaMonk wrote:On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? I live in the 21st century where contracts (should) mean something. So no, I don't think if you sign a contract saying you'll be with a company for x days/months/years/whatever, that you can quit said contract whenever you want. Not with out consequences at least. barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not. You're not making much sense. Anyone can quit their job in the U.S. The issue here is related to sports law and how contracts are handled. Do you think a football player from Ligue 1 Bordeaux can sign a contract for a year and leave after 1 week only to join a Lyon immediately? No, even in French law contracts are respected. People here are just saying the same thing should be the standard for Esports. I understand your criticism of U.S. labor law, but with all due respect that has nothing to do with this situation. If anything it's single player sport. You shouldn't compare it with team sports because the stakes are not the same. A sc2 player represents mostly himself.
Actually you're 100% wrong. Stephano was joining a team and thus was not representing himself. And are you actually arguing that players should be allowed to break contracts in single player sports with no consequences? Are you seriously arguing that?
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On September 20 2011 07:51 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:42 Mordiford wrote:On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? I live in the 21st century where contracts (should) mean something. So no, I don't think if you sign a contract saying you'll be with a company for x days/months/years/whatever, that you can quit said contract whenever you want. Not with out consequences at least. barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not. How the fuck is it barbaric? It's absolutely civilized, you agree to something, you go through with it. You change your mind, you both discuss it and if the person you agreed to it with is alright with it, they let you off. If you're of age and not mentally handicapped, you're expected to have the ability to judge whether or not you want to commit to something. We've seen a mutual agreement to be released from a contract in the case of Destiny, in this case however, Mil and Stephano basically went behind Complexity's back and threw them under the bus. At this point, they have to take a stand to make sure that this shit isn't the norm. If you want this game and this community to forever be a bunch of kids playing some games for a bit of money, then it's fine, they should let it slide and let kids do whatever they want. But that's massively detrimental for eSports as a legitimate industry and sport. judgement can be wrong. there are absolutely situations where it's crucial that workers have the right to leave an onerous job; consider someone who starts doing mining, or other hard physical labour, then finds that they're unable to hack it. or consider someone who starts getting sexually harassed in their workplace but is unable to prove it. also, the labour market wouldn't work if people weren't allowed to quit jobs, since there would be no pool of labour!
What does that even mean? Why are you discussing the merits and demerits of US labor law in this thread?
On topic: I really expected a statement from Mill by now, seeing as one is not forthcoming and Jason Lake has made it sound like they have even more ammunition now that Mill went out and made stupid comments on their stream things are looking worse and worse for Mill. Not sure if any defamation worthy actually happened as there are conflicting reports and I don't speak french but defamation can get you in a lot of trouble.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HtVvw.jpg)
Couldnt resist.
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On September 20 2011 07:55 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:54 Vandalman wrote:On September 20 2011 07:50 Capook wrote:
It seems pretty obvious that Millenium (and Stephano) are in the wrong here. All this loyalty before law garbage. Reminds me of korea (in a bad way). Agreed! Not sure about the legal side, but just a bad move on mil. and Stephanos part. Lost many fans because of this situation. Or a great manipulation move from CoL 
was gonna respond, but then i saw location: France, so obvious bias
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On September 20 2011 07:51 Djzapz wrote:
I don't know what French laws are like, but (with reserve) I would guess that Stephano can probably do whatever the hell he wants and there's no way in hell coL will be able to extort money from him for costing them OH SO MUCH MONEY AND EFFORT in the couple of hours he was part of the team.
Do people just not know the meaning of simple words anymore?
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i wonder what kind of money he was gonna get
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On September 20 2011 07:55 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:54 Vandalman wrote:On September 20 2011 07:50 Capook wrote:
It seems pretty obvious that Millenium (and Stephano) are in the wrong here. All this loyalty before law garbage. Reminds me of korea (in a bad way). Agreed! Not sure about the legal side, but just a bad move on mil. and Stephanos part. Lost many fans because of this situation. Or a great manipulation move from CoL
Your denying that stephano never verbally and signed some sort of obligation to coL.
Thats a shitty move on his part, no matter what the law says.
Bad for him bad for the sport.
