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On September 16 2011 05:22 DuneBug wrote:
Bad change.
I'd ask all the protoss players... would you rather be able to make templar or infestors? I'd like to see their answers. If feedback was not smartcast I'd have more sympathy for the protoss.
I doubt this will have too great of an effect on balance (IE zergs wont start uber-losing) , I just don't like when stuff gets nerfed.
I'd rather have infestors
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I dont really understand why they need to change NP, fungal was the main issue i think, i have never ever had a problem with NP and i dont really remember seeing any games where its so imbalanced(i presume thats what they think) so really dont understand the need to change it at all
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On September 16 2011 05:27 Eishi_Ki wrote:
If Blizzard dont want NP on Mothership, why dont they just fucking say "Doesn't work on Mothership" instead of all this 'Massive' bs
Because ad hoc rules make for an inelegant game balance. There's nothing in the game that says Ghosts can't Snipe Zerg buildings as far as I'm aware, but they just... can't. There's no (dare I say) logical reason why Orbitals and Nexii can be hit with an EMP but at the same time are immune to Feedback. Adding more to the pile just makes things worse.
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Russian Federation266 Posts
On September 16 2011 05:28 Giantt wrote:
When you think about it - it is quite the same nerf wrapped around differently.
Ignoring the air massive units and NP.
Speaking about thors and collossi - the ground massive and highest priority targets for NP.
-Thors have 7 range;
-Collossi have 9;
-NP has delay.
Combination of these means that you cant NP any of these units - you would lose your infestors before the hook reaches the target.
It is worth mentioning that NP on tanks, immortals and everything else just got 2 times more difficult.
Roach & NP combination vs stalker-immortal just gets invalid strat.
Colossi already have the same range as NP, doesn't mean they do well against mass infestor. They will after patch probably, but don't think it will change a lot against Thors.
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On September 16 2011 05:18 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:17 N1k0 wrote:On September 16 2011 05:11 clusen wrote:On September 16 2011 05:07 MageWarden wrote:On September 16 2011 05:05 Cloud9157 wrote:On September 16 2011 05:02 MageWarden wrote:
I didnt think NP needed a change... but i like i can still have a chance vs mech. Also u can NP with flanking armies. You clearly have not seen PvZ lately then... clearly u havnt noticed when u get enough collosi they lol at NP If they get too many Colossi they lose to any random air composition :p Maybe too many players were relying on Infestor as the core of their army vs Toss and Blizz wants to break that? I only use Infestor vs Toss as support for Broodlords, so I'm totally fine with that. Infestor do not have to be THE answer to Colossi. What other answer is there? broodlords come too late and if you say corruptors i will smack you. Hell, get Mutas if they have a shit ton of Colossi and limited AA. Mutas alone will own it.
You can't respond to late game mass colossus and just then go mass muta. Zerg was already maxed long before the protoss. So you need to start your mass muta early. But muta suck SO bad against stalkers and storm, so it really isnt a solid strat. And if the toss is any good and sees a shit ton of muta, then they won't go so colo heavy and will probably get ht's
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On September 16 2011 05:29 DreamChaser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:26 aquanda wrote:On September 16 2011 03:49 R0YAL wrote:
Better course of action. But wheres the "FG now slows units instead of eliminating all micro entirely" change? It's coming in the patch where they change force fields to do the same. FF can be negated FG is you can't. So i dont see the similarity where fungal take 1 F to entrap several units, FF takes about 3 PERFECT FF or for the average player 5-7 FF
Yeah, the only unit that requires actual micro in the entire Protoss army..
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On September 16 2011 05:26 Outofstims wrote:
Like Destiny already suggested in his stream this change is an absolute bullshit.
Ghost and Templars have a range of 10/9 and 8 respectively on their abilities and the Infestor now has 7... WTF Blizzard?! I mean, NP was perfectly fine, they should have increased the energy cost of Infested Terrans instead.
If they don't want us to use NP anymore, why don't they just remove it from the game. I'm sorry Blizzard but I don't want to suicide my Infestors to a group of Colo, Ghosts or Templars, all of the stated out range them...
Um, then don't use neural parasite in those situations and suicide into them?
Guess what other spells are almost never used but are in the game?
Observer speed.
Warp prism speed.
Corvid reactor.
Terran building armor.
Neosteel framing.
Medivac energy.
etc. etc. etc.
