|
WTF is wrong with people these days?
I'm honestly sickened by people's reactions to the simple act of sharing money.
It's fucking money people, calm the fuck down, and let people do what they wish with it. Really, there is nothing similar at ALL between
"ok, if we meet in the finals, you WILL lose to me, and I WILL win"
and
"ok, if we happen to meet up in the finals, we play our best and we split the money fairly."
It's their money after they win it anyway....who the fuck are you to tell them who to use it?
People on the forums and their god damn entitlements.....where the fuck did you all come from?
|
On September 02 2011 14:00 MudkipSEA` wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:38 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:29 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:27 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:16 Arisen wrote:On September 02 2011 13:13 MudkipSEA` wrote:
Well, let's imagine this, if Nestea and MC were to be in the GSL finals, and they decided to split the money before hand. I'm sure people who pay to attend the event or to buy the stream tickets would be utterly disgusted. On a larger scale, "deal making" would definitely be amplified.
For eSports to grow, we cannot have this happening. eSports will never be taken seriously. This happens in real sports all the time. Good thing real sports never got taken seriously, then there might be groups of people killing other people over something that happened in a match of two people trying to kick a ball into a net. Well, I don't know what kind of sports you watch. But the point is it is not accepted by the community is it? Tell me how would people feel if all Federer and Nadal decided to split their earnings of all the Grand Slam finals they attended. Would they have this epic rivalry? The point I'm trying to make here is that how can we, as a community accept that they make deals before the tournament. they DEFINITELY would have this epic rivarly, their rivarly goes far beyond prize money No, I'm not implying that the prize money is the most important. BUT, to say that prize money is not one reason to justify their hard work is nonsensical. Then how would they learn a living? Read what I'm trying to notion, and don't pick a sentence out of the point I'm trying to make. Hypothetically, if deal making is the norm in eSports. As a progamer, I would make deals with everyone. And as a spectator/ aspiring player/ a commentator or anyone involved in that sport for that matter, would I be really interested in this sport if I know that they are not really putting in effort to become the best that they can? But rather, choose to earn as much money as possible while putting in the least effort that they need to? Edit: Grammar >< you realize you still have to put a shitton of effort to make it to the finals, and you also need a bit of luck, that said, once they get to the final, prize money gets big enough for most players that they both don't feel like gambling the difference between 1st and 2nd place, cuz really most of the time players in finals are very close in skill level and at this point it's almost only variance From what I'm implying, you're saying that playing in the finals is like gambling. Okie, let's not only talk about the finals then. I decide to make a deal with you on the first round, and you're a better player, loser gets no prize money. How bout that? My point is we, as a community, cannot support deal making. I'm ok with sharing prize money after the tourney, but not before. Edit: I'm not going to reply to you, as I am beating around the leafless bush.
well you seem to have missed the point anyway so see you dood
|
On September 02 2011 14:04 N3rV[Green] wrote:
WTF is wrong with people these days?
I'm honestly sickened by people's reactions to the simple act of sharing money.
It's fucking money people, calm the fuck down, and let people do what they wish with it. Really, there is nothing similar at ALL between
"ok, if we meet in the finals, you WILL lose to me, and I WILL win"
and
"ok, if we happen to meet up in the finals, we play our best and we split the money fairly."
It's their money after they win it anyway....who the fuck are you to tell them who to use it?
People on the forums and their god damn entitlements.....where the fuck did you all come from?
Unfortunately sharing doesn't always look so generous to everyone. It seems dangerous in my opinion.
|
On September 02 2011 14:00 MudkipSEA` wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:38 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:29 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:27 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:16 Arisen wrote:On September 02 2011 13:13 MudkipSEA` wrote:
Well, let's imagine this, if Nestea and MC were to be in the GSL finals, and they decided to split the money before hand. I'm sure people who pay to attend the event or to buy the stream tickets would be utterly disgusted. On a larger scale, "deal making" would definitely be amplified.
