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On September 11 2011 16:55 iCanada wrote:
I think that the OP provides a very narrow view of things. I don't think anything is as clear cut as someone just having a fixed mindset or just having a growth mindset.
I think fixed/growth is very specific to the situation, ones mood. Hell, I think I approach SC2 with both fixed and growth midesets.
For example, I don't care about my ladder ranking in the slightest. I play probably 20-30 games a week and I pick myself apart, I know I can improve and get better and actively work towards that. I often look for players better than myself to play against so I can better my skills. I also can get frustrated at times, having moments where things aren't going well where I feel like all my effort is going to waste and the game is broken, despite the fact that I know that is garbage and get back at it just as hard once I clear my head a bit.
I really don't feel it is that black and white.
As I have said MANY times before is this thread, the fixed and growth mindsets are polar opposites given for better understanding of the concepts. The reality is much more complex, where many parts of your personality and perceptions contained both growth AND fixed elements.
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Wonderful to hear all the overwhelmingly positive feedback on this post. Like I say I am happy if this post got through to a single person however, it would appear is got through to many more. GL and Thank you!
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Interesting perspective... I had a good laugh about that this: "In SOTG episode 47 you can see an empty EG training house at night with a Lone EG_Puma practicing behind incontrol's laughter and facial zoom-in's." I mean we see players like InControL that says he practices really hardcore and so fourth but then we don't see much of him training, compared to maybe PuMa and IdrA. They just doesn't step it up.
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On September 11 2011 18:25 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 16:12 CheeseMeNot wrote:On September 11 2011 16:04 Nevermoar wrote:
This really resonated with me. Not just for SC2 but for life in general. I'm quite a fixed mindset individual mainly because I really AM very gifted at learning, but lack a lot of motivation and I am quite lazy. Thank you for this. That just means you're pretty smart (high IQ) but lazy. There are plenty of people that are not smart that are lazy as well. It has nothing to do with what they were told as children. It's easy to say things that resonate with people. I could ask you if you sometimes put off important things to a later time such as the next monday and instead do things now that require less effort. Typical fixed mindset!!! This is the epitomy of a fixed mindset. You can 1. Increase your IQ, IQ was never meant to be a FIXED measurement of intelligence, because intelligence in itself is not fixed. 2. People are not inherently lazy but they choose to do some things over others based upon their perceptions of that particular task. 3. People definitely develop their mindset based upon their upbringing. People can definitely change their mindset, and their mindset changes over time, clearly indicating environmental factors as the biggest influence, NOT genetics. I see this post bothered you enough to create a response or two. You have clearly tried to put together some semblance of an analysis on this post. However, It highly doubt you've used a fraction of the effort you spent trying to refute these ideas, to actually analyze yourself. The main point of my post was not to reflect on these ideas as much as to truly reflect on yourself.
1. You cannot increase your IQ past a very low age. If you have proof of anything else, you need to submit it to the scientific community as soon as possible, because it would be a huge breakthrough.
2. People can be inherently lazy, yes. Some people need to work harder to overcome their laziness than others.
3. In part, that's true, but the correlation is likely below .50 and thus has more to do with genetics. People cannot change their mindset, or at least there exist no such proof. Wishing it so does not make it so. Yes we live in an unfair world.
Yes it bothers me. You know nothing of science, you just deal with wishful thinking. Your talk about analyzing myself and blah blah blah is irrelevant. You have all the traits of a charlatan.
edit: You never answered why your theory only works in SC2 for a few countries that you have no proof teaches a more open mindset. Care to?
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On September 11 2011 18:29 RedDragon571 wrote:
Wonderful to hear all the overwhelmingly positive feedback on this post. Like I say I am happy if this post got through to a single person however, it would appear is got through to many more. GL and Thank you!
This is an excellent thread!!
I am truly glad that players are not disregarding everything you say, just because it is the hard truth for a lot of them.
I absolutely like to see that kind of posts, where one takes some time and mental effort in order to determine the cause of a fact/event/situation. Trying to find the link between things, the underlying cause. This is actually called scientific process. And by finding the cause, smart people can cure it and fools can argue that Koreans have RTS DNA.
