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The Infestor: An Honest Discussion - Page 8

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Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
August 25 2011 01:15 GMT
#141
On August 25 2011 10:15 justinpal wrote:
Show nested quote +
Fungal growth prevents units from being loaded into a dropship of any type.


This isn't true at all.


I welcome a replay or VOD to disprove it. I will gladly edit my OP in the case that I have made an error.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
VectorCereal
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada54 Posts
August 25 2011 01:16 GMT
#142
On August 25 2011 10:14 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 10:11 VectorCereal wrote:
On August 25 2011 10:08 ReignFayth wrote:
On August 25 2011 10:07 VectorCereal wrote:
On August 25 2011 10:02 akalarry wrote:
On August 25 2011 10:00 VectorCereal wrote:
On August 25 2011 09:55 NATO wrote:
The problem with infestors (other than simply being too good) is that there is no way for the opponent to use their skill to reduce/overcome the spells of the infestors. Bascially it's all up to if the zerg player is good enough to get the spell off - once that happens there is nothing to do.

Even storms can be dodged to some degree.


You can't spread your units out? Sentries are spread against ghosts, why can't people do the same against fungals? Of course doing that wouldn't overcome any part of fungal..right?

Also OP you forgot to mention that infested terrans take time to spawn rendering them much less effective than what is implied.


On August 25 2011 09:52 akalarry wrote:
the only thing i dont like about infestors is how easily they can take out a base. the main problem is burrow movement. it's ridiculously hard to see them coming unless you have a random turret, cannon, or overseer far away from your base scouts it.


Two words.
Dark Templar


lol. dt is the worst possible comparison. useless in an actual battle, only thing it can do is snipe bases/workers. infestors can do that AND be the most important unit in an actual battle. also killing 5 dts is easier than killing 35 infested terrans. the most important thing is that you get infestors anyway because it's used in an actual fight. a byproduct is that it can tear down a base at will.

now if a dt could also fungal then we'd be talking


I see you didn't watch MC vs Idra when MC had a DT hitting each hydra once to maximize DPS. Also killing 35 infested terrans takes 1 storm if they are clumped up. All of your argument is situational. Why don't you have cannons at your expos to stop infested terrans? What stops mutas from wrecking you then? By your logic mutalisks are equally as imbalanced because they help in army fights and can take out bases!

The comparison was based on what you said. A unit that kills bases effectively. By comparing to the DT I pointed out how easy it is to stop them from killing bases.

cannons don't stop infested terran unless you have 10 cannons around each nexus


10 cannons is a blatant lie. Maybe if I'm sending in 6-7 infestors which is an investment worthy of taking an expansion (see marauder drops). The normal 4 infestors that are used can be stopped easily with well placed cannons, much fewer than 10 at that.
clearly u havent played pvz against abusers


I have but I also know you're someone who is quite biased in their opinion of infestors so to prevent any derail this will have to end here.
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
August 25 2011 01:17 GMT
#143
HOLY SHIT GUYS
PATCH 1.4
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
StaplerPhone
Profile Joined March 2011
United States813 Posts
August 25 2011 01:18 GMT
#144
I think it'd be nice if you had to research fungal, and maybe change it so it lasts say 6 seconds (so it actually "holds," 4 seconds is nothing in blizzard time) with (slightly) lower DPS for the entire duration.
NaDa | MC | HerO | DeMusliM | TaeJa | viOLet
Sporadic44
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States533 Posts
August 25 2011 01:18 GMT
#145
While admittedly infestors have a higher potential of usefulness over HT's and ghosts, protoss and terran's respective casters completely shut down infestors when used correctly. Also the defensive capability of the infestor is virtually non existent save for borrow.

Furthermore, any sort of infestor play can go to shit rather quickly, as we've all seen. The OP is true, Infestors have the highest potential for melting face in the zerg arsenal, and arguably in the game, they're far from overpowered. In my opinion.
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."
LolitsPing
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States285 Posts
August 25 2011 01:18 GMT
#146
I think that Blizzard needs to do this...

Nerf Infested Terrans. Increase the energy requirement or lower the dps.
AND
Buff Zerglings and lower Roach supply. Zerg is way too fragile in the early game and way too cost-ineffective.
OR
Add some sort of "siege" unit. It's not an offensive but a defensive siege, something that fulfilled the role of Lurker.

We're going to see something similar to "lurker" in HOTS but I believe that Option #1 is easier to implement.

P.S. I'm a zerg player. No shit there's going to be bias.
Citius, Altius, Fortius
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
August 25 2011 01:18 GMT
#147
On August 25 2011 10:15 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 09:58 ReignFayth wrote:
On August 25 2011 09:56 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
On August 25 2011 09:07 Whitewing wrote:
Infested terran is probably too strong a spell as is, if you sneak a couple infestors into a base an spam them while forces are out of position, you'll take down command centers. Dealing with them without AoE is pretty much impossible for protoss, and thrown into big engagements they can do absurd amounts of damage while soaking hits.

I have no issue with fungal growth or neural parasite though.

