Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 842

On December 18 2013 01:04 Xequecal wrote:
EMP is honestly the worst designed ability in the game. It's way too good against bad/mediocre players but not good enough against good ones. If you're a mediocre Terran against a mediocre Protoss, you can still counter his entire tech path with one spell from one unit - because he doesn't have the APM to keep them split.

On December 18 2013 06:37 SC2Toastie wrote:

Does that decision making involve picking the right race at the start of the game :D?

I don't think it is possible to claim Protoss has more decisionmaking than the other races... It's unmeasurable.

On December 18 2013 07:47 TurboMaN wrote:


Protoss can choose from a wide range of allins to beat a Terran or he can go for a lategame and beat a Terran. Those are his choices

On December 18 2013 07:31 DinoMight wrote:


"..I just have too much self-respect to play as a race as broken as toss"

Rofl.

People like you who equate playing terran to fucking buying your coffee from the local store are the worst kind of "little kid" on TL.

If you want to switch races, you're free to do so. But if you're going to insult Protoss players doing it by implying that we have no self respect, people are going to get mad at you and you just have to deal with it.

On December 18 2013 07:50 DinoMight wrote:


Conversely, Terran can choose to balance whine at the beginning of the game instead of GLHF or at the end as he is getting annihilated by Storms and Colossus. He can use his higher APM to lift buildings and float them to the corners of the map while he rages about how imba protoss is at the same time

On December 18 2013 07:59 Survivor61316 wrote:

Ok first of all I hate coffee..and idk if youve been reading everything thats been posted on this forum, but I am far from the only one who thinks that protoss is an easy to use, low-skill ceiling, terribly designed race. Particularly in PvT..deathball with storms and colossi is so brainlessly easy its sickening to even watch anymore. Even Demuslim, a notoriously well mannered guy, was talking about how broken the MU is on his stream just 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately there's nothing that can really be done to balance it because then PvZ would be broken instead, hence the reason for switching races. And really, if youre gonna sit there and try to tell me that Toss isnt op then yes, I am going to continue to question whether you have self respect or not; brotoss fanboys are just as bad now as patch zergs were at the end of WOL..I'm just waiting for someone to finally pull a ryung and throw up an "IMBA IMBA IMBA..."

On December 18 2013 08:09 DinoMight wrote:


I played Protoss in 1998 when StarCraft came out. I played Protoss when Brood War came out and until StarCraft 2. I played Protoss through the GomTvT era when 1/1/1 dominated the matchup and everyone was complaining. I played Protoss through the patchzerg era and Infestor/Brood Lord days where it was "allin or die to Brood Lords." I played Protoss through the Hots beta and early Hots when widow mine and Hellbat drops were imba as fuck. And I still play Protoss now, when finally, Protoss seems to be the race to hate.

You may think that because you play Terran in a "tough time for Terran" that makes you special shit, but keep in mind that this back and forth between the races has been going on for a long time. And to say someone has no self respect because they play a race that is strong now is dumb, especially if they played it when it was statistically, BY FAR, the worst race.

On December 18 2013 08:21 playa wrote:
I, for one, would love for toss to not be able to execute any all-ins. As someone that hasn't even 4 gated before, not only could I care less if it were impossible for toss to all-in, but after every game, I now have to get berated because players are so but hurt over things that happened to them in other games...

If anyone can have GM p vs p by cannon rushing or GM level p vs t by making the decision to do blink all-ins, it probably should be nerfed. It should be harder than a simple decision to do an all-in strategy.

That said, I hope mech gets nerfed. I have no idea why players don't play mech in t vs p or how they lose when they do, and this is coming from someone that may have lost to it 3 times prepatch/buff. Free 3-3 on air units? Are you serious? You have to make air units to beat anyone half decent... if you can't win air fights with that kinda advantage.

I'm pretty sure toss players could switch to terran and get GM if they decided to mech. It wouldn't be an accomplishment either.

On December 18 2013 08:24 Survivor61316 wrote:

You give your entire starcraft gaming pedigree and have the gull to say that I think I'm special?? I'm under no such illusion bro, although you clearly seem to think your shit dont stink. The balance problems in TvP go back to WOL man, and have only been further exacerbated by the MSC. The widow mines havent been balanced since you say they were "imba as fuck" which would logically argue that it was less about being imba and more about toss adapting (which they have done marvelously), and hellbat drops were much more of a problem in the other MUs than in PvT. Even so, that was a small reprieve for Terrans during a lengthy time where Toss has been favored in the MU. In WOL it was close enough not to constitute a real problem (i.e. it was in acceptable parameters of balance) but to argue that it's still not a problem is ridiculous. Go back and watch the Bo5 between Huk and Polt last night if you want a perfect example of this; Huk, who is clearly a lower caliber player than Polt, should never take that to game 5, particularly in such a convincing fashion.

