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On September 07 2011 16:56 Xacalite wrote:
So if I understand correctly you say that a fixed mindsets biggest fear is failure....but then you count naniwa as a growth mindset player? Naniwa said multiple times that failure is unacceptable and he does not care about anything but winning. Still he is one of the best because he works hard.
Another example is IdrA. When SC2 was starting he was in korea all on his own focusing only on practice. Reading your definitions IdrA clearly counts as a fixed mindset (Toss OP etc. you said it yourself) still he was the best foreigner in the first half year of starcraft 2. He made it past the cruel GSL Open qualifiers three times and never dropped out in the Ro64. He even made two Ro8. So I really dont see how your logic (if it can be called logic) is applied here.
All of the above are things that should be unachievable with your so called fixed mindset.
You fail to realize that it isn't black or white when it comes to fixed or growth mindsets. There are shades of grey, especially with Naniwa and IdrA.
Naniwa is still likely to train with some type of growth mentality, learning from his mistakes (losses) and Koreans, not focusing on some type of arbitrary ceiling that most people set for themselves
IdrA does have a shitty mindset, and you can actually tell that it is hurting his performance lately. I think his early success does have something to do with this growth mindset, considering he went to Korea and got onto a team in BW and refining his play there. I'm positive that there is a difference between his mindset after losing a game and when he is talking to other players in the house about a match-up. I could only imagine how much stronger he would be with a good mindset.
Anyway, my main point is that you take growth and fixed mindset as black and white, even though there is a grey area on the spectrum.
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On September 07 2011 08:45 garlicface wrote:
Would've appreciated this post more if you didn't blast EffOrt in the first paragraph.
But it's true! I love EffOrt too but he does look like an alien! I want to see him play again 
I really enjoyed this post and it gave me a lot to think about. I think the majority of the SC community have fixed mindsets as you describe and that often does cause a lot of conflict, in the forums and in game, because we all think that we're better than everyone else to some degree.
This is the case with a lot of gamers, especially since many of us such as myself come from high academic schooling backgrounds, finish school but then are confronted with something that's actually difficult and call bullshit and give up or procrastinate until the problem will hopefully magically go away. I dropped out of uni for several reasons but this had to have been a strong contributor. It's something I hope to change about myself and I will be returning to university but perhaps to study something not so difficult. I think changing from a growth mindset to a fixed mindset is a very gradual process, but it's kind of a catch 22 because someone with a fixed mindset will believe that they can get there no problem.
In regard to laddering, I barely play 1v1 anymore but I keep telling myself I should, I always end up playing 4s or 3s though but even though I play that a fair bit I often realise that I really need to improve myself as a player when it comes to the end result of the game. Sure there are other players in team games that are bad (comparitively) and sometimes it is even their fault that you lost but if you focus on your own part in that game you will always find things to improve and sometimes even make up for the mistakes of your teammates.
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Nice write up, enjoyed reading it.
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On September 07 2011 16:56 Xacalite wrote:
So if I understand correctly you say that a fixed mindsets biggest fear is failure....but then you count naniwa as a growth mindset player? Naniwa said multiple times that failure is unacceptable and he does not care about anything but winning. Still he is one of the best because he works hard.
Another example is IdrA. When SC2 was starting he was in korea all on his own focusing only on practice. Reading your definitions IdrA clearly counts as a fixed mindset (Toss OP etc. you said it yourself) still he was the best foreigner in the first half year of starcraft 2. He made it past the cruel GSL Open qualifiers three times and never dropped out in the Ro64. He even made two Ro8. So I really dont see how your logic (if it can be called logic) is applied here.
All of the above are things that should be unachievable with your so called fixed mindset.
I think you misunderstood Naniwa - when he says he just cares about winning, what this means is, that he considers getting 2nd or 3rd place not as a success for him.