For eSports to grow, we cannot have this happening. eSports will never be taken seriously. This happens in real sports all the time. Good thing real sports never got taken seriously, then there might be groups of people killing other people over something that happened in a match of two people trying to kick a ball into a net. Well, I don't know what kind of sports you watch. But the point is it is not accepted by the community is it? Tell me how would people feel if all Federer and Nadal decided to split their earnings of all the Grand Slam finals they attended. Would they have this epic rivalry? The point I'm trying to make here is that how can we, as a community accept that they make deals before the tournament. they DEFINITELY would have this epic rivarly, their rivarly goes far beyond prize money No, I'm not implying that the prize money is the most important. BUT, to say that prize money is not one reason to justify their hard work is nonsensical. Then how would they learn a living? Read what I'm trying to notion, and don't pick a sentence out of the point I'm trying to make. Hypothetically, if deal making is the norm in eSports. As a progamer, I would make deals with everyone. And as a spectator/ aspiring player/ a commentator or anyone involved in that sport for that matter, would I be really interested in this sport if I know that they are not really putting in effort to become the best that they can? But rather, choose to earn as much money as possible while putting in the least effort that they need to? Edit: Grammar >< you realize you still have to put a shitton of effort to make it to the finals, and you also need a bit of luck, that said, once they get to the final, prize money gets big enough for most players that they both don't feel like gambling the difference between 1st and 2nd place, cuz really most of the time players in finals are very close in skill level and at this point it's almost only variance From what I'm implying, you're saying that playing in the finals is like gambling. Okie, let's not only talk about the finals then. I decide to make a deal with you on the first round, and you're a better player, loser gets no prize money. How bout that? My point is we, as a community, cannot support deal making. I'm ok with sharing prize money after the tourney, but not before. Edit: I'm not going to reply to you, as I am beating around the leafless bush.
why shouldn't a community support lowering the variance of prize distribution? it only helps the players support themselves, and if fayth is right that it's common i don't see anyone complaining about it lowering the quality of games
|
It does make sense when its between team mates. They help each other practice and often have the same goal. If relatively lower amounts went to the losing team mate, this could lead to bad team atmosphere, etc.
Between non-team members they should duke it all out, the stress from winning it all is part of what makes competition exciting.
|
On September 02 2011 14:08 benjammin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 14:00 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:38 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:29 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:27 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:16 Arisen wrote:On September 02 2011 13:13 MudkipSEA` wrote:
Well, let's imagine this, if Nestea and MC were to be in the GSL finals, and they decided to split the money before hand. I'm sure people who pay to attend the event or to buy the stream tickets would be utterly disgusted. On a larger scale, "deal making" would definitely be amplified.
For eSports to grow, we cannot have this happening. eSports will never be taken seriously. This happens in real sports all the time. Good thing real sports never got taken seriously, then there might be groups of people killing other people over something that happened in a match of two people trying to kick a ball into a net. Well, I don't know what kind of sports you watch. But the point is it is not accepted by the community is it? Tell me how would people feel if all Federer and Nadal decided to split their earnings of all the Grand Slam finals they attended. Would they have this epic rivalry? The point I'm trying to make here is that how can we, as a community accept that they make deals before the tournament. they DEFINITELY would have this epic rivarly, their rivarly goes far beyond prize money No, I'm not implying that the prize money is the most important. BUT, to say that prize money is not one reason to justify their hard work is nonsensical. Then how would they learn a living? Read what I'm trying to notion, and don't pick a sentence out of the point I'm trying to make. Hypothetically, if deal making is the norm in eSports. As a progamer, I would make deals with everyone. And as a spectator/ aspiring player/ a commentator or anyone involved in that sport for that matter, would I be really interested in this sport if I know that they are not really putting in effort to become the best that they can? But rather, choose to earn as much money as possible while putting in the least effort that they need to? Edit: Grammar >< you realize you still have to put a shitton of effort to make it to the finals, and you also need a bit of luck, that said, once they get to the final, prize money gets big enough for most players that they both don't feel like gambling the difference between 1st and 2nd place, cuz really most of the time players in finals are very close in skill level and at this point it's almost only variance From what I'm implying, you're saying that playing in the finals is like gambling. Okie, let's not only talk about the finals then. I decide to make a deal with you on the first round, and you're a better player, loser gets no prize money. How bout that? My point is we, as a community, cannot support deal making. I'm ok with sharing prize money after the tourney, but not before. Edit: I'm not going to reply to you, as I am beating around the leafless bush. why shouldn't a community support lowering the variance of prize distribution? it only helps the players support themselves, and if fayth is right that it's common i don't see anyone complaining about it lowering the quality of games
I do support the lowering of the prize variance, if done at an official level. I don't support it if it is some shady under the table deal out of the public eye between individuals before the matches occur, because it can result in issues like this Fenix / TT1 example.
|
On September 02 2011 14:08 benjammin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 14:00 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:38 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:29 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:27 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:16 Arisen wrote:On September 02 2011 13:13 MudkipSEA` wrote:
Well, let's imagine this, if Nestea and MC were to be in the GSL finals, and they decided to split the money before hand. I'm sure people who pay to attend the event or to buy the stream tickets would be utterly disgusted. On a larger scale, "deal making" would definitely be amplified.