Obviously they wanted to make neural parasite into a more situational spell than it is, for instance if someone is deciding to go zealot/archon and has no colossi tech switch yet, against thor/hellion pushes, etc. They have removed upgrades from the game like flux vanes and khydarian amulet instead of just nerfing them in the past, deal with it.
On September 16 2011 05:31 Outofstims wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:29 DreamChaser wrote:On September 16 2011 05:26 aquanda wrote:On September 16 2011 03:49 R0YAL wrote:
Better course of action. But wheres the "FG now slows units instead of eliminating all micro entirely" change? It's coming in the patch where they change force fields to do the same. FF can be negated FG is you can't. So i dont see the similarity where fungal take 1 F to entrap several units, FF takes about 3 PERFECT FF or for the average player 5-7 FF Yeah, the only unit that requires actual micro in the entire Protoss army..
Always great to see snide comments from presumably low level players. Actually try watching a high level protoss play on stream such as Huk and see how often they a-move zerg.
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On September 16 2011 05:29 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:27 Numy wrote:On September 16 2011 05:23 Alpina wrote:On September 16 2011 05:22 Numy wrote:On September 16 2011 05:17 Alpina wrote:
Now I never ever research NP again cause it's completelly useless. And as I can see 90% of people defending this change are T or P players so that's just funny lol. No zerg can defend this change cause that complete nonsense. So basically any nerf to NP will make it completely useless and no one can defend it? Would you rather have no massive or less range. Either way it's getting nerfed. Both nerfs makes NP useless. And that's not just a nerf those both are very huge nerfs. In best case scenario you can use them now vs. mass thors if terran is stupid enough to have 10 thors and nothing more. Maybe that's what they going for? Infestors already counter almost every unit type in the game which is kinda silly(Much like Ghost) so I assume blizzard want to tone down one side of the infestor. "Counter" on paper only. No good toss will allow to NP their army, same with terran..
What are you going on about. Good toss got NPed a lot vs players who went that, in fact Morrows famous sick ZvP was centered around ling/bling with infestors fungalling and NPing. Terran mech got dealt with by NP too, plenty of good players used NP on mech. You just don't see mech a lot.
This whole "no good player will get NPed" makes no sense. If that's the case then why is everyone upset about a nerf to a spell that has zero impact to the game according to you? In fact why are you even posting here upset if it has no impact.
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On September 16 2011 05:29 DreamChaser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:26 aquanda wrote:On September 16 2011 03:49 R0YAL wrote:
Better course of action. But wheres the "FG now slows units instead of eliminating all micro entirely" change? It's coming in the patch where they change force fields to do the same. FF can be negated FG is you can't. So i dont see the similarity where fungal take 1 F to entrap several units, FF takes about 3 PERFECT FF or for the average player 5-7 FF
any competitive protoss can easily get 3 perfect or 4-6 decent FFs unless they get caught off guard or something.
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On September 16 2011 05:22 DuneBug wrote:
Bad change.
I'd ask all the protoss players... would you rather be able to make templar or infestors? I'd like to see their answers. If feedback was not smartcast I'd have more sympathy for the protoss.
I doubt this will have too great of an effect on balance (IE zergs wont start uber-losing) , I just don't like when stuff gets nerfed.
Wait....... Feedback is smartcast!?!!?!
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On September 16 2011 05:22 DuneBug wrote:
Bad change.
I'd ask all the protoss players... would you rather be able to make templar or infestors? I'd like to see their answers. If feedback was not smartcast I'd have more sympathy for the protoss.
I doubt this will have too great of an effect on balance (IE zergs wont start uber-losing) , I just don't like when stuff gets nerfed.
what a stupid question, i'd take infestors over templars even after the patch
and its not even close
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On September 16 2011 05:24 Pajegetc wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard caved to Zerg whining again. The NP change was great with it not effecting massive.
Did I just read this???
I don't think a single pro-player even thought that NP change (no longer hitting massive) was even remotely fair.
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On September 16 2011 05:31 Outofstims wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:29 DreamChaser wrote:On September 16 2011 05:26 aquanda wrote:On September 16 2011 03:49 R0YAL wrote:
Better course of action. But wheres the "FG now slows units instead of eliminating all micro entirely" change? It's coming in the patch where they change force fields to do the same. FF can be negated FG is you can't. So i dont see the similarity where fungal take 1 F to entrap several units, FF takes about 3 PERFECT FF or for the average player 5-7 FF Yeah, the only unit that requires actual micro in the entire Protoss army..
and without FF, Protoss would die so fast.