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On September 20 2011 07:55 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:54 Vandalman wrote:On September 20 2011 07:50 Capook wrote:
It seems pretty obvious that Millenium (and Stephano) are in the wrong here. All this loyalty before law garbage. Reminds me of korea (in a bad way). Agreed! Not sure about the legal side, but just a bad move on mil. and Stephanos part. Lost many fans because of this situation. Or a great manipulation move from CoL
Or aliens that used their psychic powers in order to make Stephano sign the contract against his will
See I can do that too
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On September 20 2011 07:51 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:42 Mordiford wrote:On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? I live in the 21st century where contracts (should) mean something. So no, I don't think if you sign a contract saying you'll be with a company for x days/months/years/whatever, that you can quit said contract whenever you want. Not with out consequences at least. barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not. How the fuck is it barbaric? It's absolutely civilized, you agree to something, you go through with it. You change your mind, you both discuss it and if the person you agreed to it with is alright with it, they let you off. If you're of age and not mentally handicapped, you're expected to have the ability to judge whether or not you want to commit to something. We've seen a mutual agreement to be released from a contract in the case of Destiny, in this case however, Mil and Stephano basically went behind Complexity's back and threw them under the bus. At this point, they have to take a stand to make sure that this shit isn't the norm. If you want this game and this community to forever be a bunch of kids playing some games for a bit of money, then it's fine, they should let it slide and let kids do whatever they want. But that's massively detrimental for eSports as a legitimate industry and sport. judgement can be wrong. there are absolutely situations where it's crucial that workers have the right to leave an onerous job; consider someone who starts doing mining, or other hard physical labour, then finds that they're unable to hack it. or consider someone who starts getting sexually harassed in their workplace but is unable to prove it. also, the labour market wouldn't work if people weren't allowed to quit jobs, since there would be no pool of labour!
See this is the part where any argument you may have once had loses all credibility. Next you'll be comparing the coL work environment to Nazi concentration camps.
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What the fuck is Stephano thinking? So unprofessional /facepalm
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Really sad, I feel like Stephano passed up a great opportunity here but at the end of the day it's his decision. Signing the contract before he was absolutely sure is another thing, this definitely won't look good on his E-sports resume from now on and I really have to wonder what exactly happened if he was already excited and talking on Skype with complexity, what exactly changed his mind?
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On September 20 2011 07:54 Mithriel wrote:
I don't know everything of course, however I was a big fan of stephano, but if what col says is true I won't longer be, nor hope he gets into any leagues.
And this is not about just him, but esports requires a solid foundation of what's wrong and right and people should conduct business with mutual respect and in proper fashion. Anyone who can't do that is hurting esports.
Drama queen community and "esports professionalism" zealots are hurting esports
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On September 20 2011 07:57 WightyCity wrote:
i wonder what kind of money he was gonna get
Most likely something along the lines of a 6 figures contract if coL really wanted to put him as one of the highest paid in history.
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On September 20 2011 07:54 Vandalman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:50 Capook wrote:
It seems pretty obvious that Millenium (and Stephano) are in the wrong here. All this loyalty before law garbage. Reminds me of korea (in a bad way). Agreed! Not sure about the legal side, but just a bad move on mil. and Stephanos part. Lost many fans because of this situation.
Why should you hate on Stephano all of a sudden? He might not be sure of what he wants to do, he might make mystakes. People make mystakes sometimes, if you're really a fan you have to wait for it to resolve and know everything before forging an opinion anyway.If you're not a fan after that it's more ok. It's still sad that you are no longer his fan because of things not sc2 game related, but it's at least informed opinion.
If you're not a fan right now before knowing everything, then you where probably not a fan before anyway.
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On September 20 2011 07:54 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:50 Capook wrote:
It seems pretty obvious that Millenium (and Stephano) are in the wrong here. All this loyalty before law garbage. Reminds me of korea (in a bad way). Tell us your arguments? I'm curious.
Did you not read any of the posts preceding this? Or any of the posts on this thread at all? There has been plenty of valid information, and plenty of drivel, Stop being so ignorant, Stephano is undeniably in the wrong for he has signed a contract and disheveled it, He's made a joke of a legally binding contract, to say he's not in the wrong is just ignorant. I do not have a like for americans nor do I like the french, to be honest I hate most countries, even my own, but too look at this as though he did nothing wrong is just denying the facts that are right before you.
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On September 20 2011 07:58 BuddhaMonk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:51 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:42 Mordiford wrote:On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? I live in the 21st century where contracts (should) mean something. So no, I don't think if you sign a contract saying you'll be with a company for x days/months/years/whatever, that you can quit said contract whenever you want. Not with out consequences at least. barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not. How the fuck is it barbaric? It's absolutely civilized, you agree to something, you go through with it. You change your mind, you both discuss it and if the person you agreed to it with is alright with it, they let you off. If you're of age and not mentally handicapped, you're expected to have the ability to judge whether or not you want to commit to something. We've seen a mutual agreement to be released from a contract in the case of Destiny, in this case however, Mil and Stephano basically went behind Complexity's back and threw them under the bus. At this point, they have to take a stand to make sure that this shit isn't the norm. If you want this game and this community to forever be a bunch of kids playing some games for a bit of money, then it's fine, they should let it slide and let kids do whatever they want. But that's massively detrimental for eSports as a legitimate industry and sport. judgement can be wrong. there are absolutely situations where it's crucial that workers have the right to leave an onerous job; consider someone who starts doing mining, or other hard physical labour, then finds that they're unable to hack it. or consider someone who starts getting sexually harassed in their workplace but is unable to prove it. also, the labour market wouldn't work if people weren't allowed to quit jobs, since there would be no pool of labour! See this is the part where any argument you may have once had loses all credibility. Next you'll be comparing the coL work environment to Nazi concentration camps.