For eSports to grow, we cannot have this happening. eSports will never be taken seriously. This happens in real sports all the time. Good thing real sports never got taken seriously, then there might be groups of people killing other people over something that happened in a match of two people trying to kick a ball into a net. Well, I don't know what kind of sports you watch. But the point is it is not accepted by the community is it? Tell me how would people feel if all Federer and Nadal decided to split their earnings of all the Grand Slam finals they attended. Would they have this epic rivalry? The point I'm trying to make here is that how can we, as a community accept that they make deals before the tournament. they DEFINITELY would have this epic rivarly, their rivarly goes far beyond prize money No, I'm not implying that the prize money is the most important. BUT, to say that prize money is not one reason to justify their hard work is nonsensical. Then how would they learn a living? Read what I'm trying to notion, and don't pick a sentence out of the point I'm trying to make. Hypothetically, if deal making is the norm in eSports. As a progamer, I would make deals with everyone. And as a spectator/ aspiring player/ a commentator or anyone involved in that sport for that matter, would I be really interested in this sport if I know that they are not really putting in effort to become the best that they can? But rather, choose to earn as much money as possible while putting in the least effort that they need to? Edit: Grammar >< you realize you still have to put a shitton of effort to make it to the finals, and you also need a bit of luck, that said, once they get to the final, prize money gets big enough for most players that they both don't feel like gambling the difference between 1st and 2nd place, cuz really most of the time players in finals are very close in skill level and at this point it's almost only variance From what I'm implying, you're saying that playing in the finals is like gambling. Okie, let's not only talk about the finals then. I decide to make a deal with you on the first round, and you're a better player, loser gets no prize money. How bout that? My point is we, as a community, cannot support deal making. I'm ok with sharing prize money after the tourney, but not before. Edit: I'm not going to reply to you, as I am beating around the leafless bush. why shouldn't a community support lowering the variance of prize distribution? it only helps the players support themselves, and if fayth is right that it's common i don't see anyone complaining about it lowering the quality of games
Let's have all tournament organizers band together to provide equal salary to all players and abolish prize winnings for tournaments, then.
|
If players can't disclose the deal to the tournament and sponsors, then it's not right, and they know it. Pretty simple.
So, when I first got to the thread, I wasn't assuming teammates. How often does this occur between non-teammates ?
|
On September 02 2011 14:12 enzym wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 14:08 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:00 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:38 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:29 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:27 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:16 Arisen wrote:On September 02 2011 13:13 MudkipSEA` wrote:
Well, let's imagine this, if Nestea and MC were to be in the GSL finals, and they decided to split the money before hand. I'm sure people who pay to attend the event or to buy the stream tickets would be utterly disgusted. On a larger scale, "deal making" would definitely be amplified.
For eSports to grow, we cannot have this happening. eSports will never be taken seriously. This happens in real sports all the time. Good thing real sports never got taken seriously, then there might be groups of people killing other people over something that happened in a match of two people trying to kick a ball into a net. Well, I don't know what kind of sports you watch. But the point is it is not accepted by the community is it? Tell me how would people feel if all Federer and Nadal decided to split their earnings of all the Grand Slam finals they attended. Would they have this epic rivalry? The point I'm trying to make here is that how can we, as a community accept that they make deals before the tournament. they DEFINITELY would have this epic rivarly, their rivarly goes far beyond prize money No, I'm not implying that the prize money is the most important. BUT, to say that prize money is not one reason to justify their hard work is nonsensical. Then how would they learn a living? Read what I'm trying to notion, and don't pick a sentence out of the point I'm trying to make. Hypothetically, if deal making is the norm in eSports. As a progamer, I would make deals with everyone. And as a spectator/ aspiring player/ a commentator or anyone involved in that sport for that matter, would I be really interested in this sport if I know that they are not really putting in effort to become the best that they can? But rather, choose to earn as much money as possible while putting in the least effort that they need to? Edit: Grammar >< you realize you still have to put a shitton of effort to make it to the finals, and you also need a bit of luck, that said, once they get to the final, prize money gets big enough for most players that they both don't feel like gambling the difference between 1st and 2nd place, cuz really most of the time players in finals are very close in skill level and at this point it's almost only variance From what I'm implying, you're saying that playing in the finals is like gambling. Okie, let's not only talk about the finals then. I decide to make a deal with you on the first round, and you're a better player, loser gets no prize money. How bout that? My point is we, as a community, cannot support deal making. I'm ok with sharing prize money after the tourney, but not before. Edit: I'm not going to reply to you, as I am beating around the leafless bush. why shouldn't a community support lowering the variance of prize distribution? it only helps the players support themselves, and if fayth is right that it's common i don't see anyone complaining about it lowering the quality of games Let's have all tournament organizers band together to provide equal salary to all players and abolish prize winnings for tournaments, then.
