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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On September 14 2011 03:24 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 03:20 fishinguy wrote:On September 13 2011 14:44 T0fuuu wrote:
Too much protoss talk atm lets go back to terran <:
Who else thinks marines are a bit too good in every matchup? They scale quite well and ball very tightly to do insane dps, in zvt and tvp we are seeing more marine heavy armys because marines with medivacs rape gateway armys pretty cost effeciently and let terrans get ghosts faster. In zvt its a bit more balanced because of banelings and creep but when the upgrades start getting piled on marines they become a walking wrecking ball, they can fight lings, roaches mutas and hydras very easily and can kill expos pretty quickly. Drops also get pretty ridiculous to deal with as zerg or protoss because of how effective marines are against small forces. Getting into lategame as well if terran and zerg exchange armys, reactors can remake marines at a frightening pace. Pretty much any expo without something silly like 3 cannons or spines can get taken out by a force of 8 marines.
Part of the reason they are so good now is because they have extra health now and a free range upgrade but the other reason is that now that dropships dont need room for medics more marines can be held and their damage output increases tremendously. Medivacs heal at a fast rate and make dealing with marines between minerals pretty annoying for both races.
I would suggest lowering the marine ROF just slightly. We go marines because everything else sucks. Its incredible difficult going mech or even pure marauder vs protoss. Its either marines or nothing. And nerfing a unit like the marine (backbone of the terran army) is going to do massive damage in all match ups and builds. Really? Every other Terran unit sucks? Oh.... I didn't know that.
That's a pretty large exaggeration. I what he meant when he said "everything else sucks" was this:
Mech-based play against Protoss isn't really viable. One wants to dumper minerals into marauders or marines for their versatility and strength. However, certain units (such as the immortal and the chargelot) are stronger against marauders than marines, so you need, at the very least, SOME marines-- and really, marines make up the core of your damage output. The terran gas units are the medivac, the viking, and the ghost in this matchup-- the medivac and the viking are more support/anti-protoss-unit-x type units, whereas the ghost is more of the traditional splash unit comparable to an HT. What this means, then, is that most of the time, our damage output comes from mineral units that are supported by gas units, whereas the protoss damage output comes from gas units that are supported by mineral units.
In this sense, nerfing marines is more comparable to nerfing some combination of colossus, archon and storm, whereas nerfing sentries, zealots, and stalkers would be comparable to nerfing ghosts, vikings, and medivacs.
Bear in mind that resources have a different role in different races.
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On September 14 2011 04:48 Belial88 wrote:
I stopped playing as random before 1-1-1, so I don't discuss pvt. Was rank 1 master, now playing on PTR. When promoted, I had been playing random (listed as Zerg for season before). So never fear QTIP, because god forbid you ever address my arguments rather than focus on the person saying it.
Glad to know baneling drops still work then. It's not me spreading misinformation, it's me spreading something that was all over reddit and the forums, and was 'confirmed' until just ago.
edit: and actually I don't think 111 is imbalanced, but since i dont really have any interesting to say about it and since i dont care about tvp, I just avoid the conversation.
When promoted you were playing random? You were promoted less than a week ago. (9/7/11)
That means you stopped playing random a week ago. And 1-1-1 just magically appeared in the last 1 week right? That's why you have no experience in PvT? How can you call yourself a high level random player while playing at the diamond level?
Got forbid you don't lie about your credentials when you post. Instead of addressing your multitude of baseless posts calling on your "masters experience" as a random player and your very recent promotion to Masters as a Zerg Player, I am directly addressing the source of this unreliable information.
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^ Right. I got to Diamond with Zerg, and switched back to Random while in Diamond. This also isn't my only account, but that's not really relevant (its diamond terran).
I think 1-1-1 is balanced just fine, but it's too early to tell. I don't care about TvP, i think it's boring and balanced, and talking about it is boring.
God forbid you ignore my arguments because they are right.
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On September 14 2011 05:42 Belial88 wrote:
^ Right. I got to Diamond with Zerg, and switched back to Random while in Diamond. This also isn't my only account, but that's not really relevant (its diamond terran).
