EPTedit: And what it has to do with Korea, Sweden and Ukraine is beyond me. The theory itself isn't really applicable only to SC2. Are you saying Koreans, Swedes and Ukrainians dominate sports in general? Or even other games? Or do you have ANY reason why this is true only for SC2? You approached this from the wrong direction. You can't begin with the conclusion after reading a book, and then try to fit it into anything you want it to fit into. If you had begun studying the cultures first, then objectively reasoned that those countries reach more success in endeavors that you *previously* thought would gain from this mindset, then you would have something that looks and sounds like a theory. Alas, you did not.
Ladder fear and The Korean Enigma explained. - Page 11
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CheeseMeNot
80 Posts
edit: And what it has to do with Korea, Sweden and Ukraine is beyond me. The theory itself isn't really applicable only to SC2. Are you saying Koreans, Swedes and Ukrainians dominate sports in general? Or even other games? Or do you have ANY reason why this is true only for SC2? You approached this from the wrong direction. You can't begin with the conclusion after reading a book, and then try to fit it into anything you want it to fit into. If you had begun studying the cultures first, then objectively reasoned that those countries reach more success in endeavors that you *previously* thought would gain from this mindset, then you would have something that looks and sounds like a theory. Alas, you did not. | ||
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LuciferSC
Canada535 Posts
Love the video, and sir, did u even watch the whole thing before u bothered replying? 'Work at it 'till you don't even care about the money, that's success' | ||
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oZe
Sweden492 Posts
If you want to be number one. You gotta do what's right pretty much all the time. Even when it hurts your very essence of lazy futuristic fail... Ps. It's funny how people think they're more or less entitled to win in a game of skill because they "know" how great they are =) | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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WilliamSC
United States2 Posts
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MechKing
United States3004 Posts
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kabar
United States616 Posts
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theBOOCH
United States832 Posts
For people who don't understand the OP, he's saying that the reason the Koreans and Swedes and successful players succeed is that they have an open mindset, and are raised in a culture that promotes that open mindset. As to the ladder fear issue, people with and open mindset might have less ladder fear because they are less interested in winning or losing or validating assumptions they have about themselves and more interested in growing and learning and doing what they love. A side effect of this, that I think is reflected in the ladder stats is that they might more easily become disinterested after a while because they don't have anything to prove and aren't trying to be "the best." Good jorb, friend. | ||
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CheeseMeNot
80 Posts
On September 11 2011 15:35 theBOOCH wrote: For people who don't understand the OP, he's saying that the reason the Koreans and Swedes and successful players succeed is that they have an open mindset, and are raised in a culture that promotes that open mindset. If that is true, why does it only show itself in SC2 and perhaps a few other activities or sports? Jamaicans must sure have a good mindset too, since they run so fast. Chinese must have it too, since they are so good at table tennis and badminton. Brasilians too, they are really good at football. But why aren't Brasilians good at table tennis, and Chinese good at running? Why aren't any of these good at SC2? Strange. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On September 11 2011 15:22 kabar wrote: i'm no psychologist but all that stuff basically just sounds like having an ego vs not having an ego. that is something you can change. as for the culture connection and all that, some countries foster egos more than others. remember all that 'you're a special kid' crap in american schools? yea. You know what else they teach in American schools? You can do whatever you put your mind to! | ||
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Neverplay
Austria532 Posts
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GoatSwarm
Sweden63 Posts
I've had the same with StarCraft, I've cared so so much about winning that I almost cried when I lost. However, I've managed to turn it around a little bit, because I realized if I keep doing this I will never improve to where I want to be. I think reading this book might help me on my way.  Thank you for a very nice writeup. | ||
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UniversalMind
United States326 Posts
insight write pretty much summarizes that area in particular that I think the same about | ||
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Nevermoar
United States1 Post
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hooktits
United States972 Posts
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CheeseMeNot
80 Posts
On September 11 2011 16:04 Nevermoar wrote: This really resonated with me. Not just for SC2 but for life in general. I'm quite a fixed mindset individual mainly because I really AM very gifted at learning, but lack a lot of motivation and I am quite lazy. Thank you for this. That just means you're pretty smart (high IQ) but lazy. There are plenty of people that are not smart that are lazy as well. It has nothing to do with what they were told as children. It's easy to say things that resonate with people. I could ask you if you sometimes put off important things to a later time such as the next monday and instead do things now that require less effort. Typical fixed mindset!!! | ||
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cydial
United States750 Posts
On September 07 2011 16:56 Xacalite wrote: So if I understand correctly you say that a fixed mindsets biggest fear is failure....but then you count naniwa as a growth mindset player? Naniwa said multiple times that failure is unacceptable and he does not care about anything but winning. Still he is one of the best because he works hard. Another example is IdrA. When SC2 was starting he was in korea all on his own focusing only on practice. Reading your definitions IdrA clearly counts as a fixed mindset (Toss OP etc. you said it yourself) still he was the best foreigner in the first half year of starcraft 2. He made it past the cruel GSL Open qualifiers three times and never dropped out in the Ro64. He even made two Ro8. So I really dont see how your logic (if it can be called logic) is applied here. All of the above are things that should be unachievable with your so called fixed mindset. You also said that people that play team or custom games for fun or to try out new builds do that because of fear of 1v1? Are you serious? Is trying new stuff outside of the 1v1 ladder now forbidden? A real grotesque image. In clonclusion I must say that Im happy to see people putting thought in this community but I find your write up very illinformed, riddled with contradictions and bad reasoning. Im glad the "mindset" book gave you the epiphany you needed but please dont call your post "ladder fear explained". LT.net is not a sect. Ladder fear is not explained by a book nor your personal understanding of the human mind and has even less to do with Koreans/Scandinavians being better that most NA-players. A mindset that doesn't change at all is a bad thing, the OP is saying that Idra would be a better player if he were more critical of himself instead of prefering to save his own self image. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I think fixed/growth is very specific to the situation, ones mood. Hell, I think I approach SC2 with both fixed and growth midesets. For example, I don't care about my ladder ranking in the slightest. I play probably 20-30 games a week and I pick myself apart, I know I can improve and get better and actively work towards that. I often look for players better than myself to play against so I can better my skills. I also can get frustrated at times, having moments where things aren't going well where I feel like all my effort is going to waste and the game is broken, despite the fact that I know that is garbage and get back at it just as hard once I clear my head a bit. I really don't feel it is that black and white. | ||
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Knuppe
90 Posts
It's just the ego trying to defend itself nothing else, I am surprised people havent realised this yet. | ||
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RedDragon571
United States633 Posts
On September 11 2011 16:12 CheeseMeNot wrote: That just means you're pretty smart (high IQ) but lazy. There are plenty of people that are not smart that are lazy as well. It has nothing to do with what they were told as children. It's easy to say things that resonate with people. I could ask you if you sometimes put off important things to a later time such as the next monday and instead do things now that require less effort. Typical fixed mindset!!! This is the epitomy of a fixed mindset. You can 1. Increase your IQ, IQ was never meant to be a FIXED measurement of intelligence, because intelligence in itself is not fixed. 2. People are not inherently lazy but they choose to do some things over others based upon their perceptions of that particular task. 3. People definitely develop their mindset based upon their upbringing. People can definitely change their mindset, and their mindset changes over time, clearly indicating environmental factors as the biggest influence, NOT genetics. I see this post bothered you enough to create a response or two. You have clearly tried to put together some semblance of an analysis on this post. However, It highly doubt you've used a fraction of the effort you spent trying to refute these ideas, to actually analyze yourself. The main point of my post was not to reflect on these ideas as much as to truly reflect on yourself. | ||
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