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Do you macro like a pro? - Page 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
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LetoAtreides82
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1188 Posts
September 17 2011 05:57 GMT
#601
From my last ten games my sq is 62, which would put me at almost diamond level. I was previously diamond but took a long break and forced myself to derank to gold with one of my alternate accounts to get back in form. Right now I'm at the top of my gold division, lately i've been paired against top 20 platinums and top 50 diamonds, so I think i'm close to getting promoted soon.
The spice must flow
VaultDweller
Profile Joined January 2011
Romania132 Posts
September 17 2011 06:08 GMT
#602
I loved this analysis and especially the fact that you've created a tool that can give you and idea of where your macro is. I'll be using it intensely.

Although now it shows me an average of 69.77 over 20 games and I'm... ehm... gold. That has me a bit confused, must mean that my micro and decision making suck massively I guess, lol.
"War is not about who's right- it's about who's left."
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
September 17 2011 06:08 GMT
#603
Really interesting, though I still think it might be unfair towards zerg, especially zerg that favor lategame where they stockpile resources/larvae. My zerg has an SQ of 58.996 while my severely underdeveloped and weak terran has 72.440 (and one of my games actually getting a 98.093 SQ after 12 minutes :o). Or maybe I am just playing zerg wrong... I am definitely pretty passive unless its ZvT.
polysciguy
Profile Joined August 2010
United States488 Posts
September 17 2011 06:08 GMT
#604
i vary so much it isn't funny, a couple games i have 67 some 33...average was 53ish though so i guess gold (where i am) is where i should be.
glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever---napoleon
LtLolburger
Profile Joined August 2010
New Zealand365 Posts
September 17 2011 06:09 GMT
#605
Very interesting read. And a good way to see how on/off the pace you are for improving!
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane. -Philip K. Dick
M1ST
Profile Joined August 2011
5 Posts
September 17 2011 06:12 GMT
#606
Wow amazing work man, quite a good read.
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
September 17 2011 06:12 GMT
#607
I think you'll find that most of the people who are quoting big numbers, but lower leagues, are mostly Zerg players. Simply put, constant worker production with T or P is almost always a very good thing, and it seems like that's what this formula is based on.

However, with zerg it is perfectly possible to OVERdrone. A zerg player can easily spit out a ton of drones early game, waste money on extraneous stuff, like extra OLs, fast expos or extra tech, and keep their money low...but that doesn't mean their macro's good. It's just means they're facerolling the keyboard.

T & P don't necessarily work the same way.

I don't know what you'd need to add to the equation to make it stand up better to the 'overdroning zerg' test, but Income, Spending, Game Length & Drone Count aren't enough.

Otherwise, I wouldn't get results that put me at top of GM league in Drone production and middle-Master with SQ while I'm only Plat league.

Sure, there might be other flaws with my play, like bad scouting/decisions and/or unit control, etc. But I doubt that's enough to drop me like 2-3 whole leagues, and still have what basically amounts to god-like macro. Because I don't.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
Knuppe
Profile Joined April 2011
90 Posts
September 17 2011 06:15 GMT
#608
Blizzard should add the IdrA-league :D
riderLyrae
Profile Joined May 2011
United States45 Posts
September 17 2011 06:24 GMT
#609
Mine is 65, but I'm in Plat. But I know that I make awful tactical decisions and that I need to work on that.
@F3_Rider ;; Elements ;; Winterfox ;; SKT T1
kedinik
Profile Joined September 2010
United States352 Posts
September 17 2011 06:30 GMT
#610
SQ seems borderline meaningless because it's subject to so much variation.

There is obviously a problem with it when a decent chunk of bronze players score higher than any amount of GM players.
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
September 17 2011 06:34 GMT
#611
On September 17 2011 15:30 kedinik wrote:There is obviously a problem with it when a decent chunk of bronze players score higher than any amount of GM players.

I don't think any bronzes have posted to that effect yet.
Most of the outliers that have posted are plat or diamond, and all the ones that have mentioned race are Zerg.