I think 1-1-1 is balanced just fine, but it's too early to tell. I don't care about TvP, i think it's boring and balanced, and talking about it is boring.
God forbid you ignore my arguments because they are right.
So you were never a Masters Random player as you claimed. Also, you admit that you believe 1-1-1 is a one-week old phenomenon. You claim you played random before 1-1-1, but express great confidence in saying that 1-1-1 is "balanced just fine" while never having executed nor experienced it. Also, you were never a rank 1 Masters Zerg player. You supposedly also have a convenient smurf account that is Diamond Terran. Despite your "aptitude" in P/T, you find the match up "boring and balanced", and don't want to talk about it because it's "boring". How convenient.
Nothing you are saying is consistent.
You know when you keep lying to cover up your initial lie? Then you realize you suddenly have a series of inconsistencies that even a 2nd grader could point out? This is precisely where you are.
You're like the boy who cried wolf. Zero credibility.
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I am a Master Random, I got to Masters with random. I consider myself primarily a Zerg player, even though I play random. I would say my skill and play with Zerg is better than my other matchups except for PvZ (because I think it's just easy), and sometimes I stick with Zerg, like I did for much of Diamond.
I know 1-1-1 is older than a week, but it's still very new. I don't know what to tell you, I'm not huge into 1-1-1 and didn't 1-1-1 1/3rd of my games. I *don't* express great confidence that 1-1-1 is balanced, it's just a personal opinion on an issue I don't care about, on something I haven't taken great strides to analyze, like I have with ZvP. Even if every other Terran is doing 1-1-1, I didn't, and that probably has a lot to do with me not watching TvP, ever.
I was a rank 1 masters, and a smurf account has nothing to do any of your claims anyways. Despite my aptitude in P/T, I find PvT and TvP boring (TvT, TvZ, and PvZ are what I know better). Yes, very convenient, it might be why I switched to Zerg.
Everything I am saying is convenient, you somehow find it extremely important to attack my credibility when the arguments I bring up are relevant, regardless of if I was lying or not.
You're like a politician who likes to bold text, except you found no dirt because I never lied. But keep derailing the argument, it's okay, it's not like I haven't repeated my arguments a million times already.
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On September 14 2011 06:34 Belial88 wrote:
I am a Master Random, I got to Masters with random. I consider myself primarily a Zerg player, even though I play random. I would say my skill and play with Zerg is better than my other matchups except for PvZ (because I think it's just easy), and sometimes I stick with Zerg, like I did for much of Diamond.
I know 1-1-1 is older than a week, but it's still very new. I don't know what to tell you, I'm not huge into 1-1-1 and didn't 1-1-1 1/3rd of my games. I *don't* express great confidence that 1-1-1 is balanced, it's just a personal opinion on an issue I don't care about, on something I haven't taken great strides to analyze, like I have with ZvP. Even if every other Terran is doing 1-1-1, I didn't, and that probably has a lot to do with me not watching TvP, ever.
I was a rank 1 masters, and a smurf account has nothing to do any of your claims anyways. Despite my aptitude in P/T, I find PvT and TvP boring (TvT, TvZ, and PvZ are what I know better). Yes, very convenient, it might be why I switched to Zerg.
Everything I am saying is convenient, you somehow find it extremely important to attack my credibility when the arguments I bring up are relevant, regardless of if I was lying or not.
You're like a politician who likes to bold text, except you found no dirt because I never lied. But keep derailing the argument, it's okay, it's not like I haven't repeated my arguments a million times already.
1-1-1 is new. Are you serious?
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On September 14 2011 03:10 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 14:44 T0fuuu wrote:
Too much protoss talk atm lets go back to terran <:
Who else thinks marines are a bit too good in every matchup? They scale quite well and ball very tightly to do insane dps, in zvt and tvp we are seeing more marine heavy armys because marines with medivacs rape gateway armys pretty cost effeciently and let terrans get ghosts faster. In zvt its a bit more balanced because of banelings and creep but when the upgrades start getting piled on marines they become a walking wrecking ball, they can fight lings, roaches mutas and hydras very easily and can kill expos pretty quickly. Drops also get pretty ridiculous to deal with as zerg or protoss because of how effective marines are against small forces. Getting into lategame as well if terran and zerg exchange armys, reactors can remake marines at a frightening pace. Pretty much any expo without something silly like 3 cannons or spines can get taken out by a force of 8 marines.
