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On September 13 2011 08:20 Aiurr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 08:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 13 2011 08:07 Bagi wrote:On September 13 2011 07:24 Whitewing wrote:
Balance discussion thread right? Uh...
Nerf Terran, buff Protoss, slightly buff Zerg.
Kk, thank you!
Oh specifics? Gateway units need to be stronger, probably should give them more benefits from upgrades. Charge needs a shorter research time and should be 150/150 not 200/200. Give void rays their 7 range back or put the speed upgrade back in the game (or decrease their cost to 200/150). Increase carrier armor and reduce carrier build time to make it a viable tech path. Kaydarin amulet should be put back in the game as an upgrade that increases the rate at which high templar gain energy instead of being an upgrade that increases starting energy.
Hydralisks should receive either a damage buff or a damage nerf and a cost decrease and be made a one supply unit. Change Hydralisk's type to Biological, it should not be light (It's bigger than an effing marauder man -_-). Remove burrow move from infestors, they should not be a harass unit on their own as well. Allow them to neural parasite massive units, but not psionic, and give ultralisks a slight buff to damage, and give them an ability to take reduced damage from area of effect attacks like siege tanks in siege mode, storm, and similar abilities. Give corrupters some additional range and make corruption activate passively on whatever they attack with a short duration.
Add 25 gas to the cost of making hellions, reduce income from MULES to 200 per MULE instead of 270, increase cost of researching concussive shells and stim to 100/100 and 150/150 respectively. Change everything! What could possibly go wrong? Marines should also have constantly decreasing life  But seriously, I think Charge should only be 150/150 instead of 200/200. Zealots are useless against Terran until they become chargelots, unless the Terran opponent has no idea how to micro... and zealots are supposed to be the damage dealers in a zealot/ stalker/ sentry ball. Zealots may be useless without charge, but with charge they become really stong... they got about 2x DPS of a stalker and they die after 6 shots from a siege tank... this is why I think charge is not a thing you should get cheap ;]
I agree. Is 150/150 cheap, in your opinion? (It's more expensive than any infantry upgrade, right?) How much is concussive shells again? Like 50/50? That's nothing. And the research time for charge is long too (plus the fact that you need a twilight council). Concussive shells is a quick upgrade that's basically free, and you get as soon as you have marauder tech. Charge comes at mid-tier tech, takes a while to upgrade (even with chrono boosting), and is currently one of the most expensive things a Protoss can upgrade... and it's for the first attacking unit it can produce! ::shrugs::
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i think having 100 shield on the warp prism will be awsome . finaly protoss drops... maybe ?
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On September 13 2011 08:26 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 08:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 13 2011 08:07 Bagi wrote:On September 13 2011 07:24 Whitewing wrote:
Balance discussion thread right? Uh...
Nerf Terran, buff Protoss, slightly buff Zerg.
Kk, thank you!
Oh specifics? Gateway units need to be stronger, probably should give them more benefits from upgrades. Charge needs a shorter research time and should be 150/150 not 200/200. Give void rays their 7 range back or put the speed upgrade back in the game (or decrease their cost to 200/150). Increase carrier armor and reduce carrier build time to make it a viable tech path. Kaydarin amulet should be put back in the game as an upgrade that increases the rate at which high templar gain energy instead of being an upgrade that increases starting energy.
Hydralisks should receive either a damage buff or a damage nerf and a cost decrease and be made a one supply unit. Change Hydralisk's type to Biological, it should not be light (It's bigger than an effing marauder man -_-). Remove burrow move from infestors, they should not be a harass unit on their own as well. Allow them to neural parasite massive units, but not psionic, and give ultralisks a slight buff to damage, and give them an ability to take reduced damage from area of effect attacks like siege tanks in siege mode, storm, and similar abilities. Give corrupters some additional range and make corruption activate passively on whatever they attack with a short duration.
Add 25 gas to the cost of making hellions, reduce income from MULES to 200 per MULE instead of 270, increase cost of researching concussive shells and stim to 100/100 and 150/150 respectively. Change everything! What could possibly go wrong? Marines should also have constantly decreasing life But seriously, I think Charge should only be 150/150 instead of 200/200. Zealots are useless against Terran until they become chargelots, unless the Terran opponent has no idea how to micro... and zealots are supposed to be the damage dealers in a zealot/ stalker/ sentry ball. But at the same time Zealot/Sentry is sooo strong if you have +1 armor and they don't have +1 attack yet (easily exploitable timing windows due to chrono)... I suffer from early game timing attacks all the time vs guardian shielded Zealots... have marines/rauders tickle them (although before charge at least you can kite with rauders).
