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On September 08 2011 08:40 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 17:51 CatNzHat wrote:
Seems like the "fixed-mindset" is looked upon negatively... wonder what mindset the people who wrote that article consider themselves?
The stats you put in the OP are miss-labeled, and unformatted, would be nice to see something fact based, instead of a bunch of un-sourced numbers and a caption saying "this means I'm right". just do some googling, I provided links and the book itself has clinical studies. How many TL post have proper formatting btw, lol. By the way doing an ad hominem attack on the people who wrote this article is indicative of a fixed mindset. If i had to guess, Id say you saw alot of yourself in the fixed mindset section and now to protect your pride your railing out against it. You dont have to have a fixed mindset forever, you can change. You got to be critical of yourself.
Boom. Dismantled.
It's funny how people complain so much about lack of sources and citations. Sure, they're worth pointing out, but you have gone too far when you act offended because someone possibly made a mistake on a community forum.
This isn't a scientific journal; there's no need to go overboard.
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On September 08 2011 08:59 Divergence wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 08:40 RedDragon571 wrote:On September 07 2011 17:51 CatNzHat wrote:
Seems like the "fixed-mindset" is looked upon negatively... wonder what mindset the people who wrote that article consider themselves?
The stats you put in the OP are miss-labeled, and unformatted, would be nice to see something fact based, instead of a bunch of un-sourced numbers and a caption saying "this means I'm right". just do some googling, I provided links and the book itself has clinical studies. How many TL post have proper formatting btw, lol. By the way doing an ad hominem attack on the people who wrote this article is indicative of a fixed mindset. If i had to guess, Id say you saw alot of yourself in the fixed mindset section and now to protect your pride your railing out against it. You dont have to have a fixed mindset forever, you can change. You got to be critical of yourself. Boom. Dismantled. It's funny how people complain so much about lack of sources and citations. Sure, they're worth pointing out, but you have gone too far when you act offended because someone possibly made a mistake on a community forum. This isn't a scientific journal; there's no need to go overboard.
lol, no kidding, I said it was a theory, its debatable for sure. People just don't want to admit they have flaws, and you can never fix your flaws, if you don't accept they exist. :D
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On September 07 2011 17:55 -Dustin- wrote:
Right now I'm stuck in a fixed mindset, Wanting to have a growth mindset as improvment is all I want but it just annoys me to lose. I've never had a problem with losing in games before untill I started Starcraft2 I sadly missed out on multiplayer Starcraft1 due to internet issues.
I strive to learn about the game and how to improve, but my biggest problem is I have no friends/clan mates to practice with. The only player that has given me critism about my play was I believe you. I met a guy in a 1v1 Obs game when I was low diamond his name was BugRancher a master Zerg, Added him played a couple games with him and his critism helped me improve my macro and move up into Master league. The only real players I have to practice with is a Diamond Toss. Good friend but it doesn't teach me much, But I enjoy helping him improve his PvZ. Makes me wish I had someone to do the same for me.
I believe you are the BugRancher I had added as someone changed their name to Eff0rt on my list. My ingame name is Dustin with the Kate Lockwell picture, Thanks for helping me improve :p. We should play a few games sometimes maybe this time I can beat you.
Lmao, thats me, I'm bugrancher, ROFL
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I definitely was a very fixed mindsetted person back when I was 14-18.
I sort of thought of this whole, "I'm special thing" on my own a while ago and wondered if the world would be a better place if people were simply told that they aren't worth anything until they've earned it.
And that anything you are born with is arbitrary and isn't something you've earned (economic / racial background).
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On September 08 2011 14:55 cydial wrote:
I definitely was a very fixed mindsetted person back when I was 14-18.
I sort of thought of this whole, "I'm special thing" on my own a while ago and wondered if the world would be a better place if people were simply told that they aren't worth anything until they've earned it.
And that anything you are born with is arbitrary and isn't something you've earned (economic / racial background).
thumbs up! :D, I've been finding that out the hard way
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On September 07 2011 16:56 Xacalite wrote:
So if I understand correctly you say that a fixed mindsets biggest fear is failure....but then you count naniwa as a growth mindset player? Naniwa said multiple times that failure is unacceptable and he does not care about anything but winning. Still he is one of the best because he works hard.
Another example is IdrA. When SC2 was starting he was in korea all on his own focusing only on practice. Reading your definitions IdrA clearly counts as a fixed mindset (Toss OP etc. you said it yourself) still he was the best foreigner in the first half year of starcraft 2. He made it past the cruel GSL Open qualifiers three times and never dropped out in the Ro64. He even made two Ro8. So I really dont see how your logic (if it can be called logic) is applied here.
All of the above are things that should be unachievable with your so called fixed mindset.
You also said that people that play team or custom games for fun or to try out new builds do that because of fear of 1v1? Are you serious? Is trying new stuff outside of the 1v1 ladder now forbidden? A real grotesque image.