Part of the reason they are so good now is because they have extra health now and a free range upgrade but the other reason is that now that dropships dont need room for medics more marines can be held and their damage output increases tremendously. Medivacs heal at a fast rate and make dealing with marines between minerals pretty annoying for both races.
I would suggest lowering the marine ROF just slightly. Marines are good because terrans are the only race who goes fast 3-3, so we often see 3-3 marines vs 1-1 *other stuff like lings, mutas (well, 1-0 mutas more often), zealots*, and in these situations the marines are melting everything. I guess it's because 3-3 only need an armory while it require hive for zerg. But some zergs have now fast 2-2 -> 3-3 builds that works well vs terran, those builds have even faster upgrades than the terran ones, and it works pretty well.
I don't really feel marines are too powerful, but I just found your statement odd. Plenty of non Terrans rush for upgrades. Maybe I'm not understanding the post :s
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1-1-1 is new. Are you serious?
lol, your comment shows how new 1-1-1 is. Not the destiny-cloud-fist build, it's referring to an all-in TvP build focused on siege tanks and techport units. Unless you actually do know what the new 1-1-1 is, in which case yes, it's fairly new, in the scheme of things. It wasn't until what, this GSL that it was widely used?
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I really don't understand why Terran has the best base defense (bunkers, PF and tanks) while at the same time having great harass with 4 different units. Banshee, Reaper, Hellion and Marine drops.
Not to mention the fact that all four of those are from buildings you would get regardless, so the harass doesn't require any building investment at all.
For Protoss, the only two viable harass units are DT and Phoenix, both which require a completely different tech route than normal play and as such a massive investment. They are also unable to kill workers to the same extent as the Terran counterparts. DT harass is more similar to Ghost harass, which also requires some investment and doesn't kill workers super fast. The overall low dps of the Protoss army makes them unable to kill workers fast even with their main attack force.
Being given so many options to harass and with a solid defense, I do feel that Terran can get a lot of easy wins if they opponent doesn't deal with it perfectly or if they are out of position.
As for marines, they are so good because they provide the best DPS per resources in the game of the range units (only beaten by the melee zergling).
In fact, marines have better DPS than stalker, despite stalkers costings 550% as much (standard 3:1 gas resource ratio).
Check https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CM2fmeYD&key=0Ah7e8gd66xh6dG1JZ1JEc3BlZFpENU1hWjh0ajF1dnc&hl=en&authkey=CM2fmeYD#gid=0 for unit dps comparison.
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On September 14 2011 06:53 Belial88 wrote:lol, your comment shows how new 1-1-1 is. Not the destiny-cloud-fist build, it's referring to an all-in TvP build focused on siege tanks and techport units. Unless you actually do know what the new 1-1-1 is, in which case yes, it's fairly new, in the scheme of things. It wasn't until what, this GSL that it was widely used?
Congratulations on using your 1337th post on the balance thread, by the way.
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On September 13 2011 09:06 Reborn8u wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 08:38 rpgalon wrote:On September 13 2011 08:27 WightyCity wrote:
i think having 100 shield on the warp prism will be awsome . finaly protoss drops... maybe ? yeah, since protoss can't drop effective shit to harass, and the only thing that really kills workers are far more expensive than zerg/terran drops, making protoss drops more safe can put the risk/reward in green again. less risk less reward instead of more risk less reward. Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 08:40 aZealot wrote:
I'd like to see the addition of another Gateway unit, perhaps unlockable after research or a tech structure, which deals (limited) AOE damage. IMO, Protoss have to wait too long for their AOE which can leave us with a lack of an army as we rush for Colossus/HT when, for example, confronted by mass Terran bio or Zerg armies. The Immortal although awesome against armoured/buildings does not do enough with its burst fire to enhance the efficiency of Protoss armies in small sizes and in the mid-game (unless against specific army compositions like mass Stalkes/Roaches/Marauders).