Nice strawman
|
On September 02 2011 14:11 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 14:08 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:00 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:38 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:29 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:27 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:16 Arisen wrote:On September 02 2011 13:13 MudkipSEA` wrote:
Well, let's imagine this, if Nestea and MC were to be in the GSL finals, and they decided to split the money before hand. I'm sure people who pay to attend the event or to buy the stream tickets would be utterly disgusted. On a larger scale, "deal making" would definitely be amplified.
For eSports to grow, we cannot have this happening. eSports will never be taken seriously. This happens in real sports all the time. Good thing real sports never got taken seriously, then there might be groups of people killing other people over something that happened in a match of two people trying to kick a ball into a net. Well, I don't know what kind of sports you watch. But the point is it is not accepted by the community is it? Tell me how would people feel if all Federer and Nadal decided to split their earnings of all the Grand Slam finals they attended. Would they have this epic rivalry? The point I'm trying to make here is that how can we, as a community accept that they make deals before the tournament. they DEFINITELY would have this epic rivarly, their rivarly goes far beyond prize money No, I'm not implying that the prize money is the most important. BUT, to say that prize money is not one reason to justify their hard work is nonsensical. Then how would they learn a living? Read what I'm trying to notion, and don't pick a sentence out of the point I'm trying to make. Hypothetically, if deal making is the norm in eSports. As a progamer, I would make deals with everyone. And as a spectator/ aspiring player/ a commentator or anyone involved in that sport for that matter, would I be really interested in this sport if I know that they are not really putting in effort to become the best that they can? But rather, choose to earn as much money as possible while putting in the least effort that they need to? Edit: Grammar >< you realize you still have to put a shitton of effort to make it to the finals, and you also need a bit of luck, that said, once they get to the final, prize money gets big enough for most players that they both don't feel like gambling the difference between 1st and 2nd place, cuz really most of the time players in finals are very close in skill level and at this point it's almost only variance From what I'm implying, you're saying that playing in the finals is like gambling. Okie, let's not only talk about the finals then. I decide to make a deal with you on the first round, and you're a better player, loser gets no prize money. How bout that? My point is we, as a community, cannot support deal making. I'm ok with sharing prize money after the tourney, but not before. Edit: I'm not going to reply to you, as I am beating around the leafless bush. why shouldn't a community support lowering the variance of prize distribution? it only helps the players support themselves, and if fayth is right that it's common i don't see anyone complaining about it lowering the quality of games I do support the lowering of the prize variance, if done at an official level. I don't support it if it is some shady under the table deal out of the public eye between individuals before the matches occur, because it can result in issues like this Fenix / TT1 example.
what's the bigger issue here: the nature of how deals or made or fenix allegedly being a scumbag? would you make this "shady under the table deal" with sheth?
|
Just look from a spectator point of view. A championship game has a significant weigh in the whole tournament. This is the pay off, the game we as spectator watched a whole tournament for. And having two players fixing the match ruins the whole experience for us. And to make a excuse of saying "well everyone else is doing it also" it's just shitty way of justifying your wrong. I don't care how you techinquliy you define "match fixing," in my book, the straight plain definition is the right definition. Doesn't matter if it's money involved, or nothing at all, it's still wrong.