Yeah I think if you throw down plenty of forcefields and wall in infantry- to prevent any micro- then zealots can really hack away at marines and marauders (and the +1 armor and GS surely helps) but if the Terran can split his army or move around at all, then the Protoss is toast.
I feel that often times, the marauders can engage in such a way that the sentries can't all wall behind the army, allowing the infantry to harrass and pick off a few Protoss units at a time. If the Terran runs straight into the Protoss, then the Terran deserves to die 
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On September 13 2011 08:27 WightyCity wrote:
i think having 100 shield on the warp prism will be awsome . finaly protoss drops... maybe ?
yeah, since protoss can't drop effective shit to harass, and the only thing that really kills workers are far more expensive than zerg/terran drops, making protoss drops more safe can put the risk/reward in green again.
less risk less reward instead of more risk less reward.
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I'd like to see the addition of another Gateway unit, perhaps unlockable after research or a tech structure, which deals (limited) AOE damage. IMO, Protoss have to wait too long for their AOE which can leave us with a lack of an army as we rush for Colossus/HT when, for example, confronted by mass Terran bio or Zerg armies. The Immortal although awesome against armoured/buildings does not do enough with its burst fire to enhance the efficiency of Protoss armies in small sizes and in the mid-game (unless against specific army compositions like mass Stalkes/Roaches/Marauders).
Another unit is needed so that Protoss do not have to depend so much on the Sentry to create/limit space and minimise effective DPS so that Protoss can engage on even and effective terms.
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On September 13 2011 08:38 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 08:27 WightyCity wrote:
i think having 100 shield on the warp prism will be awsome . finaly protoss drops... maybe ? yeah, since protoss can't drop effective shit to harass, and the only thing that really kills workers are far more expensive than zerg/terran drops, making protoss drops more safe can put the risk/reward in green again. less risk less reward instead of more risk less reward.
Agreed. I find warp prism harrass to be really useful when pulled off, but a single unit often shuts it down >.> I'm looking forward to this buff
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On September 13 2011 08:38 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 08:27 WightyCity wrote:
i think having 100 shield on the warp prism will be awsome . finaly protoss drops... maybe ? yeah, since protoss can't drop effective shit to harass, and the only thing that really kills workers are far more expensive than zerg/terran drops, making protoss drops more safe can put the risk/reward in green again. less risk less reward instead of more risk less reward.
On September 13 2011 08:40 aZealot wrote:
I'd like to see the addition of another Gateway unit, perhaps unlockable after research or a tech structure, which deals (limited) AOE damage. IMO, Protoss have to wait too long for their AOE which can leave us with a lack of an army as we rush for Colossus/HT when, for example, confronted by mass Terran bio or Zerg armies. The Immortal although awesome against armoured/buildings does not do enough with its burst fire to enhance the efficiency of Protoss armies in small sizes and in the mid-game (unless against specific army compositions like mass Stalkes/Roaches/Marauders).
Another unit is needed so that Protoss do not have to depend so much on the Sentry to create/limit space and minimise effective DPS so that Protoss can engage on even and effective terms.
Looks like you both want the same thing, REAVERS!
2 gate robo would then give protoss an amazing harass unit, a reason to get prism speed, an aoe counter to stop MM or Ling roach from smashing our expo even when we take it later than them. It would also help with a lot of the infestor shenanigans because reavers had some sick range. The 1/1/1 wouldn't work because the reaver if micro'd well would rape the marines and could be picked up to avoid tank/banshee dmg. Might be too strong with FF's though, so just get rid of that retarded unit called the sentry and buff zealot and stalker or just make the twilight cheaper so we can actually get the upgrades for them and they are cost effective sooner. Because a 125/50 stalker having less dps than a 50 mineral unstimmed marine is a joke.
While they're at it just get rid of the stupid a-move colossus and the slow ass "I'm countered by every races 1st unit" immortals too. Really the Immortal is just an overpriced, un-upgradable, slow version of a marauder. Protoss doesn't need them to stop mech, we have charge, voidrays, and psi storm. Not to mention terrans don't have spider mines.