Another unit is needed so that Protoss do not have to depend so much on the Sentry to create/limit space and minimise effective DPS so that Protoss can engage on even and effective terms. Looks like you both want the same thing, REAVERS! (text) I can already hear the "Go play BW" lol
The Reaver would be nice. Damn, I miss that cute and monstrous death machine. But, I don't know if it would be applicable to SC2 unless it was significantly nerfed - which would be fair enough, I suppose. I do, think, however that Protoss needs another unit, a revised Reaver or something else, able to give AOE in the mid-game so that we are not so dependent on HT/Colossus so late. I don't think it an accident that our go-to effective mid-game army composition (against certain enemy compositions) is Zealot/Archon (with the Archon doing some AOE and also tanking). Clearly, if we do get a third AOE damage dealing unit (even a limited one) then the Colossus would have to be nerfed which is fine by me. I actually don't mind the Colossus, but a nerfed Colossus might also allow for the revitalisation of Protoss air play which is neutered by such units as the Viking and Corruptor as these units are either nerfed or removed from the game. It is a little annoying that while Protoss has such a rigid tech tree, in comparison to Terran and Zerg, in practice we are usually limited to 2 out of our 3 tech choices with real commitment to SG tech not really being an option (I would have hoped for a trade-off between the rigidity and the effectiveness of all Protoss tech trees).
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On September 14 2011 06:53 Belial88 wrote:lol, your comment shows how new 1-1-1 is. Not the destiny-cloud-fist build, it's referring to an all-in TvP build focused on siege tanks and techport units. Unless you actually do know what the new 1-1-1 is, in which case yes, it's fairly new, in the scheme of things. It wasn't until what, this GSL that it was widely used?
Yes it's true that it has only recently surged in popularity, but No it's not fairly new. Here's a thread ( link ) that mentions Marin/tank/bashee/raven pushing in TvP back in 2010! You really shouldn't keep trying to BSing teamliquid like this. :/
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We're not going to get any new harass units before HotS. So, for the time being, why not reduce graviton beam energy cost to 25? Can anyone find any substantial reason for that to be overpowered?
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I was thinking that medivacs could use a little tweak so that there is a slight drawback to healing while in battle. It would be interesting to see how it would affect the game if units that are being healed either get nerfed in their speed, rate of fire, damage, armor, or something like that. Only while they are being healed of course.
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On September 14 2011 10:42 Vaporak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 06:53 Belial88 wrote:1-1-1 is new. Are you serious? lol, your comment shows how new 1-1-1 is. Not the destiny-cloud-fist build, it's referring to an all-in TvP build focused on siege tanks and techport units. Unless you actually do know what the new 1-1-1 is, in which case yes, it's fairly new, in the scheme of things. It wasn't until what, this GSL that it was widely used? Yes it's true that it has only recently surged in popularity, but No it's not fairly new. Here's a thread ( link ) that mentions Marin/tank/bashee/raven pushing in TvP back in 2010! You really shouldn't keep trying to BSing teamliquid like this. :/
That wasn't a 1-1-1 as we see it in today's incarnation... 1-1-1 has been around for a while, but not as an aggressive contain. that focuses on tank/banshee and no marauders. You really shouldn't keep trying to troll.
We're not going to get any new harass units before HotS. So, for the time being, why not reduce graviton beam energy cost to 25? Can anyone find any substantial reason for that to be overpowered?
If you've ever seen 8 phoenixes ravage a mineral line after the early midgame when they had just been produced, you'd find it OP as well. A small handful of phoenix (slightly enough to be okay with a single turret) can just make an entire mineral line dissapear in seconds as it is. Their energy cost also balances how much damage they can do in the early game, it would be rather annoying if single starport opening beat hydras (right now it takes double starport) or just a single phoenix + VR could take out multiple queens. I know Zerg shouldn't stream them 1 by 1, but larva injects are important.
