EPT
Why 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 10
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Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST | ||
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Kevan
Sweden2303 Posts
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kheldorin
Singapore539 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:49 Mylkyjo wrote: I agree with your sentiments but I just wanted to point out + Show Spoiler + Losira vs oGsEnsnare, Losira never recovers from a painful 2 rax I think you missed the joke. Blizzard have tweaked the bunker mechanic almost every patch that it has become a running joke. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:12 RoieTRS wrote: Admittedly I'd say zerg is the strongest race now. If the pro stats mean anything, in Korea, it's T > Z > P, where P is quite pitiful. Outside of Korea, the stats are pretty balanced. | ||
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Lordwar
Finland243 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:48 FeiLing wrote: Knowing that it won't happen, I still wanna throw this suggestion in: Switch Hunter Seeker Missile and Point Defense Drone (so PDD needs to be researched first). At the very least I think the duration has to go DOWN. Breaking a siege contain is hard enough. With 3 minutes duration in which your stalkers do Zero damage should you dare to engage it's absolutely impossible. Why would you want to do this? PDD is really minor in the big scope of things when it comes to 1/1/1. If it's some other design change you want then it really isn't on topic. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:50 zarepath wrote: But you can start the cyber core before you'd be able to start the robo. The issue isn't so much cost as it is time, as I gather from this thread. I'm just theorycrafting, though, and I should probably stop. I'll echo my earlier sentiment that I'd love to see some replays illustrating why Tyler's so wrong if he IS wrong. Well, you'll be probe cutting I think by that point. Or youll have core but no gas to research. I dunno something. Double core doesnt work either way. Im sure 2 rax would kill it. | ||
NonY
8750 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:26 Jayrod wrote: Theyre are BOTH wrong. This isn't broodwar. Just because a build is safe from "not dying" doesnt mean its safe for winning the game. These "safe" builds put you astronomically behind, hence why both of those players are unable to compete with their peers consistently. I say these openings "yield economically sound mid games" and you say that they "put you astronomically behind". What's the point? What's the point of simply contradicting my assessment of the strength of a robo or star opening's economy? By the way, I'm pretty sure that lack of practice is the thing holding me back, not build orders. If anything, you should take a careful and respectful look at how I approach the game because I'm able to hang with pros despite playing maybe a tenth or a fifth of the amount they do. Hell, if you don't count games played to get back in shape as practice, then I practice even less than a tenth. As for Artosis, I hate to say it but the guy has a really hard time getting good enough mechanics to do his knowledge and understanding justice. Artosis and I are two of the very few people that, for objective reasons, ought to be listened to despite not being the current best players in the world. I'm sure there are many others but we have the public history. But you can just leave it. You don't have to give my posts any more notice than any other poster here if you don't want to. However, making a misinformed argument to especially ignore my posts is not cool. | ||
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ProxyKnoxy
United Kingdom2576 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:44 zarepath wrote: This may sound a lot like a "use more nydus" strat... but what about double cybercore? You actually COULD get both hallucination and warp gate in time. Of course, that is a ridiculous cost to do it. 300 minerals + 150 gas for what you're proposing. 225 minerals (I think) + 100 gas for Robo + Obs. I think they would come at roughly the same time as well... Not worth it at all just for a scout, whereas if you have robo you have tech + perm scout | ||
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Jinivus
747 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:50 DooMDash wrote: But one or two specific matches through out the history of SC doesn't say much. It's always been around, but in the last few weeks its all of a sudden imba? I don't believe that, I believe Protoss players kept playing greedier and greedier and the meta game made 1-1-1 as effective as it is today. The metagame is irrelevant since no one can even think of a build that can reliably defeat it. It's not like MC would of won if he went 2 gate robo, or phoenix. Protoss are not playing greedy. MC did the only thing he could to try to hold it and still lost. Do you think he freaking wanted to 1 gate fe on XNC? | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:50 Starcraftplaylist wrote: Excuse my ignorance, why is 1-1-1 called an "all in-build"? If I'm not mistaken it will always do damage and it cant be impossible to follow up? :O looks more like a timing attack even if you pull a few scv from the line. It's actually like a triple all-in. | ||
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StaplerPhone
United States813 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:52 Lordwar wrote: 111 is not overpowered, which means it can be beaten Mind explaining how? | ||
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Tommie
China658 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:31 oxxo wrote: And for a while Korean pros couldn't stop marine/SCV all-ins, 6 gates, blueflame/marine, etc. etc. Just because it hasn't been figured out yet doesn't mean it's OP. Marine scv all ins were never a problem. They were only a problem in GSL 2 with superclose spawn positions on tiny maps but Nestea still won that GSL. 6gates have never been a problem. This build has been a problem for a long time. My opinion is that what really kills it is that terran can cut corners and tech really quickly now that the warpgate research time has been nerfed and protoss cant punish terran anymore. | ||
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Razuik
United States409 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:50 DooMDash wrote: But one or two specific matches through out the history of SC doesn't say much. It's always been around, but in the last few weeks its all of a sudden imba? I don't believe that, I believe Protoss players kept playing greedier and greedier and the meta game made 1-1-1 as effective as it is today. This is what I'm arguing. Until I see a very high level game where there is a 2gate robo opening and a successful and well executed 1-1-1 allin, I cannot really believe the OP. | ||
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phyren
United States1067 Posts
plz, theorycraft away about why my play is horrible. | ||
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akaname
United Kingdom599 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:25 Shinobi1982 wrote: We'll see what Genuis (Tuesday), HuK (Wednesday) and Puzzle (Wednesday) have come up with against their Terran opponents in their GSL ro16 matches. i sincerely hope so. if the top 4 of the GSL this season contains 3 or 4 terrans, (and assuming it's not patched beforehand), i'm not going to watch next season of GSL. | ||
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Carbonthief
United States289 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:50 Numy wrote: This sounds like a massive Tyler bash than anything else. Don't really understand it. Tyler is saying the lack of scouting information from such an early expand doesn't outweigh the economic advantage you could get. The whole OP is also talking about scouting information and how if you do fast expand you can deal with 1/1/1 but you could lose to other things hence you in this strange situation. Tyler says you can get that scouting information early and still be find on eco in midgame. Don't bash people so aggressively for absolutely no reason. If anything I said is perceived as Tyler bashing I apologize, I am actually a huge fan. So basically, we have to go back to gate robo gate expand in order to be safe... but what if our observer gets in his base and lo and behold, 1 rax FE? Are we not then sorely fucked? | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:47 Jayrod wrote: you're 100% correct. That's why no one can back up the claim the 1 basing is the best response. Tyler says the economic advantage is not necessary... well lets see a high level even match where that is true and the terran hasnt gifted the game. I know he's never done it in a televised match. Maybe hes talking about ladder players? Or the CPUs he practices his 111 defense against. That was a bit harsh. He has an opinion on it, it's fine to argue with him but jumping on him like this and saying he practices against AI instead of people doesn't help anyone. I think the Koreans are right: patch incoming. I'm just curious as to what it contains, and whether it can help PvT without shaking up the other matchups, and whether it will buff Protoss or nerf Terran (I suspect the latter, but I don't know). | ||
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dgwow
Canada1024 Posts
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
The opening posts explains why 1 base builds don't work. Why you think you know better than Gisado and all the Korean pros complaining about this, is completely beyond me. You can even watch like Tassadar against IMYoda in Code A August to see how well 1 Gate Phoenix with no expansion worked. | ||
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