I have to admit that I, as high Diamond, have had a severe ladder fear. Result of this was me not playing as much as I would like, since I played only when I felt that I was 100% mentally functional. This resulted in really few games, since RL responsibilities usually consumed the most out of me. Hell, last time I seriously laddered and improved was in bloody easter!!!
After a 10game loosing streak a few days ago, I finally got over it. I improved much more in this fail-streak than ever before. Mainly because I felt the lack of gaming in my hands. I theorycrafted, saw a lot of games and all the other stuff. Yet I did not play and it showed in aweful micro and absurdely stupid mistakes, with a topping of zero map awereness.
I decided to try more, play more and when necessary GG more. This will lead me further. More work and more GG. I just hope I had seen this post a lot earlier.
Thanks OP for the effort put in this post. I believe you are to help a lot of mid level players enjoy themselves much more!!
PS: Are you by any chance studying/have studied something in the fields of psychology or exact sciences??
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On September 11 2011 18:41 eYeball wrote:
Interesting perspective... I had a good laugh about that this: "In SOTG episode 47 you can see an empty EG training house at night with a Lone EG_Puma practicing behind incontrol's laughter and facial zoom-in's." I mean we see players like InControL that says he practices really hardcore and so fourth but then we don't see much of him training, compared to maybe PuMa and IdrA. They just doesn't step it up.
haha, I think you bring up a great point! Incontrol is a good example. I would venture to guess, that Incontrol has been practicing harder but for the most part I think he is just fooling himself. When you do anything like lifting weights or playing starcraft you have to push yourself to a level that is an extreme compared to what you had experienced before. Incontrol might be practicing more, but hes not practicing harder. He doesnt have korean level apm, mechanics or multitasking. While many think you don't need that to win games (indeed you don't). You definitely will win more games than you normally would with better mechanics than you would. Most pro foreign sc2 players mechancs are laughable compared to koreans and its because they have either convinced themselves they are fine where they are or they simply don't believe they are capable of it. Both of those idea's are a complete lie, with 3 weeks of practicing incontrol could increase his apm by 100, but in order to do it he would have to lose alot and be uncomfortable. By everything I have heard Groff say on SOTG, I think he doesn't truly believe hes capable of being as good as everyone else. I think incontrols biggest obstacle to getting better is not his handspeed, mechanics or strategy, but himself. If Geoff took the same attitude towards starcraft that he did lifting weights maybe he would have better luck?
PS. Just some guesses, I don't really know the man, so take all this with a grain of salt.
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On September 11 2011 18:48 Notfragile wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 18:29 RedDragon571 wrote:
Wonderful to hear all the overwhelmingly positive feedback on this post. Like I say I am happy if this post got through to a single person however, it would appear is got through to many more. GL and Thank you! This is an excellent thread!! I am truly glad that players are not disregarding everything you say, just because it is the hard truth for a lot of them. I absolutely like to see that kind of posts, where one takes some time and mental effort in order to determine the cause of a fact/event/situation. Trying to find the link between things, the underlying cause. This is actually called scientific process. And by finding the cause, smart people can cure it and fools can argue that Koreans have RTS DNA. I have to admit that I, as high Diamond, have had a severe ladder fear. Result of this was me not playing as much as I would like, since I played only when I felt that I was 100% mentally functional. This resulted in really few games, since RL responsibilities usually consumed the most out of me. Hell, last time I seriously laddered and improved was in bloody easter!!! After a 10game loosing streak a few days ago, I finally got over it. I improved much more in this fail-streak than ever before. Mainly because I felt the lack of gaming in my hands. I theorycrafted, saw a lot of games and all the other stuff. Yet I did not play and it showed in aweful micro and absurdely stupid mistakes, with a topping of zero map awereness. I decided to try more, play more and when necessary GG more. This will lead me further. More work and more GG. I just hope I had seen this post a lot earlier.Thanks OP for the effort put in this post. I believe you are to help a lot of mid level players enjoy themselves much more!! PS: Are you by any chance studying/have studied something in the fields of psychology or exact sciences??