Nevertheless he repeatedly stated, that he wanted to go to Korea because his opponents on EU/NA ladder don't give him enough troubles. And this is exactly what the OP mentioned - Naniwa wants to face the harshest competition, he wants to learn to battle vs the best executed cheese, the perfectly timed 111. And after he went to Korea he even said that he didn't expect to win, but that he'll need time to adjust and improve further.
With your example of IdrA, I think the fixed mindset does partially apply, yet on a pretty high level. IdrA seems to think that he's "supposed" to win vs everybody, because he is "that" good. He doesn't seem to embrace his losses as a way to improve, to rework and further fine-tune his strategies.
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On September 07 2011 17:21 Mr.Brightside wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 08:45 garlicface wrote:
Would've appreciated this post more if you didn't blast EffOrt in the first paragraph. But it's true! I love EffOrt too but he does look like an alien! I want to see him play again I really enjoyed this post and it gave me a lot to think about. I think the majority of the SC community have fixed mindsets as you describe and that often does cause a lot of conflict, in the forums and in game, because we all think that we're better than everyone else to some degree. This is the case with a lot of gamers, especially since many of us such as myself come from high academic schooling backgrounds, finish school but then are confronted with something that's actually difficult and call bullshit and give up or procrastinate until the problem will hopefully magically go away. I dropped out of uni for several reasons but this had to have been a strong contributor. It's something I hope to change about myself and I will be returning to university but perhaps to study something not so difficult. I think changing from a growth mindset to a fixed mindset is a very gradual process, but it's kind of a catch 22 because someone with a fixed mindset will believe that they can get there no problem. In regard to laddering, I barely play 1v1 anymore but I keep telling myself I should, I always end up playing 4s or 3s though but even though I play that a fair bit I often realise that I really need to improve myself as a player when it comes to the end result of the game. Sure there are other players in team games that are bad (comparitively) and sometimes it is even their fault that you lost but if you focus on your own part in that game you will always find things to improve and sometimes even make up for the mistakes of your teammates.
I've found team games can be great for focusing on mechanics and speed without losing 400 ladder points. Although when it does come to laddering if you are focused on getting better at 1 v 1, you gotta figure your mindset is holding you back.
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this question was asked on Day9 a few days ago you no WTF he said!
JUST DO IT!!!!!
you win some you lose some....its life
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Sleepingdog and Demonace34 , thank you for adressing the Naniwa Idra paraodx, I was about to do it myself. Indeed noone is purely fixed or purely growth. Pro player MTW Rine (same team as dimaga) commented a while back that his success in BW hindered his growth in sc2 due to his "expected success." I'm guessing Idra has the same issues, still arrogant and with a new bad mindset from his BW days (seems to have gone to his head). Very good points!
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On September 07 2011 17:34 ki11z0ne wrote:
this question was asked on Day9 a few days ago you no WTF he said!
JUST DO IT!!!!!
you win some you lose some....its life
day9 seems to have a very hardworking growth based mindset, It's honestly hard for people that don't have fixed mindsets to understand fixed mindsets and vice versa. Just do it, i don't think deals with the core issue as much as understanding yourself. But yeah pretty much, just do it, more gg, more skill!