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k now that leads to the question of what race do i want to switch to protoss or terran...
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On September 16 2011 05:29 DreamChaser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:26 aquanda wrote:On September 16 2011 03:49 R0YAL wrote:
Better course of action. But wheres the "FG now slows units instead of eliminating all micro entirely" change? It's coming in the patch where they change force fields to do the same. FF can be negated FG is you can't. So i dont see the similarity where fungal take 1 F to entrap several units, FF takes about 3 PERFECT FF or for the average player 5-7 FF
All I could think about while reading this was watching my 40+ ling/banes trapped in a 6 FF donut all die in about 4 seconds. And interesting fact, you can actually negate FG with good FF!
My original post wasn't serious, it was simply replying to an ironic statement about preventing micro with an equally silly statement.
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On September 16 2011 05:28 Evilmystic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:22 DuneBug wrote:
Bad change.
I'd ask all the protoss players... would you rather be able to make templar or infestors? I'd like to see their answers. If feedback was not smartcast I'd have more sympathy for the protoss.
I doubt this will have too great of an effect on balance (IE zergs wont start uber-losing) , I just don't like when stuff gets nerfed. I can't really imagine a situation where I'd take HT over infestor. Something with a lot of tanks probably.
I would take HT every time. Zergs need an anti caster. Btw you won't have energy upgrade since you shouldn't be able to warp in fungals ;p
Well. This change is bad. I would prefer that they nerf their speed while they're burrowed. That would nerf IT enough with good canon placement.
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On September 16 2011 05:30 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:27 Eishi_Ki wrote:
If Blizzard dont want NP on Mothership, why dont they just fucking say "Doesn't work on Mothership" instead of all this 'Massive' bs Because ad hoc rules make for an inelegant game balance. There's nothing in the game that says Ghosts can't Snipe Zerg buildings as far as I'm aware, but they just... can't. There's no (dare I say) logical reason why Orbitals and Nexii can be hit with an EMP but at the same time are immune to Feedback. Adding more to the pile just makes things worse.
Feedback and Snipe are specified as only working on units. Structures are not units.
I sort of agree with your point in general (which is one of the many reasons I thought the previous NP nerf was stupid), but your examples are wrong. And I actually think it would be reasonable to just give the Mothership a "Psionic Fortitude" ability or something that makes it immune to mind control. It's already a gimmicky unit, one extra little specific ability isn't going to hurt.
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On September 16 2011 05:25 MageWarden wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:12 Cloud9157 wrote:On September 16 2011 05:07 MageWarden wrote:On September 16 2011 05:05 Cloud9157 wrote:On September 16 2011 05:02 MageWarden wrote:
I didnt think NP needed a change... but i like i can still have a chance vs mech. Also u can NP with flanking armies. You clearly have not seen PvZ lately then... clearly u havnt noticed when u get enough collosi they lol at NP No they don't. Zergs going ling/Infestor spend gas on upgrades and Infestors. So guess what? Here comes 10 Infestors. You want me to get 10+ Colossi? chill out bro. and if u have 4+collosi u can quickly focusfire down the collo that gets NPed first. Albeit it requires micro, enough collosi do stop infestors if u cant NP all the collo quick enough. One of the standard response to ling/infestor is more collosi
Wtf standard response?
stop spreading this shit.
Standard response to ling infestor is mass zealot archon with templars.
We're supposed to focus down our own colossus that gets neuraled?
This is exactly why the game should be balanced around the highest levels of play.
It's a shitfest when people start injecting their own play experience.
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On September 16 2011 05:31 Outofstims wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:29 DreamChaser wrote:On September 16 2011 05:26 aquanda wrote:On September 16 2011 03:49 R0YAL wrote:
Better course of action. But wheres the "FG now slows units instead of eliminating all micro entirely" change? It's coming in the patch where they change force fields to do the same. FF can be negated FG is you can't. So i dont see the similarity where fungal take 1 F to entrap several units, FF takes about 3 PERFECT FF or for the average player 5-7 FF Yeah, the only unit that requires actual micro in the entire Protoss army..
not really...
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On September 16 2011 05:33 minisockey wrote:
k now that leads to the question of what race do i want to switch to protoss or terran...
If this change is so game breaking for you that you need to change race, I seriously suggest you just quit the game.
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EPT