Can you explain why Korea, Sweden, and Ukraine, apparentely teaching people how to have an open mindset do not reach dominance or even great levels of success in most other endeavors that would benefit from this open mindset?
Can you explain how you can say that Koreans, Swedes, and Ukainians have an open mindset solely based on their success in SC2? If you cannot, then how can say their success give any credence to the theory of mindsets?
Imagine if this was a marathon forum instead. Someone could have posted that Kenyans must have been taught to have an open mindset because they succeed so well in this sport. Are you both right? If so, I could give you A LOT of countries that dominate different sports, and it would be no more wrong to say that is because their citizens are taught to have an open mindset. Suddenly most of countries on our planet are great teachers of this mindset, and then Koreas success in SC2 would not be explained by this theory. Or is it that only you are right? It's only applicable to SC2? If so, why?
This does not even resemble a scientific process since you cannot start with the conclusion and then work from there. This is a huge case of confirmation bias.
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On September 11 2011 18:43 CheeseMeNot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 18:25 RedDragon571 wrote:On September 11 2011 16:12 CheeseMeNot wrote:On September 11 2011 16:04 Nevermoar wrote:
This really resonated with me. Not just for SC2 but for life in general. I'm quite a fixed mindset individual mainly because I really AM very gifted at learning, but lack a lot of motivation and I am quite lazy. Thank you for this. That just means you're pretty smart (high IQ) but lazy. There are plenty of people that are not smart that are lazy as well. It has nothing to do with what they were told as children. It's easy to say things that resonate with people. I could ask you if you sometimes put off important things to a later time such as the next monday and instead do things now that require less effort. Typical fixed mindset!!! This is the epitomy of a fixed mindset. You can 1. Increase your IQ, IQ was never meant to be a FIXED measurement of intelligence, because intelligence in itself is not fixed. 2. People are not inherently lazy but they choose to do some things over others based upon their perceptions of that particular task. 3. People definitely develop their mindset based upon their upbringing. People can definitely change their mindset, and their mindset changes over time, clearly indicating environmental factors as the biggest influence, NOT genetics. I see this post bothered you enough to create a response or two. You have clearly tried to put together some semblance of an analysis on this post. However, It highly doubt you've used a fraction of the effort you spent trying to refute these ideas, to actually analyze yourself. The main point of my post was not to reflect on these ideas as much as to truly reflect on yourself. 1. You cannot increase your IQ past a very low age. If you have proof of anything else, you need to submit it to the scientific community as soon as possible, because it would be a huge breakthrough. 2. People can be inherently lazy, yes. Some people need to work harder to overcome their laziness than others. 3. In part, that's true, but the correlation is likely below .50 and thus has more to do with genetics. People cannot change their mindset, or at least there exist no such proof. Wishing it so does not make it so. Yes we live in an unfair world. Yes it bothers me. You know nothing of science, you just deal with wishful thinking. Your talk about analyzing myself and blah blah blah is irrelevant. You have all the traits of a charlatan. edit: You never answered why your theory only works in SC2 for a few countries that you have no proof teaches a more open mindset. Care to?
If you'd put half the effort into creating credible points than you did into bashing me to sooth your own ego, I might have given this a real reply.
"Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."