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On September 07 2011 14:28 RedDragon571 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 07 2011 14:06 BeyondCtrL wrote:Hmm, the initial paragraphs of the fixed mind set were pretty much describing my childhood-adolescence. However as it continued, especially where it comes to correlating this sort of mindset as an explanation to ladder fear, it did not make sense to me that it was the main cause. I've been thinking on the OP's post and would like to offer another argument, as I believe this mindset difference (and tbh oversimplified) is not the only problem for a declining player base. ************ I do not consider the contents below as the real facts or truth. I only want to present an argument from my perspective and experience. ************ 1. TIME! It's so simple. I love SC2, I love playing 1v1 ladder. Mostly I love playing at my mid masters level where for me the games are extremely fun and challenging no matter win/loss. Sadly I just don't have the time to play. I haven't had the time to play at all the past month because of studies and other engagements. I re-qualified for masters this season, but I have only played five games. I come home too tired to sit down and ladder, instead I relax by watching GSL and other tournaments. I would love to play in GM league, or to strive for it, but I know I don't have the time. To actually be good at this game is almost like having a full time job. I don't resent this or blame it, in fact I revel in it only knowing that this makes the tournaments even better and more exiting to watch. Some people who bought the game will come back and play during the holidays (the ones who love this game), but you should consider that there are a lot of people who buy the game and only play the campaign (lots of casual players who simply aren't interested in competitive gaming and are only interested in playing a new game for a while then moving on to another game). Playing Starcraft 2 the way OP suggests is making it more than just a game. It is a hobby. Just because someone bought the game doesn't mean SC2 is their hobby or passion. For example half my guild in WoW bought SC2 only to play through the campaign and some ladder games out of curiosity only to never log in again. They went back to WoW because that game is their hobby, not because they were scared of ladder or that the psychology was wrong, it was as simple as the fact that they weren't interested in this type of game. They liked to invest their free time leveling alts, doing dailies, improving their character and personal economies (whereas I don't even have a single alt, don't have any professions, or any money. Just a single max level char where I log in once a week for 4 hours to clear Firelands. It's relaxing and super fun to raid with 10 good friends, but outside of that the game is all boring crap to me). Different passions and interests. Honestly there are so many games out there that many gamers have their special game which they play the most. However, one thing that gamers have in common is that they buy many games and play them once or twice. Ladder fear will cause some players to stop, but let's be honest here: you don't lose almost 50% of the player base to ladder fear. That is just stupid. It's like saying Oblivion lost 99% of its player base (there are the Oblivion hobbyists who spend most of the that time playing the game) because people were too scared to go in a dungeon. Even consider that there are people who didn't even finish the game and never went back to it. 1.1. The fact that SC2 has retained almost 50% of its player base after more than a year should be testament to how effin frikkin good this game is. Especially considering that it is a complex and deep RTS game centered around competitive play. I would bet that the biggest decline of active ladder players was during season one. Each consecutive season will lose less and less active members (and the later seasons primarily people with ladder fear, but I don't think most of them leave permanently). People who truly developed SC2 as their hobby will stay (some will play only on holidays, but always come back so one might expect a pattern of dipping during fall to spring), the people who leave permanently are just mainly people that lose interest in the game at different rates. 2. If you think that you are innately talented and intelligent and stuck in bronze because the game is so unbalanced I would think you are retarded. Sure any normal person can lie to themselves for a while (a few days) but the realization must hit them, it has to if they have a functional brain. To me the real fear in laddering is when you hit a certain point where the time you spend on the game reflects your skill level. You will plateau not because you hit your max skill ceiling but because you don't have the time to crunch in that extra time to raise it. At this point your win rate should be about 50%. No one likes to lose but is obvious that it is unavoidable. If you say that you feel not the slightest anxiety when you hit that "Find Game" button you are a liar. Yet people who want to improve or just keep playing do keep laddering because the reward and the awesome feeling of the prospect of winning is stronger than the anxiety of losing the game. For those that stop laddering their anxiety and fear of losing is greater, they begin to doubt themselves and their ability and the feeling of actually just losing (not how or why, just the negative feeling of it). In their mind, I would imagine, they are experiencing the prospect of a permanent loss streak (and everyone has experienced a