In clonclusion I must say that Im happy to see people putting thought in this community but I find your write up very illinformed, riddled with contradictions and bad reasoning. Im glad the "mindset" book gave you the epiphany you needed but please dont call your post "ladder fear explained". LT.net is not a sect. Ladder fear is not explained by a book nor your personal understanding of the human mind and has even less to do with Koreans/Scandinavians being better that most NA-players.
im sure at one point they had a growth mindset. but when they let there fame/ego get into how they play.. they crumble. Do i really need to give examples for idra? watch any mlg hes played.
He gives up as soon as he makes a mistake.
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I wish everybody ever saw this post so they could feel a little bit lamer for BM'ing each time. I really do hate the amount of BM that SC2 has brought to the scene, even though I'm more excited for the overall scene compared to Brood War.
I also hope the Korean culture within Starcraft never does die--it's pretty defining of my experience overall.
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I'm pretty much the fixed mindset in a lot of things (school) but one of the many reasons i've always loved competitive gaming and sports is because I have to work hard to excell at it. Problem is though I often "fall back" to the fixed mindset once I reach a certain level of "skill" in a competitive setting. So it basically becomes a constant struggle trying to find my way back to the growth mindset.
I think a lot of progamers do fall back into a fixed mindset once they've reached a certain goal in their career though. The key is to always stay in the growth mindset. Examples of people who are always in the growth mindset would probably be SaSe, Naniwa or HuK.
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What about the people that are just inherently good and play this game casually? What does that fall under?
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I loved reading this thread. I have a BIG problem with ladder fear. Most of my days are like this: I wake up, I go to my boring job (which I hate) for 8 hours, I come home, I sit down at my computer, I dont do jack shit and then I go to bed and repeat. (This is basicly my last 10 years.). Almost every day I say to myself (while at work), I should play some ladder games when I come home, but I never do it. A lot of times I actually launch SC2 and I just sit and watch at the screen and then I close the game. Im stuck, deep down in this damn depression which doesnt make things easier. I dont care about anything. I have nothing im good at, and it sucks big time, but im afraid of doing anything about it for some reason... I dont know what to do.. im so screwed.
Edit: Somehow I forgot to add that I played 5 placement matches, was put into Platinum league. Then I played 10 or so more matches and got put into Diamond league, then I played like 2 more games and I stopped.
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I don't have ladder apprehension or whatever you call it.
I did have nervousness the first few times in broodwar for my first few ladder games, but that went away.
The people that do have nervousness, what are you scared of? this isn't meant to be a bash, I'm just curious.
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On September 11 2011 11:36 CrazylikE wrote:
I loved reading this thread. I have a BIG problem with ladder fear. Most of my days are like this: I wake up, I go to my boring job (which I hate) for 8 hours, I come home, I sit down at my computer, I dont do jack shit and then I go to bed and repeat. (This is basicly my last 10 years.). Almost every day I say to myself (while at work), I should play some ladder games when I come home, but I never do it. A lot of times I actually launch SC2 and I just sit and watch at the screen and then I close the game. Im stuck, deep down in this damn depression which doesnt make things easier. I dont care about anything. I have nothing im good at, and it sucks big time, but im afraid of doing anything about it for some reason... I dont know what to do.. im so screwed.
Edit: Somehow I forgot to add that I played 5 placement matches, was put into Platinum league. Then I played 10 or so more matches and got put into Diamond league, then I played like 2 more games and I stopped.
What is your job that you hate so much?
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Read a study that having this conception of being inferior in the game plays on you during competitions and such.
For example, blacks are capable of doing well in studies during unofficial tests, yet when it came to the actual test, they are unable to perform and the stereotype affects their performance.
I say its the same for foreigners when they play against the koreans. The fact that koreans are superior in the game plays in their minds and distracts the foreigners, thus not allowing them to perform to their best.
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I don't think ladder season numbers are terribly signifigant to the success of SC2 as an esport. How many people have dreams of being high end is more important than how many people are willing to screw around a bit competitively. Many of the casual players, and those who watch e-sports, might be quite happy to just play UMS, or not even play at all, just watch the best players play.
That's where I'm standing anyways.
How many people who watch the superbowl actually ever joined a football league?
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I'd like to know where you get the idea that Europe is much better than NA, I mean it has more players at a high level but individually Idra, Select, Kiwi, and Sheth all can measure up to anyone in Europe and HuK is frankly better than anyone Europe has to offer
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Wow, didn't know we had lost so many players over the year. I mean, I know the drop-off during the first couple of years would be the worst, but I didn't think it would be so many. Let's hope HotS and some bnet improvements might bring some of them back.
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Wow, fantastic article. I never really thought about fixed or growth mindsets towards life in general. My father would always say challenge yourself but I didn't fully understand how and why. I am bookmarking this and hopefully I can turn my life around to succeed in my personal, profession and sc2 life.
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Interesting read, I guess. But I don't think anyone thinks Koreans are born superior BW/SC2 players... I hope not at least... or else I fear for the human race...
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pretty bad to see such a decline in the player population, but hard PC games are hard, so i cant imagine it growing that much. at least the spectator aspect of SC keeps getting bigger.
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On September 07 2011 09:04 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:Reminds me a little of this motivational video: + Show Spoiler +I wonder how many sc2 players really give it as much as they possibly can.
So was he successful?
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EPT