aka don't feed the trolls
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On September 11 2011 18:48 Notfragile wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 18:29 RedDragon571 wrote:
Wonderful to hear all the overwhelmingly positive feedback on this post. Like I say I am happy if this post got through to a single person however, it would appear is got through to many more. GL and Thank you! This is an excellent thread!! I am truly glad that players are not disregarding everything you say, just because it is the hard truth for a lot of them. I absolutely like to see that kind of posts, where one takes some time and mental effort in order to determine the cause of a fact/event/situation. Trying to find the link between things, the underlying cause. This is actually called scientific process. And by finding the cause, smart people can cure it and fools can argue that Koreans have RTS DNA. I have to admit that I, as high Diamond, have had a severe ladder fear. Result of this was me not playing as much as I would like, since I played only when I felt that I was 100% mentally functional. This resulted in really few games, since RL responsibilities usually consumed the most out of me. Hell, last time I seriously laddered and improved was in bloody easter!!! After a 10game loosing streak a few days ago, I finally got over it. I improved much more in this fail-streak than ever before. Mainly because I felt the lack of gaming in my hands. I theorycrafted, saw a lot of games and all the other stuff. Yet I did not play and it showed in aweful micro and absurdely stupid mistakes, with a topping of zero map awereness. I decided to try more, play more and when necessary GG more. This will lead me further. More work and more GG. I just hope I had seen this post a lot earlier.Thanks OP for the effort put in this post. I believe you are to help a lot of mid level players enjoy themselves much more!! PS: Are you by any chance studying/have studied something in the fields of psychology or exact sciences??
Glad to have helped! I studied industrial engineering for a stint, before sabotaging it with my fixed mindset. Now I am working on biology - Nutrition and diet with a better work ethic! :D
It seems the few that seem to rail out against this thread, are the ones that this is hitting too close too home.
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Nice post, it verbalizes and explains the basis of ladder anxieties.
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On September 11 2011 19:08 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 18:43 CheeseMeNot wrote:On September 11 2011 18:25 RedDragon571 wrote:On September 11 2011 16:12 CheeseMeNot wrote:On September 11 2011 16:04 Nevermoar wrote:
This really resonated with me. Not just for SC2 but for life in general. I'm quite a fixed mindset individual mainly because I really AM very gifted at learning, but lack a lot of motivation and I am quite lazy. Thank you for this. That just means you're pretty smart (high IQ) but lazy. There are plenty of people that are not smart that are lazy as well. It has nothing to do with what they were told as children. It's easy to say things that resonate with people. I could ask you if you sometimes put off important things to a later time such as the next monday and instead do things now that require less effort. Typical fixed mindset!!! This is the epitomy of a fixed mindset. You can 1. Increase your IQ, IQ was never meant to be a FIXED measurement of intelligence, because intelligence in itself is not fixed. 2. People are not inherently lazy but they choose to do some things over others based upon their perceptions of that particular task. 3. People definitely develop their mindset based upon their upbringing. People can definitely change their mindset, and their mindset changes over time, clearly indicating environmental factors as the biggest influence, NOT genetics. I see this post bothered you enough to create a response or two. You have clearly tried to put together some semblance of an analysis on this post. However, It highly doubt you've used a fraction of the effort you spent trying to refute these ideas, to actually analyze yourself. The main point of my post was not to reflect on these ideas as much as to truly reflect on yourself. 1. You cannot increase your IQ past a very low age. If you have proof of anything else, you need to submit it to the scientific community as soon as possible, because it would be a huge breakthrough. 2. People can be inherently lazy, yes. Some people need to work harder to overcome their laziness than others. 3. In part, that's true, but the correlation is likely below .50 and thus has more to do with genetics. People cannot change their mindset, or at least there exist no such proof. Wishing it so does not make it so. Yes we live in an unfair world. Yes it bothers me. You know nothing of science, you just deal with wishful thinking. Your talk about analyzing myself and blah blah blah is irrelevant. You have all the traits of a charlatan. edit: You never answered why your theory only works in SC2 for a few countries that you have no proof teaches a more open mindset. Care to? If you'd put half the effort into creating credible points that you did into bashing me to sooth your own ego, I might have given this a real reply. "Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."
What constitutes a credible point to you? A point that you can agree with?
You have no answer since you just don't know how to answer. Your theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You can only hope to get high-fives from people that wishes it were true as much as you do but have no real knowledge in the subject themselves.
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Thanks very much for the post. I've been having a lot of trouble with this fear lately and I definitely feel your post helps and it's surprising to see how many people feel the exact same.
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I doubt a drop in ladder attendance is due to fear of laddering. To me it seems more like a case of the game's hype wave dying out. I mean come on, this game was hyped to fuckery, not everyone who bought it will have cared about it that much.