At least Reavers take skill and multitasking to be effective and boy can they be effective! Everyone bitches about the FF's and Colossus, and protoss players would probably rather have units that give them decisions and flexibility and don't cost an absurd amount of gas.
I know there's gotta be plenty of toss out there who are sick of hiding behind force fields, so they can spend 800 gas to get 2 colossus out, so their army finally isn't shit on in a straight fight. Seriously, who doesn't think protoss would be more fun, flexible, skill based, if they just got rid of sentries, immortals, and colossus and brought back reavers? Give the Ht's back their hallucinate. While your at it, make the damn motherships worth getting. They would be nice if they did damage or could tank more damage, considering their cost. Hell, you could even give the mothership FF's. It has a lot of energy so it could cast a bunch of them, and late game Zerg, Terran, or Protoss has the opportunity to counter them anyway.
I can already hear the "Go play BW" lol
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United States7483 Posts
On September 13 2011 07:24 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 07:10 Techno wrote:On September 13 2011 07:05 rpgalon wrote:On September 13 2011 06:42 Aiurr wrote:On August 16 2011 09:54 TENTHST wrote:
1) Marine - 2.25
2) Marauder - 2.25
3) Unsieged Siege Tank - 2.25
4) Medivac - 2.5
5) Ghost - 2.25
6) Raven - 2.25
7) Thor - 1.88
8) Viking in air - 2.75
9) Banshee - 2.75
Notice how most of the core units have move speeds between 2.25 and 2.75? This means the Terran player can have a 1 army hot-key of Marines/Marauders/Medivacs/Ghosts/Tanks/Viking (a typical composition when playing versus Protoss), and tab through categories, without ever having to worry about a single unit type reaching the battle before the rest of the group.
Now let's take a look at the core units for a basic Protoss and Zerg army:
1) Zealot with Charge- 2.75
2) Stalker - 2.95
3) Sentry - 2.25
4) High Templar - 1.88
5) Colossus - 2.25
6) Immortal - 2.25
7) Dark Templar - 2.81
8) Phoenix - 4.25
9) Void Ray - 2.25
ok so lets make it straight... you think that marauders with the speed of stalkers would make it harder for terran? also, I want to throw in my 2 cents regarding "terran being the most forgiving race because they can drop supply depots and drop 6 mules at a time if they forgot to do it earlier" so... yeaaa but it works only in the bronzish leagues... it's the same as if I said that zerg is forgiving because you can rebuild workers 14 at a time from 2 hatcheries after you get harassed... zerg is forgiving because after getting all your army killed and workers, they need like 2 minutes of peace to get back where they were... I think the game is pretty much well balanced, but I'd just change corruptors, collosi, reapers and hellions for something else... terran is the most forgiving race, there is nothing to argue here. & droping 6 mules work in grandmasters too... Let me try to argue with you then. Terran is the most "forgiving" race when it comes to -calling down mules -getting supply blocked -scanning PERIOD Disagreed. It can be a bitch to avoid getting supply blocked as Terran. I think Zerg is the least punished for being supply blocked. You still inject, and your hatcheries still produce larvae until 3. Meaning that if you get supply blocked and aren't in any imminent threat of being killed, you'll almost hardly notice that you were even blocked. At the same time, ovies take 25s to build, depots take 30s --> less forgiving. And to avoid getting supply blocked as Zerg, it's super easy when your screen is elsewhere to hit 1svv (my hatches are on 1). With Terran you must return to your base and have a decent base layout, and have to pull multiple scvs to make the depots. I'd also say Zerg is more forgiving in the harvester count. Sure, mules help tremendously if you need to simply keep afloat for a few minutes, but in terms of a macro game, Zergs ability to shit out a ton of drones in an instant is huge, and can help them easily recover from BF hellions. Are they behind? Yes, but if you can get off say a lucky baneling hit on marines via burrow or simply connecting them by catching T out of position, you can easily swing back instantly into the lead. Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 07:24 Whitewing wrote:
Balance discussion thread right? Uh...
Nerf Terran, buff Protoss, slightly buff Zerg.
Kk, thank you!