There we have it. Page 105, Godwins law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Godwin observed that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis.
Nice, although later than i expected.
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On September 20 2011 07:51 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:42 Mordiford wrote:On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? I live in the 21st century where contracts (should) mean something. So no, I don't think if you sign a contract saying you'll be with a company for x days/months/years/whatever, that you can quit said contract whenever you want. Not with out consequences at least. barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not. How the fuck is it barbaric? It's absolutely civilized, you agree to something, you go through with it. You change your mind, you both discuss it and if the person you agreed to it with is alright with it, they let you off. If you're of age and not mentally handicapped, you're expected to have the ability to judge whether or not you want to commit to something. We've seen a mutual agreement to be released from a contract in the case of Destiny, in this case however, Mil and Stephano basically went behind Complexity's back and threw them under the bus. At this point, they have to take a stand to make sure that this shit isn't the norm. If you want this game and this community to forever be a bunch of kids playing some games for a bit of money, then it's fine, they should let it slide and let kids do whatever they want. But that's massively detrimental for eSports as a legitimate industry and sport. judgement can be wrong. there are absolutely situations where it's crucial that workers have the right to leave an onerous job; consider someone who starts doing mining, or other hard physical labour, then finds that they're unable to hack it. or consider someone who starts getting sexually harassed in their workplace but is unable to prove it. also, the labour market wouldn't work if people weren't allowed to quit jobs, since there would be no pool of labour!
Quitting jobs involves giving your employer fair warning. You don't just say KTHXBAI one day and leave your signature settling to the ground along with the dust of your departure.
EDIT: Looks like we encountered Godwin's Law while I was typing this. Goodbye, thread. I doubt I will be visiting again.
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On September 20 2011 07:59 TLUtv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:54 Agathon wrote:On September 20 2011 07:50 Capook wrote:
It seems pretty obvious that Millenium (and Stephano) are in the wrong here. All this loyalty before law garbage. Reminds me of korea (in a bad way). Tell us your arguments? I'm curious. Did you not read any of the posts preceding this? Or any of the posts on this thread at all? There has been plenty of valid information, and plenty of drivel, Stop being so ignorant, Stephano is undeniably in the wrong for he has signed a contract and disheveled it, He's made a joke of a legally binding contract, to say he's not in the wrong is just ignorant. I do not have a like for americans nor do I like the french, to be honest I hate most countries, even my own, but too look at this as though he did nothing wrong is just denying the facts that are right before you.
Hey! Don't hate Americans for being Americans. That's totally the wrong way of approaching these different countries. So is saying you hate most countries including your own, eh?
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On September 20 2011 07:59 Loxley wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:58 BuddhaMonk wrote:On September 20 2011 07:51 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:42 Mordiford wrote:On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? I live in the 21st century where contracts (should) mean something. So no, I don't think if you sign a contract saying you'll be with a company for x days/months/years/whatever, that you can quit said contract whenever you want. Not with out consequences at least. barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not. How the fuck is it barbaric? It's absolutely civilized, you agree to something, you go through with it. You change your mind, you both discuss it and if the person you agreed to it with is alright with it, they let you off. If you're of age and not mentally handicapped, you're expected to have the ability to judge whether or not you want to commit to something. We've seen a mutual agreement to be released from a contract in the case of Destiny, in this case however, Mil and Stephano basically went behind Complexity's back and threw them under the bus. At this point, they have to take a stand to make sure that this shit isn't the norm. If you want this game and this community to forever be a bunch of kids playing some games for a bit of money, then it's fine, they should let it slide and let kids do whatever they want. But that's massively detrimental for eSports as a legitimate industry and sport. judgement can be wrong. there are absolutely situations where it's crucial that workers have the right to leave an onerous job; consider someone who starts doing mining, or other hard physical labour, then finds that they're unable to hack it. or consider someone who starts getting sexually harassed in their workplace but is unable to prove it. also, the labour market wouldn't work if people weren't allowed to quit jobs, since there would be no pool of labour! See this is the part where any argument you may have once had loses all credibility. Next you'll be comparing the coL work environment to Nazi concentration camps. There we have it. Page 105, Godwins law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_lawShow nested quote +Godwin observed that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis. Nice, although later than i expected.
LOL
User was warned for this post
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On September 20 2011 07:57 WightyCity wrote:
i wonder what kind of money he was gonna get
Concerning the CDI mill offered has a minimum salary of 1.365 euros (1.073 euros neat of taxes), we can pretty much assume that it won't be much higher as in addition to that Mill will have to pay social charges of aprox 400euros (35% of the salary ), and Lwl said in his stream that he was more or less getting paid at the SMIC (minimum wage).
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EPT