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On September 14 2011 11:42 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:42 Vaporak wrote:On September 14 2011 06:53 Belial88 wrote:1-1-1 is new. Are you serious? lol, your comment shows how new 1-1-1 is. Not the destiny-cloud-fist build, it's referring to an all-in TvP build focused on siege tanks and techport units. Unless you actually do know what the new 1-1-1 is, in which case yes, it's fairly new, in the scheme of things. It wasn't until what, this GSL that it was widely used? Yes it's true that it has only recently surged in popularity, but No it's not fairly new. Here's a thread ( link ) that mentions Marin/tank/bashee/raven pushing in TvP back in 2010! You really shouldn't keep trying to BSing teamliquid like this. :/ That wasn't a 1-1-1 as we see it in today's incarnation... 1-1-1 has been around for a while, but not as an aggressive contain. that focuses on tank/banshee and no marauders. You really shouldn't keep trying to troll. Show nested quote +We're not going to get any new harass units before HotS. So, for the time being, why not reduce graviton beam energy cost to 25? Can anyone find any substantial reason for that to be overpowered? If you've ever seen 8 phoenixes ravage a mineral line after the early midgame when they had just been produced, you'd find it OP as well. A small handful of phoenix (slightly enough to be okay with a single turret) can just make an entire mineral line dissapear in seconds as it is. Their energy cost also balances how much damage they can do in the early game, it would be rather annoying if single starport opening beat hydras (right now it takes double starport) or just a single phoenix + VR could take out multiple queens. I know Zerg shouldn't stream them 1 by 1, but larva injects are important.
Yeah if you make no defenses as zerg, then sure phoenixes will deal some damage, but they can still only kill 4 units each. Banshees cost the same and have no limit on kills, while mutas cost less and also have no limit. If you let 8 banshees or mutas into your mineral line, you will lose far more than from 8 phoenixes. And we all know that zergs do indeed defend. Any good zerg knows when to put down spores and how to make more queens in order to stop phoenix harass. They are hardly ever forced to make hydras anymore since that spore crawler buff where they can relocate in 5 seconds.
Even if you do kill a queen or two, zergs should have extra by that point anyway. If you watched nestea play vs protoss air you would understand how bad it is at harassing. He once lost 16 drones, multiple queens, and a few spores before stabilizing. And at the end of it he still had 80 drones. That is the problem with them atm. This buff is very small and would give toss something to hold them over, while atm they are in need of help with harass. But let's wait to see how much this patch helps first. I think the warp prism buff will add a lot to toss's harass potential.
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On September 14 2011 11:42 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:42 Vaporak wrote:On September 14 2011 06:53 Belial88 wrote:1-1-1 is new. Are you serious? lol, your comment shows how new 1-1-1 is. Not the destiny-cloud-fist build, it's referring to an all-in TvP build focused on siege tanks and techport units. Unless you actually do know what the new 1-1-1 is, in which case yes, it's fairly new, in the scheme of things. It wasn't until what, this GSL that it was widely used? Yes it's true that it has only recently surged in popularity, but No it's not fairly new. Here's a thread ( link ) that mentions Marin/tank/bashee/raven pushing in TvP back in 2010! You really shouldn't keep trying to BSing teamliquid like this. :/ That wasn't a 1-1-1 as we see it in today's incarnation... 1-1-1 has been around for a while, but not as an aggressive contain. that focuses on tank/banshee and no marauders. You really shouldn't keep trying to troll. Show nested quote +We're not going to get any new harass units before HotS. So, for the time being, why not reduce graviton beam energy cost to 25? Can anyone find any substantial reason for that to be overpowered? If you've ever seen 8 phoenixes ravage a mineral line after the early midgame when they had just been produced, you'd find it OP as well. A small handful of phoenix (slightly enough to be okay with a single turret) can just make an entire mineral line dissapear in seconds as it is. Their energy cost also balances how much damage they can do in the early game, it would be rather annoying if single starport opening beat hydras (right now it takes double starport) or just a single phoenix + VR could take out multiple queens. I know Zerg shouldn't stream them 1 by 1, but larva injects are important.
I can't believe you still think1-1-1 is a new build hahaha. How long have even been playing starcraft for?lol. Tester got 1-1-1'd contained on scrap station in the first ever gsl tournament......or is that to old enough?