Oh specifics? Gateway units need to be stronger, probably should give them more benefits from upgrades. Charge needs a shorter research time and should be 150/150 not 200/200. Give void rays their 7 range back or put the speed upgrade back in the game (or decrease their cost to 200/150). Increase carrier armor and reduce carrier build time to make it a viable tech path. Kaydarin amulet should be put back in the game as an upgrade that increases the rate at which high templar gain energy instead of being an upgrade that increases starting energy.
Hydralisks should receive either a damage buff or a damage nerf and a cost decrease and be made a one supply unit. Change Hydralisk's type to Biological, it should not be light (It's bigger than an effing marauder man -_-). Remove burrow move from infestors, they should not be a harass unit on their own as well. Allow them to neural parasite massive units, but not psionic, and give ultralisks a slight buff to damage, and give them an ability to take reduced damage from area of effect attacks like siege tanks in siege mode. Give corrupters some additional range and make corruption activate passively on whatever they attack with a short duration.
Add 25 gas to the cost of making hellions, reduce income from MULES to 200 per MULE instead of 270, increase cost of researching concussive shells and stim to 100/100 and 150/150 respectively. Ewwww. Some of the worst changes I've seen yet. Blindly making gateway units stronger would simply make 4gate OP. Why in the world would you suggest buffing charge when it's like the go-to upgrade that demolishes everything else?! It's SOOO strong. If toss is UP, don't buff the one thing they always go for, buff something else. Buffing voids would also be a complete joke to their timing attacks, and the speed upgrade made toss utterly unbeatable lategame if you could mass them, making them better than carriers. Carrier change could be ok with armor at 4 (it's at 3 currently yes?). Energy rate upgrades are silly imo and don't belong in SC2, all energy has always regened at an equal rate, if anything just go to +15 energy. Hydras are already biological. They are biological AND light. I think NP not working vs archons is a bigger nerf than colossus but I can cede this point. Removing burrow from infestors is such a massive nerf though it completely overshadows everything else you said. Your Terran nerfs are so utterly miserable that I suspect you lack even a basic understanding of this game.
Uh, how exactly would making upgrades like +1 weapons helping gateway units more make the 4 gate stronger? Last time I checked, nobody gets +1 before a 4 gate. You buff charge because A: it takes forever to get, B: it doesn't demolish everything, chargelots are pretty bad vs. a bio ball with medivacs if the terran micros, they do almost no damage, and you can't play a gateway army vs. bio army at all without charge. You just have to get colossi or other tech. Buffing void rays would not be a complete joke to their timing attacks, that 3 gate void ray all-in really only kills terrans going for certain builds. As for late game: yeah, speed rays were good when players had no idea how to play the game well and got removed quickly. I don't think it was deserved, and void rays are quite a bit weaker now than they were once with damage nerfs etc. Carrier armor is currently at 2, interceptors die immediately and don't regen if they somehow live, and the dps for the cost of the unit and supply cost is terrible.
I was saying to take away the light status of hydralisks and leave them as only biological. Also, I didn't say to remove burrow from infestors, I said remove burrow MOVEMENT. They shouldn' t be able to stealth into a base and kill an entire base as a support caster, at least not without drops or something. Ghosts can sort of do it, but you don't kill a nexus with 3-4 ghosts, and cloak actually costs them energy, and an upgrade that doesn't benefit almost all of your units. You compensate for weaking infestors a bit by buffing corrupters and hydralisks a bit, which I feel would be a net buff for zerg (if only because they'd have more variety, which makes them less predictable).
The terran nerfs are designed to weaken terran early game by making attacks with scvs weaker (by making mules weaker at compensating for missing scvs), and making the bio upgrades more expensive an therefore weakening terran early game a bit more. Terran has the strongest early game of all 3 races easily, but they also have the strongest late game currently, and hellions are so cheap there is no risk to suiciding them to kill workers. By weakening their early game a little bit (it's not a huge hit).
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On September 12 2011 11:04 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +Roach/Ling all-ins aren't easy to scout at all, if the Zerg actively denies worker scouts. Part of the reason you don't see them anymore is that Protosses have started playing a bit safer, have gotten better at handling the actual attack, and also because there's no reason for the Zerg to take such a huge risk when they can just take a quick third and be way ahead in the midgame. Roach/ling is horribly all-in for Zerg, and if Protoss just makes a 2nd cannon it's stopped. It's also heavily map dependent - on XNC it will always work (no one FFE on that map though...), but maps like Shakuras you can get away with a single cannon. And it's pretty easy to scout for - no natural base before lings, roach warren with your probe, etc. The losira/nestea style roach/ling is 35 roach warren, which you can see with hallucination. It's a horrible build, and Zerg has no way to recover from it. Zerg stopped doing it because it's a shitty build and you're just hoping Protoss plays incompetently and has horrible building placement. And it's not even good as aggression, you are completely all-in with just making 7 roaches and there's no way to recover if you don't at least kill a nexus.