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As I work in a psychology-related field, I decided to make my own little contribution to this debate. There are three things in the OP: ladder fear/anxiety, the mindset theory, and why Koreans are so good. I will comment on the ladder fear issue here.
There is quite a lot of discussion in the forums about "ladder anxiety" and "ladder fear", being a somewhat "uneasy" aboud laddering and therefore unable to play as much as one wants. SC2 might be the only game where people must be constantly reminded that it should be fun. That's not normal for a computer game. Not all people experience this, but some do.
The anxiety you feel comes most likely from stress. Now let's narrow down the cause of this phenomenon first. Playing against a computer, now matter how hard, does not cause it; playing in customs does not cause it. Playing against a friend does not (often) trigger the problem. And, most importantly, if you know that the opponent is much less skilled than you, ladder anxiety doesn't emerge. The stress in laddering, like in real life, emerges because you are pushed to the outer edges of your abilities. It emerges when a person is faced with a sustained challenge that is perceived just barely possible, or impossible, to achieve. The feeling of not being in control of events increases stress.
Starcraft ladder creates a stressful situation for some players by targeting the 50-50 win/loss ratio. As soon as you face oppontents that you feel you can handle in a relaxed way, you will automatically hit the wall again. The game is almost always out of your control, or feels that way.
What can be done about it? Now, you probably ladder to get better in rank & league, and thus you want to win as many games as possible. But that's wrong. Ranking and promotions are your long term goals. Practice requires short term goals which are not stressful. Suppose your short term goal is actually something that is very easy to achieve. Let's say you are in silver and your goal is, "I do not want to get demoted to bronze". Suddely, you do not need to win against better players; you just have to avoid losing many times against much worse players. The trick is that this is a goal that is totally under your control. Whatever goal works for you will do, of course. It must be something that you feel very easy about, something you can definitely achieve with minimal effort. The goal cannot remain "abstract", you really have to make a commitment to try to achieve it.
Like so many other players, I have many real life responsibilities, so I don't have the energy to get stressed about a computer game. Yet I still want to understand SC better, and I like the game a lot. When I was in bronze, my only committed goal was to keep my bonus points at zero. It was a goal that I certainly felt able to achieve.
Let's take an analogous skill, playing an instrument. By far the biggest part of improving is in executing fairly mechanical exercises. But when you do those, you do not set up very high short term goals. The goal may be, for instance, "I must play this sonata ten times". There are those moments when the stakes are higher, but for the most part the stakes are really low. Ladder does not allow this, because there is no "matched unranked" play---unless you change your own mindset about it.
Your long term goal is, of course, to master the game better. But this comes naturally with practice.
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On September 11 2011 19:08 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 18:43 CheeseMeNot wrote:On September 11 2011 18:25 RedDragon571 wrote:On September 11 2011 16:12 CheeseMeNot wrote:On September 11 2011 16:04 Nevermoar wrote:
This really resonated with me. Not just for SC2 but for life in general. I'm quite a fixed mindset individual mainly because I really AM very gifted at learning, but lack a lot of motivation and I am quite lazy. Thank you for this. That just means you're pretty smart (high IQ) but lazy. There are plenty of people that are not smart that are lazy as well. It has nothing to do with what they were told as children. It's easy to say things that resonate with people. I could ask you if you sometimes put off important things to a later time such as the next monday and instead do things now that require less effort. Typical fixed mindset!!! This is the epitomy of a fixed mindset. You can 1. Increase your IQ, IQ was never meant to be a FIXED measurement of intelligence, because intelligence in itself is not fixed. 2. People are not inherently lazy but they choose to do some things over others based upon their perceptions of that particular task. 3. People definitely develop their mindset based upon their upbringing. People can definitely change their mindset, and their mindset changes over time, clearly indicating environmental factors as the biggest influence, NOT genetics. I see this post bothered you enough to create a response or two. You have clearly tried to put together some semblance of an analysis on this post. However, It highly doubt you've used a fraction of the effort you spent trying to refute these ideas, to actually analyze yourself. The main point of my post was not to reflect on these ideas as much as to truly reflect on yourself. 1. You cannot increase your IQ past a very low age. If you have proof of anything else, you need to submit it to the scientific community as soon as possible, because it would be a huge breakthrough. 2. People can be inherently lazy, yes. Some people need to work harder to overcome their laziness than others. 3. In part, that's true, but the correlation is likely below .50 and thus has more to do with genetics. People cannot change their mindset, or at least there exist no such proof. Wishing it so does not make it so. Yes we live in an unfair world. Yes it bothers me. You know nothing of science, you just deal with wishful thinking. Your talk about analyzing myself and blah blah blah is irrelevant. You have all the traits of a charlatan. edit: You never answered why your theory only works in SC2 for a few countries that you have no proof teaches a more open mindset. Care to? If you'd put half the effort into creating credible points than you did into bashing me to sooth your own ego, I might have given this a real reply. "Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." aka don't feed the trolls
What? He makes three completely reasonable points that actually point to scientific findings, and your only answer is to label him as a troll?