|
can we be happy for fenix and not shit on his reputation? super fucking bm and unprofessional from tt1 to put this in public eyes. as fayth says this isnt meant for spectators because no doubt theres a lot of things behind the scenes that would make you dislike a lot of the progamers. but the day IM recruits fenix, tt1 does this? in a couple months if it was released it wouldn't be so bad but this is shitting on him hardcore on a big and happy day for him
|
On September 02 2011 14:13 morshed11218 wrote:
Just look from a spectator point of view. A championship game has a significant weigh in the whole tournament. This is the pay off, the game we as spectator watched a whole tournament for. And having two players fixing the match ruins the whole experience for us. And to make a excuse of saying "well everyone else is doing it also" it's just shitty way of justifying your wrong. I don't care how you techinquliy you define "match fixing," in my book, the straight plain definition is the right definition. Doesn't matter if it's money involved, or nothing at all, it's still wrong.
but the match isn't fixed. no one is purposely losing games, all that is altered is the prize money distributed. there are always going to be significant external benefits to winning a major tournament, so there is always incentive for performance
|
On September 02 2011 14:12 enzym wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 14:08 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:00 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:38 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:29 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:27 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:16 Arisen wrote:On September 02 2011 13:13 MudkipSEA` wrote:
Well, let's imagine this, if Nestea and MC were to be in the GSL finals, and they decided to split the money before hand. I'm sure people who pay to attend the event or to buy the stream tickets would be utterly disgusted. On a larger scale, "deal making" would definitely be amplified.
For eSports to grow, we cannot have this happening. eSports will never be taken seriously. This happens in real sports all the time. Good thing real sports never got taken seriously, then there might be groups of people killing other people over something that happened in a match of two people trying to kick a ball into a net. Well, I don't know what kind of sports you watch. But the point is it is not accepted by the community is it? Tell me how would people feel if all Federer and Nadal decided to split their earnings of all the Grand Slam finals they attended. Would they have this epic rivalry? The point I'm trying to make here is that how can we, as a community accept that they make deals before the tournament. they DEFINITELY would have this epic rivarly, their rivarly goes far beyond prize money No, I'm not implying that the prize money is the most important. BUT, to say that prize money is not one reason to justify their hard work is nonsensical. Then how would they learn a living? Read what I'm trying to notion, and don't pick a sentence out of the point I'm trying to make. Hypothetically, if deal making is the norm in eSports. As a progamer, I would make deals with everyone. And as a spectator/ aspiring player/ a commentator or anyone involved in that sport for that matter, would I be really interested in this sport if I know that they are not really putting in effort to become the best that they can? But rather, choose to earn as much money as possible while putting in the least effort that they need to? Edit: Grammar >< you realize you still have to put a shitton of effort to make it to the finals, and you also need a bit of luck, that said, once they get to the final, prize money gets big enough for most players that they both don't feel like gambling the difference between 1st and 2nd place, cuz really most of the time players in finals are very close in skill level and at this point it's almost only variance From what I'm implying, you're saying that playing in the finals is like gambling. Okie, let's not only talk about the finals then. I decide to make a deal with you on the first round, and you're a better player, loser gets no prize money. How bout that? My point is we, as a community, cannot support deal making. I'm ok with sharing prize money after the tourney, but not before. Edit: I'm not going to reply to you, as I am beating around the leafless bush. why shouldn't a community support lowering the variance of prize distribution? it only helps the players support themselves, and if fayth is right that it's common i don't see anyone complaining about it lowering the quality of games Let's have all tournament organizers band together to provide equal salary to all players and abolish prize winnings for tournaments, then.
jesus christ you totally missed the point, this mainly happens between teammates/friends
|
United States996 Posts
late to the thread t.t
deals like this produce different games than would otherwise be played. also as an observer finals become much less interesting when the pressure on the players is gone.
also a lesser but still important idea is if this is somehow ok to do in the finals with 2 people, why is it not ok to do in the semis with 4 or quarters with 8?
i dont see how this could possibly be considered ok
|
On September 02 2011 07:49 bkrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 07:41 x6Paramore wrote:
i deal make all the time in local LAN tournaments that include cash..
my room mate and i are of almost equal skill, depending on the day of the week. do i want to create a competitive environment between myself and him? absolutely not. are we the top 2 players in that tournament? probably we are.
when we get to the finals and its me vs him, we just say, hey, lets just split the money and have a good time. nobody is out to get first place, so whoever wins our 6 pool vs 6 pool can take the pride as long as the profits are equally split.