loss streak and knows how bad that sinking feeling is, and a lot of us still keep hope and still keep in mind the fact that you can win). Unless the person enjoys tormenting himself he will stop playing for a while or forever because his subconsciousness will correlate the game with more negative feelings than positive ones. 3. No intelligent person ever starts anything and thinks they are good - note difference between people who think they are intelligent and people that are actually intelligent. I have never raged at a 1v1 loss (only at some stupid random team games  ). Everytime I lost I would watch the replay. In my mind blaming losses on something that you think is OP is retarded because by simply looking at how many people raged against me because they lost one would think every Protoss unit and strategy is OP and should be nerfed. Yes it would be easiest to blame their "OP" units and strat, but by just stepping back and analyzing your own thoughts and actions one should always logically come to the conclusion that one is over reacting. Even if their strategy or unit comp actually might be OP to a certain extent (what map it's on, spawn position, etc.) it is only logical to assume that even though your opponent might be at an advantage: his micro isn't perfect, his macro isn't perfect, his execution isn't perfect, his timing is not perfect, and his decisions aren't perfect. If you are truly better than your opponent in every aspect of the aforementioned then you must be able to beat him because your superior skill would close the advantage he has, and if you aren't you should strive to be better. Any player that is between bronze-masters and are being matched by mmr can ALWAYS find a way to beat ANY strategy and unit comp if they analyze their. You are not playing against MC, MVP, or Nestea. I can guarantee you that your opponent who beat you with the 6 gate is not even close to, by light years, how well MC does it. Just because he had 6 gates at about the same time and attacks at about the same time he will not have the same macro behind it, he will not have the same decision making behind it (what unit comp he warps, what he reinforces with, etc.), nor will he have the same micro and execution. Honestly there are so many holes in the quality of play from players bronze to masters that any strat can be picked apart if you dedicate to improve, especially in the scouting, decision making, and game awareness. I've beaten players who had better micro, macro, and apm than I did because they might scout my base and even see what tech I'm going AND STILL prepare wrong because they think, "Oh my probe revealed his base, OK good I scouted him". And likewise I have lost games in the same fashion. Let me explain a bit. This post is directed towards players who are looking to improve their starcraft and have ladder anxiety. Also people who perceive Koreans to innately better at starcraft. If you play one hour of starcraft a day or one hour a week, you can still take it with a fixed mindset or a growth mindset. Also I did not say that Ladder fear is the sole reason for why people were leaving the game. If you'd rather spend your time doing something other than starcraft there's obviously nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with being a casual player, but if you are indeed looking to improve at starcraft there is no reason to let your mindset keep you from that. Mindset is a complex and mostly a subconscious thing and its lot easier to lie to yourself than I could tell by your post. There is no logical reason to fear pressing the search button and play some ladder games ever, the entire point of my post was it is all in your head. It's really easy to lie to yourself and make excuses for why your not getting better and many people do it all the time. I agree with most of your post and good points sir! Also I understand this is very simplified, however it is simplified for understanding's sake, the reality of course is more complex. It would be unlikely for anyone to be fixed in all their ways and have no growth mindset. Be vigilant and search deep, within yourself. Your the hardest one to fool and the easiest one to fool yourself.
You are right that there is no logical reason to fear pressing the button if you want to improve. People who experience a lot of ladder fear/anxiety are people who probably have other stresses in their life that outweigh the stress of ladder fear. A student that loves to play SC2 and wants to play competitively and improve on the game doesn't only need to change their mindset. They have to also spend more time on the game working on it. You can do both, sure, but you will probably sacrifice some other aspect of your life. But how does ladder fear/stress depend on other areas of your life and why does experiencing stress playing to improve matter in other areas of your life? I don't claim to have the answer, but I would like to explain from my reasoning.
You have to consider that your cold logic doesn't apply to your whole all the time. A consciousness that rationalizes using logic always has an inner dialogue. With that said, there is also a logical reason from another part of your consciousness arguing why you wouldn't want to press that button, and it has nothing to do with if you want to improve it has to do with the part that seeks to maintain a good psychological mood. If a person is in a good mood they tend to perform better, experience life better, and generally begin things confidently. Maintaining a general good mood is something you are always striving for (hence the dangers of drug addiction from a psychological side) because it helps you.