You have absolutely no substance in your reply, you just argue ad hominem. I see you've done this several times throughout this thread, if someone agrees, you pride yourself of making a great thread, if people disagree and post specific replies about the content of your post, you dismiss them as trolls.
"If you'd put half the effort into creating plausible posts as you did into bashing any attempt to correct you, you might have created a useful thread." See how easy it is to spout ad hominem replies without actually responding to content?
I'd like to see you address the actual three points pointed out in that reply, as I was going to make pretty much the same reply. I was surprised nobody had brought those issues up yet, but turns out you just don't answer them.
Edit: Also, as to 1., I believe training the double n-back test was shown to have a lasting transferrable effect on intelligence, but indeed this is an extremely rare property. There is very little known about how to increase your IQ, and that is the whole reason why IQ tests are paid so much attention to: The scores are pretty stable.
I find it rather telling that you would write so much about mindset and then display such a stubborn unwillingness to engage in a conversation involving opinions that don't agree with your own.
Also, as to people's general discussions about talent vs hard work, this is a great write-up on the topic: http://www.amazon.com/Talent-Overrated-Separates-World-Class-Performers/dp/1591842247 -- but the essence of it comes from a Harvard Business Review study and can be found there. (This was already discussed at length in another thread a while back.)
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On September 11 2011 19:44 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 19:08 RedDragon571 wrote:On September 11 2011 18:43 CheeseMeNot wrote:On September 11 2011 18:25 RedDragon571 wrote:On September 11 2011 16:12 CheeseMeNot wrote:On September 11 2011 16:04 Nevermoar wrote:
This really resonated with me. Not just for SC2 but for life in general. I'm quite a fixed mindset individual mainly because I really AM very gifted at learning, but lack a lot of motivation and I am quite lazy. Thank you for this. That just means you're pretty smart (high IQ) but lazy. There are plenty of people that are not smart that are lazy as well. It has nothing to do with what they were told as children. It's easy to say things that resonate with people. I could ask you if you sometimes put off important things to a later time such as the next monday and instead do things now that require less effort. Typical fixed mindset!!! This is the epitomy of a fixed mindset. You can 1. Increase your IQ, IQ was never meant to be a FIXED measurement of intelligence, because intelligence in itself is not fixed. 2. People are not inherently lazy but they choose to do some things over others based upon their perceptions of that particular task. 3. People definitely develop their mindset based upon their upbringing. People can definitely change their mindset, and their mindset changes over time, clearly indicating environmental factors as the biggest influence, NOT genetics. I see this post bothered you enough to create a response or two. You have clearly tried to put together some semblance of an analysis on this post. However, It highly doubt you've used a fraction of the effort you spent trying to refute these ideas, to actually analyze yourself. The main point of my post was not to reflect on these ideas as much as to truly reflect on yourself. 1. You cannot increase your IQ past a very low age. If you have proof of anything else, you need to submit it to the scientific community as soon as possible, because it would be a huge breakthrough. 2. People can be inherently lazy, yes. Some people need to work harder to overcome their laziness than others. 3. In part, that's true, but the correlation is likely below .50 and thus has more to do with genetics. People cannot change their mindset, or at least there exist no such proof. Wishing it so does not make it so. Yes we live in an unfair world. Yes it bothers me. You know nothing of science, you just deal with wishful thinking. Your talk about analyzing myself and blah blah blah is irrelevant. You have all the traits of a charlatan. edit: You never answered why your theory only works in SC2 for a few countries that you have no proof teaches a more open mindset. Care to? If you'd put half the effort into creating credible points than you did into bashing me to sooth your own ego, I might have given this a real reply. "Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." aka