I really think it's just an issue with Zerg being able to overdrone.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
The.Doctor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada333 Posts
September 17 2011 06:39 GMT
#612
88 avg...some hardcore outliers in my avg from long TvT games. Median about 94.
The Boss.
Perseverance
Profile Joined February 2010
Japan2800 Posts
September 17 2011 06:44 GMT
#613
Awesome work, this will be very useful. Adding to favorites now ^^
<3 Moonbattles
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
September 17 2011 06:49 GMT
#614
On September 17 2011 14:53 Azzur wrote:
I believe there are definite gaps between leagues. The empirical data supports what many higher level players know intuitively.
Bronze and GrandMaster overlap (marked area):
[image loading]
Let alone the closer leagues. So we can hardly talk of gaps between leagues. There is scaling in the averages, but there is still quite a lot of variation within a league, and between different games of the same player.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
September 17 2011 07:00 GMT
#615
On September 17 2011 15:49 figq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 14:53 Azzur wrote:
I believe there are definite gaps between leagues. The empirical data supports what many higher level players know intuitively.
Bronze and GrandMaster overlap (marked area):
[image loading]
Let alone the closer leagues. So we can hardly talk of gaps between leagues. There is scaling in the averages, but there is still quite a lot of variation within a league, and between different games of the same player.


I don't see the problem. This is an average measure, and if you compare a 9 minute game of a bronzie where he hits a 3 rax timing attack (just over 600) to a GM micro-intensive game long game, it's much more likely for that bronzie to get a higher score on that one game. It's just a very small number of games. Also, some good players get accounts that they need to play out of bronze, so those 30ish games would contribute to the overlap too.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Twiggs
Profile Joined January 2011
United States600 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 07:04:37
September 17 2011 07:03 GMT
#616
This. is. amazing. No matter what you say, the key to this game is economy and worker production. Exactly as your data shows, the best of the best still do a better job at making workers than everyone else. Very cool insight you have given us!! )) AAAAAAAA++++++

If we assume that each races economy are exactly the same (they are not), we can see that us Protoss players are slipping on each of these graphs! I blame our lack of chronoboost usage into late game
My life for Auir | FLASH . JD . BISU . HERO . Nony . Incontrol . FIGHTING
StarFox1
Profile Joined June 2011
United States38 Posts
September 17 2011 07:15 GMT
#617
...Am I the only one here who looks at this math and thinks it's a foreign language? :l
"apologize for playing that race" - EGIdra
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 07:22:13
September 17 2011 07:17 GMT
#618
On September 17 2011 16:00 Ghanburighan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 15:49 figq wrote:
On September 17 2011 14:53 Azzur wrote:
I believe there are definite gaps between leagues. The empirical data supports what many higher level players know intuitively.
Bronze and GrandMaster overlap (marked area):
[image loading]
Let alone the closer leagues. So we can hardly talk of gaps between leagues. There is scaling in the averages, but there is still quite a lot of variation within a league, and between different games of the same player.


I don't see the problem. This is an average measure, and if you compare a 9 minute game of a bronzie where he hits a 3 rax timing attack (just over 600) to a GM micro-intensive game long game, it's much more likely for that bronzie to get a higher score on that one game. It's just a very small number of games. Also, some good players get accounts that they need to play out of bronze, so those 30ish games would contribute to the overlap too.
There's no problem, just some comments seem to deduce more from the data than the OP states.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
September 17 2011 07:37 GMT
#619
On September 17 2011 15:49 figq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 14:53 Azzur wrote:
I believe there are definite gaps between leagues. The empirical data supports what many higher level players know intuitively.
Bronze and GrandMaster overlap (marked area):
[image loading]
Let alone the closer leagues. So we can hardly talk of gaps between leagues. There is scaling in the averages, but there is still quite a lot of variation within a league, and between different games of the same player.


there are obviously gaps between the leagues, you just don't know how to read the graph. the overlapping parts are at very low game counts, so essentially the fewer games there are, the more likely the leagues are to overlap. as you increase the sample size, the gaps become more distinguished.
kaetor
Profile Joined March 2011
New Zealand292 Posts
September 17 2011 07:44 GMT
#620
Took my 20 most recent games, SQ of 79.
High platinum protoss, spending money isn't my problem
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