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On September 14 2011 11:42 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:42 Vaporak wrote:On September 14 2011 06:53 Belial88 wrote:1-1-1 is new. Are you serious? lol, your comment shows how new 1-1-1 is. Not the destiny-cloud-fist build, it's referring to an all-in TvP build focused on siege tanks and techport units. Unless you actually do know what the new 1-1-1 is, in which case yes, it's fairly new, in the scheme of things. It wasn't until what, this GSL that it was widely used? Yes it's true that it has only recently surged in popularity, but No it's not fairly new. Here's a thread ( link ) that mentions Marin/tank/bashee/raven pushing in TvP back in 2010! You really shouldn't keep trying to BSing teamliquid like this. :/ That wasn't a 1-1-1 as we see it in today's incarnation... 1-1-1 has been around for a while, but not as an aggressive contain. that focuses on tank/banshee and no marauders. You really shouldn't keep trying to troll. Show nested quote +We're not going to get any new harass units before HotS. So, for the time being, why not reduce graviton beam energy cost to 25? Can anyone find any substantial reason for that to be overpowered? If you've ever seen 8 phoenixes ravage a mineral line after the early midgame when they had just been produced, you'd find it OP as well. A small handful of phoenix (slightly enough to be okay with a single turret) can just make an entire mineral line dissapear in seconds as it is. Their energy cost also balances how much damage they can do in the early game, it would be rather annoying if single starport opening beat hydras (right now it takes double starport) or just a single phoenix + VR could take out multiple queens. I know Zerg shouldn't stream them 1 by 1, but larva injects are important.
As opposed to 8 Mutas or Banshees? Phoenixes will do significantly less damage. They also can't kill static defense or any building for that matter. Stargate harass practically never does any worthwhile economic damage as is. You admit this yourself in multiple posts. And yet when I propose a fairly reasonable change to improve that, you go back to "oh no that would be difficult to defend with just queens and spores". Well, guess what, dedicated and expensive harass should be difficult to defend with minimal investment.
That aside, this kind of change would let the Protoss harass with his Phoenix, and still have some energy left to defend in case of a counter. This is especially important against Terran, where a Phoenix opening often cannot hold an expansion against any kind of pressure.
Alternatively, you can have them spawn with more starting energy, but I still think the cost reduction is better. Above all, Phoenix are cool units, fun to watch, fun to use, but relatively apm-intensive to make full use of. It's certainly a better unit to buff than the Immortal, which is basically Dragoon 2.0, complete with the terrible AI.
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On September 14 2011 11:42 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:42 Vaporak wrote:On September 14 2011 06:53 Belial88 wrote:1-1-1 is new. Are you serious? lol, your comment shows how new 1-1-1 is. Not the destiny-cloud-fist build, it's referring to an all-in TvP build focused on siege tanks and techport units. Unless you actually do know what the new 1-1-1 is, in which case yes, it's fairly new, in the scheme of things. It wasn't until what, this GSL that it was widely used? Yes it's true that it has only recently surged in popularity, but No it's not fairly new. Here's a thread ( link ) that mentions Marin/tank/bashee/raven pushing in TvP back in 2010! You really shouldn't keep trying to BSing teamliquid like this. :/ That wasn't a 1-1-1 as we see it in today's incarnation... 1-1-1 has been around for a while, but not as an aggressive contain. that focuses on tank/banshee and no marauders. You really shouldn't keep trying to troll.
You're literally just ignoring evidence now huh. :/ Your argument was that 1/1/1 openings have been around for a while but not aggressive ones focusing on tank/starport units. I post a forum post mentioning a strong TvP push off of 1/1/1 openings that is marine/siegetank/raven/banshee aka focusing on tank/starport units and your answer is what? That the new 1/1/1 focuses on tank/banshee and no marauders so my link doesn't count? What are you even trying to say? The link I posted doesn't say to get marauders! You're literally just incoherently saying random things at this point.