... That's like saying DT's sneaking into zerg's base and killing a hatchery = too strong

if DTs could cast storm

I'd def think it's too strong

DT's can also morph into a pretty good unit called an Archon.. just saying.

Or you can drop 2 DT's and 2 HT's and it will function similarly to 4 infestors.

And yes, I know they don't function completely the same given different scenarios. Just making the point that not all units are the same. Can Infestors be permanently cloaked and go around 1-shotting workers? No. Imagine an Infestor that can fungal+attack/1shot workers while burowed and a DT that can cloak/1shot workers + have the ability to storm everything. Both would be "OP".

as previously mentionned, infestors are a lot more versatile than DTs you can't compare both, at all, you don't see anyone sitting there with 20 DTs and cannons until they tech to carriers
StaplerPhone
Profile Joined March 2011
United States813 Posts
August 25 2011 01:19 GMT
#148
On August 25 2011 10:17 Chargelot wrote:
HOLY SHIT GUYS
PATCH 1.4

BLIZZARD WORKS FAST, GOOD JOB
NaDa | MC | HerO | DeMusliM | TaeJa | viOLet
UniversalMind
Profile Joined March 2011
United States326 Posts
August 25 2011 01:20 GMT
#149
On August 25 2011 10:12 CAPSLOCKED wrote:
It only feels right that spell-casters have the potential to change games like they do. However, personally, I feel the investment should be higher ;P

Remove +Energy Upgrade and require Fungal to be researched, do the same for EMP, and repeat again for Feedback.


that would be rather silly if you consider that both ghost and infestors have long build times
seoulsun
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands80 Posts
August 25 2011 01:20 GMT
#150
On August 25 2011 10:18 StaplerPhone wrote:
I think it'd be nice if you had to research fungal, and maybe change it so it lasts say 6 seconds (so it actually "holds," 4 seconds is nothing in blizzard time) with (slightly) lower DPS for the entire duration.


No, most of the time as zerg you will need to have fungal out right away. We can have fungal growth resarchable IF pathogen glands don't need to be reserched and infestors start enough energy to cast FG right away.
o/
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
August 25 2011 01:20 GMT
#151
yay infestor nerf :D
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
August 25 2011 01:20 GMT
#152
On August 25 2011 10:19 StaplerPhone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 10:17 Chargelot wrote:
HOLY SHIT GUYS
PATCH 1.4

BLIZZARD WORKS FAST, GOOD JOB

I take all the credit for this minor Fungal nerf.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
ApBuLLet
Profile Joined September 2010
United States604 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 01:30:42
August 25 2011 01:21 GMT
#153
As a Zerg player, I think fungal growth is a little bit overpowered. However, I think with the state of Zerg it is actually necessary for the infestor to be so strong because before the change, us Zergies were manhandled for about a year lol.

So, why do I think fungal growth is too strong?

Well, simply put, it does a shit load of damage and prevents movement. It is a support spell and a DPS spell put together, which happens pretty rarely in any game because it becomes a spell that you just spam and kill shit with in seconds. If it stays the way it is I think the energy cost should be raised, but even then I don't think that is a very good solution to the problems Zerg has had, but more like another quick fix.

Why do I think fungal growth NEEDS to be as strong as it is?

Zerg doesn't have a unit like a Colossus, Siege Tank, or even High Templar (storm), that can effectively zone areas other then the Infestor. I think Blizzard intended banelings to do this job, but with FF, Siege tanks, and Marines with stim, banelings just don't cut it. This is also the reason you hear so many people calling for the Lurker in HotS. Infestors and their insanely strong fungal growth spell, and to some extent the infested terrans as well, fill the role of an AoE unit that can control space, which is a very important role to be filled.

Without a sufficient space controlling unit, Zerg was abused so hard because they could only engage in certain areas of the map (really big ass open areas) to have a hope of winning a fight. However, the maps as well as other tools Protoss and Terran have (forcefield, slow tank pushes, sensor towers, etc.) make it really easy for Protoss and Terran to force engagements in positions that are unwinnable for a Zerg player without an AoE dps unit.

So basically, I feel like the Infestor as a unit is indeed overpowered, but Zerg as a whole is not.

The Infestor is overpowered because it has amazing versatility and utility, as it can effectively control space, deal huge amounts of damage, and harass. Essentially the only thing it does not do well is take damage like a "tank" unit would.

Zerg is not overpowered because it NEEDS a unit to control space for the reasons I mentioned earlier, and I also feel like it needs better midgame anti air. Hydras and Corruptors both have pretty glaring flaws that seem to out weigh their strengths. Hydras are too damn slow and die practically instantly to Colossus and Siege Tanks, and Corruptors have fairly low damage output and are useless once they finally kill whatever you made them to kill (usually Colossu). Sure they have corruption, but that does not nearly make them worth their cost, in terms of both resources and supply, in a battle where there is not a lot of air from the opponent. Also, Mutalisks can fill this role in ZvT (not so much in ZvP), but they are not very good at fighting head on and really rely on being mobile, which makes them more situation and not the Zerg go-to anti air unit.

