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well this is nice since now they can't rape my tanks as easily. It seems temporary though, there's still this icky feeling with zerg T.T
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On September 16 2011 06:53 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 06:52 Heavenly wrote:On September 16 2011 06:51 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:46 Ammanas wrote:On September 16 2011 06:33 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:19 Ammanas wrote:
I am just friggin gold player (more enjoying watching SC2 then playing) but I have to ask one thing: Why the hell do all of you think, you are better in keeping balance then Blizzard is?
I mean, SC1 is perfectly balanced game (yeah, it took a long time), WoW is the best balanced MMORPG by far (well, in PvP Warrhammer is better, but in PvE it has the best balance between classes and WoW never was really a PvP game). Also they have A TON of statistical data (more then anyone, of course) and they have data that no one else has.
The thing is, they are not basing their ballance at some subjective feelings or whatever, they are basing it on statistics. And statistics almost never lie. And I don't mean just basic winning percentage, if it works anything like in WoW, they literally have statistics of everything everyone has done in every game. And they have employees, whose full time job is to analyze those statistics/data.
So let me ask one more time. Why do YOU think, you know better then Blizzard? And stats do lie, if they want a good set of statistics they should exclude all games except grandmaster league/tournament results. No one but Blizzard cares if protoss has a 90% win rate in gold league and maybe some fucking scrubs in gold league. I am pretty sure, they stated on numerous occasions, that this is exactly what they are doing. Balancing the game around the best players. Even I am smart enough to not take any statistics from, say, bronze league seriously. Which is why the stats lie, because they take in account of gold league scrubs. No they don't. Unfortunately they do, I wish they didn't. ):
They take note of them, as they should. They're not in it to please esports viewers after all, they want to sell games.
That said, they've always said they're pretty happy with the balance at lower levels and AFAIK have never indicated any balance changes were intended for that level. Generally balance changes are insignificant to lower levels because they get lost in the horrible macro etc.
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United States7166 Posts
omg we're witnessing a sick meta-patching strategy by Blizzard:
How to lower NP's range to 7 without upsetting the community? Propose an outrageous nerf for a while, then replace it with a less severe one. BRILLIANT
I used to do that with my parents when I was a little kid when I wanted them to say, take me to the movies. I'd just ask to go to something like miniature golf or bowling first, then after they turn it down they feel more welcome to the idea of going to a movie
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I feel like the old neural range was perfect. I feel like this reduced range will make neural parasite almost impossible to use effectively. will have to wait and see, But my intuition tells me this is a bad change.
How the fuck are you supposed to neural parasite colossi in the middle of a death ball with a range of 7? It will put your infestors where your roaches usually fight from unless the protoss has the colossi at the front of the ball (which doesn't even happen if he just A-moves, since colossi range is so high).
This reflexive backlash against the infestor is aggravating. It is zerg's only power unit that needs to be adequately prepared for by the opponent. If it feels stronger than the other zerg options, that's because the other zerg options are very weak. I think if you are going to nerf the infestor, you need to give zerg an improvement in another area. We need something that the opponent has to respond to or else we will never be able to dictate the pace of the game. Infestors were that unit, but if they are nerfed and no longer capable of holding off protoss and terran unit comps, we won't be able to make them at all. It will go from heavy use to zero use.
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On September 16 2011 06:54 Pred8oar wrote:
Could someone explain why np is so op that it needs to be nerfed? 9 range was fine, just think of blinkstalkers, hts, ghosts, even phoenix or just a bunch of high range units like colossi or tanks. People just started to learn how to dea lwith the infestors and np, why does it need a nerf?
Maybe because i a mZerg i dont get it but well..... ;P
Blizzard has consistently released "explanations" of their patch notes, so we will see what they have to see soon. (assuming this version of the patch goes live)
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On September 16 2011 06:23 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:57 windsupernova wrote:On September 16 2011 05:49 MandoRelease wrote:
So while zerg gets a double nerf on the infestor, terran's ghost gets nothing. Blizzard is acting a big strange. Ghost is as much an issue as the infestor.
I'm not really disagreeing with the nerf (nor am i agreeing), we'll see how things will go after the patch, but it'd be great if blizzard stoped looking away when it comes to Terran. Major changes are almost always for the other races, while Terran gets minor change everytime. Be more drastic with Terran, even if it means reverting back to the previous state, like with the other races. 5s is nothing. Yeah man, nerfing Siege Tanks, Medevac speed, Stim timming, Supply before barracks, Nitro pack at Factory level, Reapers at 50s build time, BC AtG nerf were all minor changes. Stop pretending as if Blizzard favours one race over the other. Lol this post is so stupid. Present nerfs should be based on the present state of the game, not on how many nerfs were made prior to this nerf. It's completely irrelevant.