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On September 14 2011 11:58 Fig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 11:42 Belial88 wrote:On September 14 2011 10:42 Vaporak wrote:On September 14 2011 06:53 Belial88 wrote:1-1-1 is new. Are you serious? lol, your comment shows how new 1-1-1 is. Not the destiny-cloud-fist build, it's referring to an all-in TvP build focused on siege tanks and techport units. Unless you actually do know what the new 1-1-1 is, in which case yes, it's fairly new, in the scheme of things. It wasn't until what, this GSL that it was widely used? Yes it's true that it has only recently surged in popularity, but No it's not fairly new. Here's a thread ( link ) that mentions Marin/tank/bashee/raven pushing in TvP back in 2010! You really shouldn't keep trying to BSing teamliquid like this. :/ You're literally just ignoring evidence now huh. :/ Your argument was that 1/1/1 openings have been around for a while but not aggressive ones focusing on tank/starport units. I post a forum post mentioning a strong TvP push off of 1/1/1 openings that is marine/siegetank/raven/banshee aka focusing on tank/starport units and your answer is what? That the new 1/1/1 focuses on tank/banshee and no marauders so my link doesn't count? What are you even trying to say? The link I posted doesn't say to get marauders! You're literally just incoherently saying random things at this point. That wasn't a 1-1-1 as we see it in today's incarnation... 1-1-1 has been around for a while, but not as an aggressive contain. that focuses on tank/banshee and no marauders. You really shouldn't keep trying to troll. And the current 1-1-1 has not been extremely popular as a metagame strat. Everyone already knows that it was popular in the beta, but pretending that the current metagame of TvP has been that way forever is ridiculous. If you have no idea what I mean when I say "1-1-1 as it is now in the current metagame is a new metagame shift" then you are clearly trolling. We're not going to get any new harass units before HotS. So, for the time being, why not reduce graviton beam energy cost to 25? Can anyone find any substantial reason for that to be overpowered? If you've ever seen 8 phoenixes ravage a mineral line after the early midgame when they had just been produced, you'd find it OP as well. A small handful of phoenix (slightly enough to be okay with a single turret) can just make an entire mineral line dissapear in seconds as it is. Their energy cost also balances how much damage they can do in the early game, it would be rather annoying if single starport opening beat hydras (right now it takes double starport) or just a single phoenix + VR could take out multiple queens. I know Zerg shouldn't stream them 1 by 1, but larva injects are important. Yeah if you make no defenses as zerg, then sure phoenixes will deal some damage, but they can still only kill 4 units each. Banshees cost the same and have no limit on kills, while mutas cost less and also have no limit. If you let 8 banshees or mutas into your mineral line, you will lose far more than from 8 phoenixes. And we all know that zergs do indeed defend. Any good zerg knows when to put down spores and how to make more queens in order to stop phoenix harass. They are hardly ever forced to make hydras anymore since that spore crawler buff where they can relocate in 5 seconds. Even if you do kill a queen or two, zergs should have extra by that point anyway. If you watched nestea play vs protoss air you would understand how bad it is at harassing. He once lost 16 drones, multiple queens, and a few spores before stabilizing. And at the end of it he still had 80 drones. That is the problem with them atm. This buff is very small and would give toss something to hold them over, while atm they are in need of help with harass. But let's wait to see how much this patch helps first. I think the warp prism buff will add a lot to toss's harass potential.
Enough phoenix eventually bypass spores since they can kill a mineral line so fast when energy builds up. 4-6 mutas don't kill workers fast at all, and you can shut them down with static D or unit positioning. A banshee is pretty deadly, but has limited combat application.
I don't think any protoss has complained that they can't get enough graviton beam off, and 8 phoenix just can shred an entire mineral line instantly when they've been around and pooled a bit of energy. Making it so you need less phoenix wouldn't be a great change.
I can't believe you still think1-1-1 is a new build hahaha. How long have even been playing starcraft for?lol. Tester got 1-1-1'd contained on scrap station in the first ever gsl tournament......or is that to old enough?
He didn't get siege tanks... 1-1-1 as an aggressive contain focused on siege tech and banshees with mass marine support is pretty new. I guess that's why the pros have been complaining about 1-1-1 being imbalanced for such a long time.
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