Edit: Regarding the patch notes, I feel they definitely look like TEST changes, but it looks like they are heading in the right direction. I approve of them =)
Spacedude
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark161 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 01:33:46
August 25 2011 01:25 GMT
#154
As an unbiased Terran player I don't think that the infester is imbalanced without going deeper into that analyze. I do feel that it adds much to the dynamics of the game and increases the skill cap of the game. Like it can be very deadly if you get caught with your units in a clumped up ball which is something that you should be purnished for during - thus it makes the game more intense. It's also a unit that might allow you to make a comeback when you have fallen behind, and it's also very excellent at harassment. It's basically a very powerful (potentially) and versatile unit. Looking at it by itself then it's just a very well designed unit, imo. I do feel that since fungel holds units in place, unlike storm, it should possibly be a medium/fast missile attack instead of how it is now, though. Blizzard might want to give this some more thoughts at this time.
Protoss win, Protoss OP. Terran win, Terran OP. Zerg win, Zerg OP. Less whine, more gg.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
August 25 2011 01:25 GMT
#155
See, I was actually fine with fungal how it was, and neural parasite. Infested Terrans do too much DPS though >_<.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
cHaNg-sTa
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1058 Posts
August 25 2011 01:25 GMT
#156
On August 25 2011 10:18 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 10:15 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
On August 25 2011 09:58 ReignFayth wrote:
On August 25 2011 09:56 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
On August 25 2011 09:07 Whitewing wrote:
Infested terran is probably too strong a spell as is, if you sneak a couple infestors into a base an spam them while forces are out of position, you'll take down command centers. Dealing with them without AoE is pretty much impossible for protoss, and thrown into big engagements they can do absurd amounts of damage while soaking hits.

I have no issue with fungal growth or neural parasite though.

... That's like saying DT's sneaking into zerg's base and killing a hatchery = too strong

if DTs could cast storm

I'd def think it's too strong

DT's can also morph into a pretty good unit called an Archon.. just saying.

Or you can drop 2 DT's and 2 HT's and it will function similarly to 4 infestors.

And yes, I know they don't function completely the same given different scenarios. Just making the point that not all units are the same. Can Infestors be permanently cloaked and go around 1-shotting workers? No. Imagine an Infestor that can fungal+attack/1shot workers while burowed and a DT that can cloak/1shot workers + have the ability to storm everything. Both would be "OP".

as previously mentionned, infestors are a lot more versatile than DTs you can't compare both, at all, you don't see anyone sitting there with 20 DTs and cannons until they tech to carriers


Not arguing that they have more utility. Just saying that you stated the fact that a cluster of them sneaking into a base and taking it down, and the tone of it just made it sound like you thought that was too good. I could have misinterpreted and you meant to say that and everything else they could do made them too versatile. Versatility wasn't something I was arguing. I was just saying that a pack of infestors sneaking into a base and killing the CC/Nexus/Hatch doesn't make infestors "too strong" by any means.
Jaedong <3 HOOK'EM HORNS!
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
August 25 2011 01:26 GMT
#157
On August 25 2011 10:00 akalarry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 09:59 tymt wrote:
The only thing that bothers me with fungal growth is that it cant hit friendly units, makes it almost too user friendly. Meanwhile storm and emp can fuck you up if you just toss them around. Maybe pros know to handle these things but I have accidently emped my own orbital while chasing some annoying dts

I am a zerg player in 1v1s. Just felt I had to point that out before someone yells "terran tears!"


wow you can emp an orbital? mind blown


Ya I remember awhile back actually a few people thinking that if you were to use thors vs protoss EMPing them might actually be a good thing to do in order to prevent feedback. It never did pan out because that was almost right before they removed the energy (before bringing it back) and thors havnt reallly picked up since then.
StaplerPhone
Profile Joined March 2011
United States813 Posts
August 25 2011 01:28 GMT
#158
On August 25 2011 10:20 Chargelot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 10:19 StaplerPhone wrote:
On August 25 2011 10:17 Chargelot wrote:
HOLY SHIT GUYS
PATCH 1.4

BLIZZARD WORKS FAST, GOOD JOB

I take all the credit for this minor Fungal nerf.

It's yours, do more things like this <3
NaDa | MC | HerO | DeMusliM | TaeJa | viOLet
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
August 25 2011 01:31 GMT
#159
On August 25 2011 10:28 StaplerPhone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 10:20 Chargelot wrote:
On August 25 2011 10:19 StaplerPhone wrote:
On August 25 2011 10:17 Chargelot wrote:
HOLY SHIT GUYS
PATCH 1.4

BLIZZARD WORKS FAST, GOOD JOB

I take all the credit for this minor Fungal nerf.

It's yours, do more things like this <3

Guess I don't want to make the next one on the Orbital Command anymore.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
minisockey
Profile Joined June 2011
99 Posts
August 25 2011 01:32 GMT
#160
i think the infestor is fine as it is. its the only caster zerg has other then the queen and yes it has potential but is so easy 2 snipe off i think people just need 2 learn how 2 play against them better learn 2 split up units instead of making balls.
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