what 1st place and 2nd place talk about, what they do with their money, and how they play the match out, is really none of your fucking business. ^_^ cheers.
edit: for anyone saying that it diminishes the competitive level, get over it, we worked hard enough to be #1 and #2. we don't need that extra inch to ruin friendships and prevent it from being fun for however i enjoy handling the situation. While that sounds just lovely for a local LAN tournament that has no implications for anyone - sure i couldn't care less. But when you realise that SC2 isn't just about you and your roommate, or how "hard" you may have worked to get to the finals, you'll see that it does matter. The only reason you are getting paid to play a computer game is because of the thousands of fans the generous sponsors. If they knew you had decided to split the money and weren't going to play properly, i imagine the tournament organisers would be pretty mad as would the fans and the sponsors. The example in the OP lead to a 1 base carrier rush and your example included 6 pool vs 6 pool - you have effectively destroyed the finals for everyone watching. Can you imagine something like for Mvp vs CoCa at MLG? Maybe you should think a little bit less about yourself and a little bit more about the community.
actually from a free-will point of view, i still don't see a problem with it since its their choice. dont like it? get good and deal-makers out of the final round.. if they can get there, they deserve to do whatever they want... maybe you should review the implications of messing with free will and what it takes to earn it...
my lan experience was a small example that applies to everything else... you good enough to get #1 and #2, you can do whatever you want, regardless of the impact on the entertainment value. if you don't like it, get good and beat out #1 and #2. don't make this about your entertainment, this is about what you are allowed to do. there should be restrictions on the restrictions if anything.
|
On September 02 2011 14:08 benjammin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 14:00 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:38 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:29 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:27 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:16 Arisen wrote:On September 02 2011 13:13 MudkipSEA` wrote:
Well, let's imagine this, if Nestea and MC were to be in the GSL finals, and they decided to split the money before hand. I'm sure people who pay to attend the event or to buy the stream tickets would be utterly disgusted. On a larger scale, "deal making" would definitely be amplified.
For eSports to grow, we cannot have this happening. eSports will never be taken seriously. This happens in real sports all the time. Good thing real sports never got taken seriously, then there might be groups of people killing other people over something that happened in a match of two people trying to kick a ball into a net. Well, I don't know what kind of sports you watch. But the point is it is not accepted by the community is it? Tell me how would people feel if all Federer and Nadal decided to split their earnings of all the Grand Slam finals they attended. Would they have this epic rivalry? The point I'm trying to make here is that how can we, as a community accept that they make deals before the tournament. they DEFINITELY would have this epic rivarly, their rivarly goes far beyond prize money No, I'm not implying that the prize money is the most important. BUT, to say that prize money is not one reason to justify their hard work is nonsensical. Then how would they learn a living? Read what I'm trying to notion, and don't pick a sentence out of the point I'm trying to make. Hypothetically, if deal making is the norm in eSports. As a progamer, I would make deals with everyone. And as a spectator/ aspiring player/ a commentator or anyone involved in that sport for that matter, would I be really interested in this sport if I know that they are not really putting in effort to become the best that they can? But rather, choose to earn as much money as possible while putting in the least effort that they need to? Edit: Grammar >< you realize you still have to put a shitton of effort to make it to the finals, and you also need a bit of luck, that said, once they get to the final, prize money gets big enough for most players that they both don't feel like gambling the difference between 1st and 2nd place, cuz really most of the time players in finals are very close in skill level and at this point it's almost only variance From what I'm implying, you're saying that playing in the finals is like gambling. Okie, let's not only talk about the finals then. I decide to make a deal with you on the first round, and you're a better player, loser gets no prize money. How bout that? My point is we, as a community, cannot support deal making. I'm ok with sharing prize money after the tourney, but not before. Edit: I'm not going to reply to you, as I am beating around the leafless bush. why shouldn't a community support lowering the variance of prize distribution? it only helps the players support themselves, and if fayth is right that it's common i don't see anyone complaining about it lowering the quality of games
I wouldn't mind lowering the variance of prize distribution. Adding to that, I think it is great that players should be compensated for putting their effort.
But, my problem is deal making in itself. If we, accept it, as a spectator sport, I am afraid that the players themselves would get the green light to go full throttle on this and match fix. Which becomes a greater problem.
It would really be hard for us, as spectators to know whether it is deal making or match fixing.