It's not a horrible build at all against 3gate expand. If you get warpgate followed by immediate hallucination you'll finish hallucination ~7:15 which is also around the same time 8-9 roaches will be halfway across the map and around the same time your natural expansion will be finishing. At this point you're on even harvester count (slightly behind on economy since you're only mining from one base still at this point). Zerg takes a 3rd during the attack at ~8 minutes.
The attack can end the game but if P miscontrols but if it doesn't you've forced out all of the sentry energy. It takes about 3 minutes for a sentry to gain 100 energy (which is coincidentally about the same time it takes to get a lair and burrow). If P moves out anyways zerg backstabs with leftover speedlings and buys more time.
Most players that kept using 3gate expand began getting 1-2 cannons in case of roach-ling but if they take the other response to 3gate expand and just drone very heavily then that investment drastically hurts your pushing power. And since hallucination doesn't come out in time you can't know which they are doing ahead of time.
Hence, after GSL May 3gate sentry expand fell out of favor for voidray expands and forge expands which avoid that silly guessing game.
P.S. people do forge expand on XNC
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People stopped doing 3 gate expands in favor of FFE, not because roach/ling all-in is a good counter to it.
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With the Prism buff I really hope we see some play with 4-5 prims at once all over the place. Creating all sorts of havoc, and of course of of them traveling with the main army.
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On September 13 2011 10:21 Belial88 wrote:
People stopped doing 3 gate expands in favor of FFE, not because roach/ling all-in is a good counter to it.
What happens if the Zerg just throws down a pool first and decides to send out zerglings?
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On September 13 2011 10:21 Belial88 wrote:
People stopped doing 3 gate expands in favor of FFE, not because roach/ling all-in is a good counter to it.
If you're a progamer and you casually read balance threads but avoid posting just to keep away from attention and drama, could you please take a small amount of your time and tell this guy he is full of shit.
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On September 13 2011 08:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 08:20 Aiurr wrote:On September 13 2011 08:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 13 2011 08:07 Bagi wrote:On September 13 2011 07:24 Whitewing wrote:
Balance discussion thread right? Uh...
Nerf Terran, buff Protoss, slightly buff Zerg.
Kk, thank you!
Oh specifics? Gateway units need to be stronger, probably should give them more benefits from upgrades. Charge needs a shorter research time and should be 150/150 not 200/200. Give void rays their 7 range back or put the speed upgrade back in the game (or decrease their cost to 200/150). Increase carrier armor and reduce carrier build time to make it a viable tech path. Kaydarin amulet should be put back in the game as an upgrade that increases the rate at which high templar gain energy instead of being an upgrade that increases starting energy.
Hydralisks should receive either a damage buff or a damage nerf and a cost decrease and be made a one supply unit. Change Hydralisk's type to Biological, it should not be light (It's bigger than an effing marauder man -_-). Remove burrow move from infestors, they should not be a harass unit on their own as well. Allow them to neural parasite massive units, but not psionic, and give ultralisks a slight buff to damage, and give them an ability to take reduced damage from area of effect attacks like siege tanks in siege mode, storm, and similar abilities. Give corrupters some additional range and make corruption activate passively on whatever they attack with a short duration.