There is no way you can ever think that losing anything doesn't matter, that's just lying to yourself and will hurt you more in the long run. It has to do about your stamina and ability to soak the feeling. A single loss doesn't hurt me. Heck if I play 20 games and have a 50% win rate I'm fine, it was a good day. But if losses start to become consecutive and persistent (aka loss streak) it does have an effect and if it's big enough (depending on how resilient you are) it will affect you eventually. This is an evolutionary trait that every human being has as a survival behavior mechanism and falsely triggers on events that actually have no bearing on your survival as a person. Now if your life was centered around SC2 and your lively hood depended on it (aka progamer) it would make you practice even harder. However, for the average Joe, the anxiety and stress caused by the fear is something he would like to avoid because the bad mood lingers and affects the areas of his life that do depend on his survival, mostly studies and job. For the average Joe SC2 is not a livelihood.
Additionally it is not just the fear of pressing the button. A person who experiences a lot of anxiety before pressing the button will most likely be the type of player that plays anxiously and fearful during the game. Playing over defensively and fearing that his opponent is doing something he is not prepared for. Playing a 15 minute game while being anxious, stressed, and paranoid to some extent makes one probably feel that they are not in control of the game and can lead to a lot of missed opportunities. Experiencing some or many loss streaks will compound the fear. If you want to improve you have to fight it with effort and it can take a lot of effort. Some people's drive to want to improve is greater than others'. I think everyone would like improve their game at SC2 (I would imagine that everyone reading TL does at least, and yet there is ladder fear) at some extent but the effort might be too much because of other stresses. If you can't maintain the effort by mass gaming, which is probably the most effective way of banishing the ladder fear, the fear will persist. You can't mass game if you only play once or twice a week for only a couple of hours. For those who want to improve and have a lot of free time I don't imagine that ladder fear is a problem for them. But for those that don't have the time....
Even though you can tell yourself that it's just a game another more primal part of you reacts to it as a potential danger that can diminish your performance in areas that are higher priority. Of course losing at SC2 won't make you lose your job but that part of your brain (or consciousness if you will) only receives the information (chemical/physical reaction) and feeling of loss and more importantly the fear of it. Fear is observable in nearly every animal because evolution selected it as a beneficial trait. Like it or not you are a physical being and you cannot directly control every cell in your body (it would be like taking a dose of heroin and refusing to get high because you can control your blood flow in your brain - not possible). And like it or not this "ladder fear" is not "ladder fear" to the part of you that processes fear. It's just fear. Fear can make you fight harder, but can also make you avoid unnecessary risks.
If that part of your inner dialogue becomes louder than your other conscious reasoning you will lose interest, you will want to avoid the risk. The tolerance for ladder fear, I think, is directly related to the sum of stress/fear already experienced in other areas of your life and the balance of it. To maintain a good mood you do a lot of things and one of them is to keep the amount of stress to a minimum. To some people the amount of stress received from "ladder fear" (really it's the fear of loss and has context in all aspects of your life) may seem like nothing because their life is relatively good at the moment. But say if you were a person that loves SC2 but have a ton of stress (exam, fear of losing job, hating your job, etc.) then that extra stress from laddering is not something that you instinctively welcome.
I'm not saying you cannot overcome the ladder fear. You are correct that you can change your behavior. It takes a lot of work though (you can never get rid of the fear, but you can suppress it). My argument is culminating to the assertion that stress levels vary in your life and from different aspects and person to person. Every average Joe has ladder fear. Some experience it very little and continue playing it season after season. However for some the threshold came during the first season, and for some the second, and etc. Perhaps when season three began Mr. Anonymous noticed that his grades were dropping causing a hike in stress and fear of failure.
Generally most people at this point will start playing less or completely stop, and if they do continue playing the game it will be for relaxation (customs and dicking around in team games). When you play SC2 with the mindset to improve one has to concentrate, take it seriously, and spend the time working on it. You can easily compare this to a person that loves his job. It might be challenging but fun at the same time, it's not relaxing however. This is why you can play custom games without getting tired, because they take no effort at all. But when you play four intense 1v1's with the intention of climbing the ladder and improving you will probably take a break (hence the importance of stamina, which is only developed through mass, mass gaming).