Or maybe you could read the post I was responding to?
Major changes are almost always for the other races, while Terran gets minor change everytime.
Seriously at least read the whole thing before calling someone stupid.
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On September 16 2011 06:54 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 06:52 Heavenly wrote:On September 16 2011 06:51 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:46 Ammanas wrote:On September 16 2011 06:33 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:19 Ammanas wrote:
I am just friggin gold player (more enjoying watching SC2 then playing) but I have to ask one thing: Why the hell do all of you think, you are better in keeping balance then Blizzard is?
I mean, SC1 is perfectly balanced game (yeah, it took a long time), WoW is the best balanced MMORPG by far (well, in PvP Warrhammer is better, but in PvE it has the best balance between classes and WoW never was really a PvP game). Also they have A TON of statistical data (more then anyone, of course) and they have data that no one else has.
The thing is, they are not basing their ballance at some subjective feelings or whatever, they are basing it on statistics. And statistics almost never lie. And I don't mean just basic winning percentage, if it works anything like in WoW, they literally have statistics of everything everyone has done in every game. And they have employees, whose full time job is to analyze those statistics/data.
So let me ask one more time. Why do YOU think, you know better then Blizzard? And stats do lie, if they want a good set of statistics they should exclude all games except grandmaster league/tournament results. No one but Blizzard cares if protoss has a 90% win rate in gold league and maybe some fucking scrubs in gold league. I am pretty sure, they stated on numerous occasions, that this is exactly what they are doing. Balancing the game around the best players. Even I am smart enough to not take any statistics from, say, bronze league seriously. Which is why the stats lie, because they take in account of gold league scrubs. No they don't. "We increased Zealot build time because we found Proxy 2-Gate to be too powerful at the silver-level of play." Unfortunately... they do. T_T
Source?.......
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On September 16 2011 06:55 Zelniq wrote:
omg we're witnessing a sick meta-patching strategy by Blizzard:
How to lower NP's range to 7 without upsetting the community? Propose an outrageous nerf for a while, then replace it with a less severe one. BRILLIANT
I used to do that with my parents when I was a little kid when I wanted them to say, take me to the movies. I'd just ask to go to something like miniature golf or bowling first, then after they turn it down they feel more welcome to the idea of going to a movie
Relativity is a funny thing.
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On September 16 2011 06:54 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 06:52 Heavenly wrote:On September 16 2011 06:51 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:46 Ammanas wrote:On September 16 2011 06:33 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:19 Ammanas wrote:
I am just friggin gold player (more enjoying watching SC2 then playing) but I have to ask one thing: Why the hell do all of you think, you are better in keeping balance then Blizzard is?
I mean, SC1 is perfectly balanced game (yeah, it took a long time), WoW is the best balanced MMORPG by far (well, in PvP Warrhammer is better, but in PvE it has the best balance between classes and WoW never was really a PvP game). Also they have A TON of statistical data (more then anyone, of course) and they have data that no one else has.
The thing is, they are not basing their ballance at some subjective feelings or whatever, they are basing it on statistics. And statistics almost never lie. And I don't mean just basic winning percentage, if it works anything like in WoW, they literally have statistics of everything everyone has done in every game. And they have employees, whose full time job is to analyze those statistics/data.
So let me ask one more time. Why do YOU think, you know better then Blizzard? And stats do lie, if they want a good set of statistics they should exclude all games except grandmaster league/tournament results. No one but Blizzard cares if protoss has a 90% win rate in gold league and maybe some fucking scrubs in gold league. I am pretty sure, they stated on numerous occasions, that this is exactly what they are doing. Balancing the game around the best players. Even I am smart enough to not take any statistics from, say, bronze league seriously. Which is why the stats lie, because they take in account of gold league scrubs. No they don't. "We increased Zealot build time because we found Proxy 2-Gate to be too powerful at the silver-level of play." Unfortunately... they do. T_T
Wasn't that like...a year ago? They may have back then but every statistic I have seen Blizzard provide for a long time has been either from tournament results or grandmaster league. They also recently tested reverting the zealot nerf + buffing stalker build time while they changed warpgates but they decided not to, so apparently the zealot nerf is working as intended.
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On September 16 2011 05:26 aquanda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 03:49 R0YAL wrote:
Better course of action. But wheres the "FG now slows units instead of eliminating all micro entirely" change? It's coming in the patch where they change force fields to do the same.