On December 18 2013 08:31 DinoMight wrote:


Lol. So when something Terran is "imba" Protoss has to adapt. But when something Protoss is imba, Terran continues to do the same exact Rax, CC, 2 more rax into 3rd CC build order they've been doing since the 1/1/1 went out of style? And then whines about it?

How about you adapt. Bro.

Also, telling me that something is clearly imba because HuK lost to Polt is a stupid argument. In all sports there are upsets. I think if you look at Polt's lifetime win rate vs. HuK and other players it's obvious who the better player is, race aside. The fact that HuK made one match close is meaningless.

On December 18 2013 08:27 Survivor61316 wrote:

Just watch avilo or painuser try to mech vs toss and you'll see why people dont do it.

In fact just a day or two ago mech was actually working vs toss for painuser and he was shocked as shit...until toss maxed with like 10 immortals and just steamrolled his army.

On December 18 2013 08:36 playa wrote:


Watch avilo do it? Please don't troll. There are 0 good players trying to mech. Ofc they're not going to do it anywhere near proper. Mario is the best, atm (on NA)...Bad players are trying to mech, and they still can do it at the GM level. If a good terran were to actually try to mech, you might be surprised.

Free 3-3 is an absolutely huge deal. I get more excited over wins against mech than anything else, because it's no where close to balance.

On December 18 2013 08:24 Survivor61316 wrote:

You give your entire starcraft gaming pedigree and have the gull to say that I think I'm special?? I'm under no such illusion bro, although you clearly seem to think your shit dont stink. The balance problems in TvP go back to WOL man, and have only been further exacerbated by the MSC. The widow mines havent been balanced since you say they were "imba as fuck" which would logically argue that it was less about being imba and more about toss adapting (which they have done marvelously), and hellbat drops were much more of a problem in the other MUs than in PvT. Even so, that was a small reprieve for Terrans during a lengthy time where Toss has been favored in the MU. In WOL it was close enough not to constitute a real problem (i.e. it was in acceptable parameters of balance) but to argue that it's still not a problem is ridiculous. Go back and watch the Bo5 between Huk and Polt last night if you want a perfect example of this; Huk, who is clearly a lower caliber player than Polt, should never take that to game 5, particularly in such a convincing fashion.

On December 18 2013 08:54 Wingblade wrote:


You've basically lost the argument when you say PvT was actually in favor of Protoss in WoL. If a Protoss got to the late game in a WINNABLE, not even advantageous, WINNABLE position in a Wings of Liberty game then the Terran player had already been severely outplayed and deserved to lose. Now it's not that hard and we are starting to see a slight issue arise. This isn't Broodlord/Infestor or the 1-1-1 bad, not even close.

On December 18 2013 08:33 TheDwf wrote:

Your game knowledge is quite horrible if you think 1 rax FE into 3 rax Medivacs is still the standard build in TvP. Besides, neither Mines nor Hellbats were imbalanced in TvP anyway.


Except those "upsets" are all too common nowadays in PvX match-ups. Just in the last major tournament, Asus, we had Welmu one game away from winning Life in a bo5 and elfi winning 3:2 vs jjakji. You have to be blind not to see that pattern of inferior Protoss players winning or coming way too close (given the skill gap) against superior opponents. (And ironically, it seems it can also happen in PvP...)

On December 18 2013 08:39 DinoMight wrote:


I'd like to see someone like Innovation play nothing but mech in every matchup for a whole week straight. I think he's one of the most mechanically talented players, despite having quite braindead build orders and zero creativity.

I think with good harass to keep P busy and some early game Tanks on the high ground to defend it's viable. I think he has more than enough APM to do it. Free 3/3 on air is really good.

I've lost to mech a couple of times where the guy included a couple of ghosts and used them well. It's pretty hard to stop actually. Immortals die pretty fast to EMP/Tank/Thor.

On December 18 2013 08:33 TheDwf wrote:

Your game knowledge is quite horrible if you think 1 rax FE into 3 rax Medivacs is still the standard build in TvP. Besides, neither Mines nor Hellbats were imbalanced in TvP anyway.


Except those "upsets" are all too common nowadays in PvX match-ups. Just in the last major tournament, Asus, we had Welmu one game away from winning Life in a bo5 and elfi winning 3:2 vs jjakji. You have to be blind not to see that pattern of inferior Protoss players winning or coming way too close (given the skill gap) against superior opponents. (And ironically, it seems it can also happen in PvP...)

On December 18 2013 08:55 TheDwf wrote:

What are you even talking about...