The average player will have other things to do during the day, even after work or school. If you work, then come home to practice and ladder seriously (which is working tbh) then do other chores you are not relaxing or resting. Thus if you already have enough stress or building stress you will start to resist (that other inner dialogue will get louder) until the fear/stress becomes undesirable. Now what will you avoid? Will you avoid your studies and job? Will you avoid maintaining your relationships to family, friends, and partners? Those things are more important to the average Joe and he will drop the stressful activity that can be avoided without causing the biggest risk to living a balanced life. Average Joe will stop playing ladder games to improve, but might still play customs or other games, but only to relax with. If you are unable to relax or rest during the day you are going to be one stressed out person.
All this being said how can one say that quitting because of ladder fear is based on dividing people into two groups or three or four? These generalization are exactly akin to horoscopes that also divide people into general groups. So general that it will ring true with a lot of people
So why do countries like Korea/Sweden dominate? It has to do with culture. How many people in the U.S.A. thought that they could become a progamer and earn money off of SC2 by playing competitively when they bought the game? Places like Korea and Sweden, to some extent have, accepted socially that progaming is a possible means of livelihood. Why did they develop like this? Well that would take another type of research to even begin to determine. I'm sure there are parents in Korea that encourage their children to become progamers if they see their child playing Starcraft or some other recognizable e-sport obsessively, after all e-sports are broadcast on TV there. If a parent in the U.S.A sees their child playing a game obsessively, well I don't need to tell you how often U.S. media blames games for their expanding degenerate youth. It doesn't even stop at parents, your friends may be completely non-supportive and the dialogue based against playing games, even as an adult.
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United Arab Emirates7 Posts
i believe that if we played the game on windowed mode instead of the fullscreen one might lessen our ladder fearness... because we would take it as a less serious thing
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Seems like the "fixed-mindset" is looked upon negatively... wonder what mindset the people who wrote that article consider themselves?
The stats you put in the OP are miss-labeled, and unformatted, would be nice to see something fact based, instead of a bunch of un-sourced numbers and a caption saying "this means I'm right".
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This article really helped me to understand myself. I often had no explanation for why I got frustrated when people criticized my play who were worse then me. Thinking about myself under a "fixed" mentality and wanting to get out of that... I think I prefer that to not knowing myself at all. Good post.
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Right now I'm stuck in a fixed mindset, Wanting to have a growth mindset as improvment is all I want but it just annoys me to lose. I've never had a problem with losing in games before untill I started Starcraft2 I sadly missed out on multiplayer Starcraft1 due to internet issues.
I strive to learn about the game and how to improve, but my biggest problem is I have no friends/clan mates to practice with. The only player that has given me critism about my play was I believe you. I met a guy in a 1v1 Obs game when I was low diamond his name was BugRancher a master Zerg, Added him played a couple games with him and his critism helped me improve my macro and move up into Master league. The only real players I have to practice with is a Diamond Toss. Good friend but it doesn't teach me much, But I enjoy helping him improve his PvZ. Makes me wish I had someone to do the same for me.
I believe you are the BugRancher I had added as someone changed their name to Eff0rt on my list. My ingame name is Dustin with the Kate Lockwell picture, Thanks for helping me improve :p. We should play a few games sometimes maybe this time I can beat you.
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I'll repeat what i said a page or two ago. The growth/fixed mindset doesn't explain everything and i feel that the 1vs1 drop in SC2 is mostly due to games nowadays being about community and the social aspect, something you don't really get in 1vs1.
Also there's the level of commitment and fun people are having. Some really love SC2 and some might find it average at best and that greatly affects the amount of time and practise spent on the game. This and the fact that there's just different types of people, some can grind endlessly, some grow tired quickly and some really want to mentally learn and develop within the game etc. Just splitting all this into two distinct groups is simplifying the problem.
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ladder fear is for people who take the game like its their life ( and for most people it is not their livelihood ) Sc2 is supposed to be fun and entertaining for the average player and that is how people should treat it- as entertainment. You do not have to be the best to have fun. I love watching tournaments for that higher skill level as well as the drama and excitement that happens at LANs.