There's no way that will happen unless the race gets completely overhauled in LoV or something. Protoss is helplessly dependent on FF. Although at least placing FF takes some skill, casting FG takes zero skill, at least one person is doing micro with FF. But I agree that any ability that inhibits micro is terrible for an esport. But if they could somehow tweak FF in a way to promote more micro then that would be great.
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On September 16 2011 06:41 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 06:39 titaniumnuts wrote:
This change should also include a decrease of the Infestor's targeting rank. If you are going to force the infestor to be that close, then the opponent should have to target the infestor. They do, unless your infestor is your closest unit. I wonder where this "casters have higher priority" myth came from.
Thank you for enlightening me. I always believe it was true as well, but your post challenged me to test it for myself in a unit tester. And yes, you're right! A siege tank will not target Infestors over zerglings. Neither are banelings a higher priority target than a zergling for example.
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Dunno if they said that as the reason, but 2gate was too strong against Zerg at the highest levels too, so meh.
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On September 16 2011 06:54 Pred8oar wrote:
Could someone explain why np is so op that it needs to be nerfed? 9 range was fine, just think of blinkstalkers, hts, ghosts, even phoenix or just a bunch of high range units like colossi or tanks. People just started to learn how to dea lwith the infestors and np, why does it need a nerf?
Maybe because i a mZerg i dont get it but well..... ;P
Bug fix: Solved an issue where people played zerg.
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On September 16 2011 06:56 Lomak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 06:54 QTIP. wrote:On September 16 2011 06:52 Heavenly wrote:On September 16 2011 06:51 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:46 Ammanas wrote:On September 16 2011 06:33 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:19 Ammanas wrote:
I am just friggin gold player (more enjoying watching SC2 then playing) but I have to ask one thing: Why the hell do all of you think, you are better in keeping balance then Blizzard is?
I mean, SC1 is perfectly balanced game (yeah, it took a long time), WoW is the best balanced MMORPG by far (well, in PvP Warrhammer is better, but in PvE it has the best balance between classes and WoW never was really a PvP game). Also they have A TON of statistical data (more then anyone, of course) and they have data that no one else has.
The thing is, they are not basing their ballance at some subjective feelings or whatever, they are basing it on statistics. And statistics almost never lie. And I don't mean just basic winning percentage, if it works anything like in WoW, they literally have statistics of everything everyone has done in every game. And they have employees, whose full time job is to analyze those statistics/data.
So let me ask one more time. Why do YOU think, you know better then Blizzard? And stats do lie, if they want a good set of statistics they should exclude all games except grandmaster league/tournament results. No one but Blizzard cares if protoss has a 90% win rate in gold league and maybe some fucking scrubs in gold league. I am pretty sure, they stated on numerous occasions, that this is exactly what they are doing. Balancing the game around the best players. Even I am smart enough to not take any statistics from, say, bronze league seriously. Which is why the stats lie, because they take in account of gold league scrubs. No they don't. "We increased Zealot build time because we found Proxy 2-Gate to be too powerful at the silver-level of play." Unfortunately... they do. T_T Source?.......
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221
"Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels"
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On September 16 2011 06:24 Whitewing wrote:
You know what guys? Can we stop the Protoss hate on Zerg and the Zerg hate on Protoss? We're both the underdogs here, let's direct our hate at the overpowered Terrans, alright?
YOU HUMAN JERKS.
It's all Idra's fault.
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Why not just make it a melee unit? like all other zerg units.
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That pretty fair. I think it really helps against high ground np's more than anything. As a protoss player the 9 range made going zealot archon pretty silly. I can't talk from a zvz or zvt balance, but this sounds like it will be pretty good.
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On September 16 2011 06:56 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 06:54 QTIP. wrote:On September 16 2011 06:52 Heavenly wrote:On September 16 2011 06:51 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:46 Ammanas wrote:On September 16 2011 06:33 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:19 Ammanas wrote:
I am just friggin gold player (more enjoying watching SC2 then playing) but I have to ask one thing: Why the hell do all of you think, you are better in keeping balance then Blizzard is?
I mean, SC1 is perfectly balanced game (yeah, it took a long time), WoW is the best balanced MMORPG by far (well, in PvP Warrhammer is better, but in PvE it has the best balance between classes and WoW never was really a PvP game). Also they have A TON of statistical data (more then anyone, of course) and they have data that no one else has.
The thing is, they are not basing their ballance at some subjective feelings or whatever, they are basing it on statistics. And statistics almost never lie. And I don't mean just basic winning percentage, if it works anything like in WoW, they literally have statistics of everything everyone has done in every game. And they have employees, whose full time job is to analyze those statistics/data.