don't feed the trolls What? He makes three completely reasonable points that actually point to scientific findings, and your only answer is to label him as a troll? You have absolutely no substance in your reply, you just argue ad hominem. I see you've done this several times throughout this thread, if someone agrees, you pride yourself of making a great thread, if people disagree and post specific replies about the content of your post, you dismiss them as trolls. "If you'd put half the effort into creating plausible posts as you did into bashing any attempt to correct you, you might have created a useful thread." See how easy it is to spout ad hominem replies without actually responding to content? I'd like to see you address the actual three points pointed out in that reply, as I was going to make pretty much the same reply. I was surprised nobody had brought those issues up yet, but turns out you just don't answer them. Edit: Also, as to 1., I believe training the double n-back test was shown to have a lasting transferrable effect on intelligence, but indeed this is an extremely rare property. There is very little known about how to increase your IQ, and that is the whole reason why IQ tests are paid so much attention to: The scores are pretty stable. I find it rather telling that you would write so much about mindset and then display such a stubborn unwillingness to engage in a conversation involving opinions that don't agree with your own. Also, as to people's general discussions about talent vs hard work, this is a great write-up on the topic: http://www.amazon.com/Talent-Overrated-Separates-World-Class-Performers/dp/1591842247 -- but the essence of it comes from a Harvard Business Review study and can be found there. (This was already discussed at length in another thread a while back.)
I agree. I've seen several great critical posts yet the OP seems to only reply to the positive one and either ignore or disregard the critical ones. Growth/fixed mindsets might be a part of this but OP is trying to hard to incorporate this into both player success and why 1vs1 is not as popular when there's other easier explanations available.
Also:
On September 11 2011 19:12 RedDragon571 wrote:
It seems the few that seem to rail out against this thread, are the ones that this is hitting too close too home.
That just adds to the point. Seems like everyone who's critical either didn't undestand or is taking offence to the content. It's not like people can disagree on the actual science and argument made.
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On September 07 2011 08:42 RedDragon571 wrote:
The short summary of it all is that some people depending on their upbringing develop fixed mindsets and some develop growth mindsets. Now its more complex than that because some people have different parts of their personality that are growth AND fixed.
Then what part of the population is represented by these "some people" ?
Are there people who doesn't fall in either of these categories, who have both mindsets or neither ? A personnality is a whole, I don't see how part of your personnality is fixed and the other may not be. Because from what I see in my daily life, only a few individual can actually tell "i have that mindset", and most people can't. I don't know, fixed and growth mindsets feel a bit BSy to me...
EDIT : For my case, it seems that I should be fixed mindset because, apparently, my upbringing tells me that's what I am. Now when I look at who I am and who I've been since a child, I see almost nothing that describes me in that definition of fixed mindset, but also amost nothing that describes me in that definition of growth mindset. I really don't like in your post that there's too much emphasis on one's upbringing, which seems like a very bad approach.
Also how laddering in 1v1 in a video game may be relevant to your personnality baffles me.
EDIT 2 : That's it, found what annoys me the most. Fixed and growth mindsets are way too different, you don't present any middle ground, just a large cleavage, and claims that people fall in either of these categories, with a few exceptions. I don't believe anyone can clearly fit either description. Put some shades of grey in there, please.
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Very nice write, and its true.
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Good read. Thx OP. This is why i love TL... Loved the video on the first page.
"Do you want success as bad as you want to breathe?"
No i definitely don't :/ now to change that.... Should i work sundays .... f me.
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|
|
|
EPT