Ladder fear/anxiety among other things is killing E-sports
This is false- the average ladder guy has no plans on ever becoming a professional player. The only thing killing e-sports is negative people and lazy pro-players- though i hate to say that some pro players are lazy as i do not actually know any of them personally.
Point is- ladder fear is for sissy's who care to much about winning
So to all those with ladder fear and the pro's with korean superiority complexes, get a growth mindset and go practice, alot. One day you may too have top 3 control in the world.
I agree with you completely here =]
Great Write up and very good read.
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On September 07 2011 18:07 mrRoflpwn wrote:ladder fear is for people who take the game like its their life ( and for most people it is not their livelihood ) Sc2 is supposed to be fun and entertaining for the average player and that is how people should treat it- as entertainment. You do not have to be the best to have fun. I love watching tournaments for that higher skill level as well as the drama and excitement that happens at LANs. This is false- the average ladder guy has no plans on ever becoming a professional player. The only thing killing e-sports is negative people and lazy pro-players- though i hate to say that some pro players are lazy as i do not actually know any of them personally. Point is- ladder fear is for sissy's who care to much about winning Show nested quote +So to all those with ladder fear and the pro's with korean superiority complexes, get a growth mindset and go practice, alot. One day you may too have top 3 control in the world. I agree with you completely here =] Great Write up and very good read.
I think someone could argue though that a strong ladder would allow more players to go pro, so more people laddering and getting better would be better for the scene as a whole and could build stronger competition higher up. This might be a utopian idea though, where everyone ladders to become a better player and strengthen themselves and the people around them.
Also, ladder fear is more about losing and anxiety than it is about taking the game "like its their life". Some people can have fun and mess around and other people have fun by being competitive and growing as a player.
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On September 07 2011 18:07 mrRoflpwn wrote:ladder fear is for people who take the game like its their life ( and for most people it is not their livelihood ) Sc2 is supposed to be fun and entertaining for the average player and that is how people should treat it- as entertainment. You do not have to be the best to have fun. I love watching tournaments for that higher skill level as well as the drama and excitement that happens at LANs. This is false- the average ladder guy has no plans on ever becoming a professional player. The only thing killing e-sports is negative people and lazy pro-players- though i hate to say that some pro players are lazy as i do not actually know any of them personally. Point is- ladder fear is for sissy's who care to much about winning Show nested quote +So to all those with ladder fear and the pro's with korean superiority complexes, get a growth mindset and go practice, alot. One day you may too have top 3 control in the world. I agree with you completely here =] Great Write up and very good read.
You'd be surprised how much people limit themselves even when it comes to little things. Honestly most of the people that take offence to this post, or seem to deny it are very fixed mindset people who are pulling lots of excuses out their ass. (not you, but people in general) Whether you play 10 hours a day or 30 minutes, there's no logical reason not to try and improve your game. It's also every healthy for the rest of your life to get in the habit of having a good work ethic when it comes to learning and growing. Just because you don't expect to become a pro player has nothing to do with your mindset towards improving, its just another excuse so you don't have to work at something. good points :D
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On September 07 2011 17:51 CatNzHat wrote:
Seems like the "fixed-mindset" is looked upon negatively... wonder what mindset the people who wrote that article consider themselves?
The stats you put in the OP are miss-labeled, and unformatted, would be nice to see something fact based, instead of a bunch of un-sourced numbers and a caption saying "this means I'm right".
just do some googling, I provided links and the book itself has clinical studies. How many TL post have proper formatting btw, lol. By the way doing an ad hominem attack on the people who wrote this article is indicative of a fixed mindset. If i had to guess, Id say you saw alot of yourself in the fixed mindset section and now to protect your pride your railing out against it. You dont have to have a fixed mindset forever, you can change. You got to be critical of yourself.
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good thread ^^ more gg more skill i am not scared of ladder i am yuma!!! fighting!!!
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Thanks.
Well it's time to fix my fixed mindset.
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EPT