So let me ask one more time. Why do YOU think, you know better then Blizzard? And stats do lie, if they want a good set of statistics they should exclude all games except grandmaster league/tournament results. No one but Blizzard cares if protoss has a 90% win rate in gold league and maybe some fucking scrubs in gold league. I am pretty sure, they stated on numerous occasions, that this is exactly what they are doing. Balancing the game around the best players. Even I am smart enough to not take any statistics from, say, bronze league seriously. Which is why the stats lie, because they take in account of gold league scrubs. No they don't. "We increased Zealot build time because we found Proxy 2-Gate to be too powerful at the silver-level of play." Unfortunately... they do. T_T Wasn't that like...a year ago? They may have back then but every statistic I have seen Blizzard provide for a long time has been either from tournament results or grandmaster league. They also recently tested reverting the zealot nerf + buffing stalker build time while they changed warpgates but they decided not to, so apparently the zealot nerf is working as intended.
I agree, it was a while ago, and perhaps it has worked out completely fine. However, they do balance for various skill levels (read as: low skill) as well as game types. For example, they explained that the Reaper nerf was centered around 2v2 play.
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On September 16 2011 06:58 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 06:56 Lomak wrote:On September 16 2011 06:54 QTIP. wrote:On September 16 2011 06:52 Heavenly wrote:On September 16 2011 06:51 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:46 Ammanas wrote:On September 16 2011 06:33 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:19 Ammanas wrote:
I am just friggin gold player (more enjoying watching SC2 then playing) but I have to ask one thing: Why the hell do all of you think, you are better in keeping balance then Blizzard is?
I mean, SC1 is perfectly balanced game (yeah, it took a long time), WoW is the best balanced MMORPG by far (well, in PvP Warrhammer is better, but in PvE it has the best balance between classes and WoW never was really a PvP game). Also they have A TON of statistical data (more then anyone, of course) and they have data that no one else has.
The thing is, they are not basing their ballance at some subjective feelings or whatever, they are basing it on statistics. And statistics almost never lie. And I don't mean just basic winning percentage, if it works anything like in WoW, they literally have statistics of everything everyone has done in every game. And they have employees, whose full time job is to analyze those statistics/data.
So let me ask one more time. Why do YOU think, you know better then Blizzard? And stats do lie, if they want a good set of statistics they should exclude all games except grandmaster league/tournament results. No one but Blizzard cares if protoss has a 90% win rate in gold league and maybe some fucking scrubs in gold league. I am pretty sure, they stated on numerous occasions, that this is exactly what they are doing. Balancing the game around the best players. Even I am smart enough to not take any statistics from, say, bronze league seriously. Which is why the stats lie, because they take in account of gold league scrubs. No they don't. "We increased Zealot build time because we found Proxy 2-Gate to be too powerful at the silver-level of play." Unfortunately... they do. T_T Source?....... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221"Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels"
There is a key word in that sentence and its not 'silver'.
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On September 16 2011 06:58 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 06:56 Lomak wrote:On September 16 2011 06:54 QTIP. wrote:On September 16 2011 06:52 Heavenly wrote:On September 16 2011 06:51 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:46 Ammanas wrote:On September 16 2011 06:33 Pwnographics wrote:On September 16 2011 06:19 Ammanas wrote:
I am just friggin gold player (more enjoying watching SC2 then playing) but I have to ask one thing: Why the hell do all of you think, you are better in keeping balance then Blizzard is?
I mean, SC1 is perfectly balanced game (yeah, it took a long time), WoW is the best balanced MMORPG by far (well, in PvP Warrhammer is better, but in PvE it has the best balance between classes and WoW never was really a PvP game). Also they have A TON of statistical data (more then anyone, of course) and they have data that no one else has.
The thing is, they are not basing their ballance at some subjective feelings or whatever, they are basing it on statistics. And statistics almost never lie. And I don't mean just basic winning percentage, if it works anything like in WoW, they literally have statistics of everything everyone has done in every game. And they have employees, whose full time job is to analyze those statistics/data.
So let me ask one more time. Why do YOU think, you know better then Blizzard? And stats do lie, if they want a good set of statistics they should exclude all games except grandmaster league/tournament results. No one but Blizzard cares if protoss has a 90% win rate in gold league and maybe some fucking scrubs in gold league. I am pretty sure, they stated on numerous occasions, that this is exactly what they are doing. Balancing the game around the best players. Even I am smart enough to not take any statistics from, say, bronze league seriously. Which is why the stats lie, because they take in account of gold league scrubs. No they don't. "We increased Zealot build time because we found Proxy 2-Gate to be too powerful at the silver-level of play." Unfortunately... they do. T_T Source?....... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221"Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels"
Also, David Kim mentioned this at Blizzcon 2010 during the Balance Panel Discussion.
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EPT