Add 25 gas to the cost of making hellions, reduce income from MULES to 200 per MULE instead of 270, increase cost of researching concussive shells and stim to 100/100 and 150/150 respectively. Change everything! What could possibly go wrong? Marines should also have constantly decreasing life But seriously, I think Charge should only be 150/150 instead of 200/200. Zealots are useless against Terran until they become chargelots, unless the Terran opponent has no idea how to micro... and zealots are supposed to be the damage dealers in a zealot/ stalker/ sentry ball. Zealots may be useless without charge, but with charge they become really stong... they got about 2x DPS of a stalker and they die after 6 shots from a siege tank... this is why I think charge is not a thing you should get cheap ;] I agree. Is 150/150 cheap, in your opinion? (It's more expensive than any infantry upgrade, right?) How much is concussive shells again? Like 50/50? That's nothing. And the research time for charge is long too (plus the fact that you need a twilight council). Concussive shells is a quick upgrade that's basically free, and you get as soon as you have marauder tech. Charge comes at mid-tier tech, takes a while to upgrade (even with chrono boosting), and is currently one of the most expensive things a Protoss can upgrade... and it's for the first attacking unit it can produce! ::shrugs::
They originally wanted rauders to start with concussive and not have it be a research upgrade, but some timings apparently were too strong, hence bringing in concussive (I remember the change when I was in beta). Kind of like warpgates (same thing, they wanted toss to start with warpgates, but it ended up being far too strong). So more than anything else it's just there are a timing issue, while zealots aren't supposed to start with charge. Idk, I think charge is the last thing Blizz should buff right now, why are you going to buff the thing toss already uses the most (chargelots). It's not like it's a terrible ability that people are currently forgoing atm, buff other things like Immortals and warp prisms (oh wait...  ). Amulet +15 is fine by me as well.
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Conc is practically useless. It was too good when it could be used for cheese, but now marauder is really not super important early, and there are few types of engagements where it really shines.
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I really hope Feedback gets changed to "does not work on massive" like Neural Parasite. Losing huge and expensive units like Thors and BCs to a simple spell just because there is - practically - no way to use the energy without a spell and forcing a Terran to get several Ghosts just to EMP his own big units is just stupid. Neural Parasite at least has to be researched and isnt cheap to cast ...
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On September 13 2011 10:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 10:21 Belial88 wrote:
People stopped doing 3 gate expands in favor of FFE, not because roach/ling all-in is a good counter to it. What happens if the Zerg just throws down a pool first and decides to send out zerglings?
Is this a joke? What are you talking about? 6 pool is owned by anything Protoss does, and any pool timing is held off by zealot wall-off. What in the world are you referring to
f you're a progamer and you casually read balance threads but avoid posting just to keep away from attention and drama, could you please take a small amount of your time and tell this guy he is full of shit.
You don't need to an asshole. I've reached Masters with both random and Zerg, so I know just a little bit of what I'm talking about. Roach/Ling all-in is easily held off with 3 gate sentry expand.
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On September 13 2011 10:21 Belial88 wrote:
You don't need to an asshole. I've reached Masters with both random and Zerg, so I know just a little bit of what I'm talking about. Roach/Ling all-in is easily held off with 3 gate sentry expand.
To be perfectly honest, I agree with him. It's getting rather tiresome reading your posts when you clearly don't understand the current Protoss metagame and are seemingly intent on spewing the same rhetorical garbage at length in every single post. If you want to criticise current Protoss play, that's fine - but at least offer some reasonable alternatives to the current standard builds.
Also, the point isn't that roach/ling is defendable with 3gate sentry expand - it's the fact that to actually defend it with a 3gate you must wait significantly longer to place down your expo in order to be safe. So long, in fact, that if the Zerg plays standard, you are behind.
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^ Zerg can't both play standard, and roach/ling all-in at the same time. A roach/ling all-in for 3 gate cuts drones around 20 (as opposed to say, losira style which makes warren at 35 and cuts around 38 drones). If Zerg goes roach/ling, even if he just makes 8 roaches for pressure, he will be significantly far behind against a Protoss who just has to wait from 30 supply to 40 supply to expand.
But MC's 1 gate FE stargate is a good alternative. So is 1 gate FE, 1 gate FE forge.
It's not like Protoss started to suddenly lose a lot of games going 3 gate sentry expand. Your far and ahead if Zerg does roach/ling aggression against a 3 gate sentry expand, or at least even (for arguments sake).
There are plenty of replays where Protoss goes 3 gate sentry expand. You'll see both races will be on 2 base for a long time, because Zerg is not safe to take a third. There are plenty of games where Protoss holds aggression, and loses to it, but it is far from a BO loss to 3 gate sentry expand against aggression.
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On September 13 2011 12:15 Belial88 wrote:
^ Zerg can't both play standard, and roach/ling all-in at the same time.
Which would be fine if you could actually tell reliably if roach/ling is incoming. Hallucination does not come out quickly enough to scout the all-in and prepare for it.
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EPT