Edit: Sorry my bad, I meant lowering the variance via official means.
|
On September 02 2011 14:13 Emporio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 14:12 enzym wrote:On September 02 2011 14:08 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:00 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:38 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:29 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:27 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:16 Arisen wrote:On September 02 2011 13:13 MudkipSEA` wrote:
Well, let's imagine this, if Nestea and MC were to be in the GSL finals, and they decided to split the money before hand. I'm sure people who pay to attend the event or to buy the stream tickets would be utterly disgusted. On a larger scale, "deal making" would definitely be amplified.
For eSports to grow, we cannot have this happening. eSports will never be taken seriously. This happens in real sports all the time. Good thing real sports never got taken seriously, then there might be groups of people killing other people over something that happened in a match of two people trying to kick a ball into a net. Well, I don't know what kind of sports you watch. But the point is it is not accepted by the community is it? Tell me how would people feel if all Federer and Nadal decided to split their earnings of all the Grand Slam finals they attended. Would they have this epic rivalry? The point I'm trying to make here is that how can we, as a community accept that they make deals before the tournament. they DEFINITELY would have this epic rivarly, their rivarly goes far beyond prize money No, I'm not implying that the prize money is the most important. BUT, to say that prize money is not one reason to justify their hard work is nonsensical. Then how would they learn a living? Read what I'm trying to notion, and don't pick a sentence out of the point I'm trying to make. Hypothetically, if deal making is the norm in eSports. As a progamer, I would make deals with everyone. And as a spectator/ aspiring player/ a commentator or anyone involved in that sport for that matter, would I be really interested in this sport if I know that they are not really putting in effort to become the best that they can? But rather, choose to earn as much money as possible while putting in the least effort that they need to? Edit: Grammar >< you realize you still have to put a shitton of effort to make it to the finals, and you also need a bit of luck, that said, once they get to the final, prize money gets big enough for most players that they both don't feel like gambling the difference between 1st and 2nd place, cuz really most of the time players in finals are very close in skill level and at this point it's almost only variance From what I'm implying, you're saying that playing in the finals is like gambling. Okie, let's not only talk about the finals then. I decide to make a deal with you on the first round, and you're a better player, loser gets no prize money. How bout that? My point is we, as a community, cannot support deal making. I'm ok with sharing prize money after the tourney, but not before. Edit: I'm not going to reply to you, as I am beating around the leafless bush. why shouldn't a community support lowering the variance of prize distribution? it only helps the players support themselves, and if fayth is right that it's common i don't see anyone complaining about it lowering the quality of games Let's have all tournament organizers band together to provide equal salary to all players and abolish prize winnings for tournaments, then. Nice strawman
How is that a strawman? I took his argument in favor of sharing and scaled it up in order to make him assume the opposite perspective. Either he agrees to this "strawman" and his previous position or he must point out, and thereby realize, why sharing is bad and unequal distribution as is common in most tournaments is good.
|
On September 02 2011 14:15 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 14:12 enzym wrote:On September 02 2011 14:08 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:00 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:38 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:29 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:27 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:16 Arisen wrote:On September 02 2011 13:13 MudkipSEA` wrote:
Well, let's imagine this, if Nestea and MC were to be in the GSL finals, and they decided to split the money before hand. I'm sure people who pay to attend the event or to buy the stream tickets would be utterly disgusted. On a larger scale, "deal making" would definitely be amplified.
For eSports to grow, we cannot have this happening. eSports will never be taken seriously. This happens in real sports all the time. Good thing real sports never got taken seriously, then there might be groups of people killing other people over something that happened in a match of two people trying to kick a ball into a net. Well, I don't know what kind of sports you watch. But the point is it is not accepted by the community is it? Tell me how would people feel if all Federer and Nadal decided to split their earnings of all the Grand Slam finals they attended. Would they have this epic rivalry? The point I'm trying to make here is that how can we, as a community accept that they make deals before the tournament. they DEFINITELY would have this epic rivarly, their rivarly goes far beyond prize money No, I'm not implying that the prize money is the most important. BUT, to say that prize money is not one reason to justify their hard work is nonsensical. Then how would they learn a living? Read what I'm trying to notion, and don't pick a sentence out of the point I'm trying to make. Hypothetically, if deal making is the norm in eSports. As a progamer, I would make deals with everyone. And as a spectator/ aspiring player/ a commentator or anyone involved in that sport for that matter, would I be really interested in this sport if I know that they are not really putting in effort to become the best that they can? But rather, choose to earn as much money as possible while putting in the least effort that they need to? Edit: Grammar >< you realize you still have to put a shitton of effort to make it to the finals, and you also need a bit of luck, that said, once they get to the final, prize money gets big enough for most players that they both don't feel like gambling the difference between 1st and 2nd place, cuz really most of the time players in finals are very close in skill level and at this point it's almost only variance From what I'm implying, you're saying that playing in the finals is like gambling. Okie, let's not only talk about the finals then. I decide to make a deal with you on the first round, and you're a better player, loser gets no prize money. How bout that? My point is we, as a community, cannot support deal making. I'm ok with sharing prize money after the tourney, but not before. Edit: I'm not going to reply to you, as I am beating around the leafless bush. why shouldn't a community support lowering the variance of prize distribution? it only helps the players support themselves, and if fayth is right that it's common i don't see anyone complaining about it lowering the quality of games Let's have all tournament organizers band together to provide equal salary to all players and abolish prize winnings for tournaments, then. jesus christ you totally missed the point, this mainly happens between teammates/friends
So it is okay to cheapen the tournament if it is between friends, but not between other players? I fail to see the significance of it being between friends here.
|
On September 02 2011 14:13 benjammin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 14:11 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 14:08 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:00 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:38 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:29 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 13:27 MudkipSEA` wrote:On September 02 2011 13:16 Arisen wrote:On September 02 2011 13:13 MudkipSEA` wrote:
Well, let's imagine this, if Nestea and MC were to be in the GSL finals, and they decided to split the money before hand. I'm sure people who pay to attend the event or to buy the stream tickets would be utterly disgusted. On a larger scale, "deal making" would definitely be amplified.
For eSports to grow, we cannot have this happening. eSports will never be taken seriously. This happens in real sports all the time. Good thing real sports never got taken seriously, then there might be groups of people killing other people over something that happened in a match of two people trying to kick a ball into a net. Well, I don't know what kind of sports you watch. But the point is it is not accepted by the community is it? Tell me how would people feel if all Federer and Nadal decided to split their earnings of all the Grand Slam finals they attended. Would they have this epic rivalry? The point I'm trying to make here is that how can we, as a community accept that they make deals before the tournament. they DEFINITELY would have this epic rivarly, their rivarly goes far beyond prize money No, I'm not implying that the prize money is the most important. BUT, to say that prize money is not one reason to justify their hard work is nonsensical. Then how would they learn a living? Read what I'm trying to notion, and don't pick a sentence out of the point I'm trying to make. Hypothetically, if deal making is the norm in eSports. As a progamer, I would make deals with everyone. And as a spectator/ aspiring player/ a commentator or anyone involved in that sport for that matter, would I be really interested in this sport if I know that they are not really putting in effort to become the best that they can? But rather, choose to earn as much money as possible while putting in the least effort that they need to? Edit: Grammar >< you realize you still have to put a shitton of effort to make it to the finals, and you also need a bit of luck, that said, once they get to the final, prize money gets big enough for most players that they both don't feel like gambling the difference between 1st and 2nd place, cuz really most of the time players in finals are very close in skill level and at this point it's almost only variance From what I'm implying, you're saying that playing in the finals is like gambling. Okie, let's not only talk about the finals then. I decide to make a deal with you on the first round, and you're a better player, loser gets no prize money. How bout that? My point is we, as a community, cannot support deal making. I'm ok with sharing prize money after the tourney, but not before. Edit: I'm not going to reply to you, as I am beating around the leafless bush. why shouldn't a community support lowering the variance of prize distribution? it only helps the players support themselves, and if fayth is right that it's common i don't see anyone complaining about it lowering the quality of games I do support the lowering of the prize variance, if done at an official level. I don't support it if it is some shady under the table deal out of the public eye between individuals before the matches occur, because it can result in issues like this Fenix / TT1 example. what's the bigger issue here: the nature of how deals or made or fenix allegedly being a scumbag? would you make this "shady under the table deal" with sheth?
The nature of how the deals are made resulted in the alleged actions.
If either tournaments distributed prizes more evenly or deals like this were made more public then this wouldn't be happening. And no, I wouldn't make that deal with Sheth if I were a pro gamer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
