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On April 23 2012 01:22 Durp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 21:34 50bani wrote:On April 19 2012 21:20 Gackt_ wrote:
I've been thinking alot about those sentry drops and those are actually something that is breaking down the game totaly vs a Zerg. I mean, it's like 90% of the times it happens the game is just over for the Zerg cuz the protoss is always so well walled in at home that he can defend a counterattack while he is dropping and forcefielding the Zerg's ramp.
Solution to solve this problem?
1. You can not FF on the ramp anymore?
2. You can not FF on the creep?
3. You can not FF on the ramp while there is creep there?
4. Remove the sentry in HotS?
Sometimes I think the unit is just breaking down the game vs Zerg in general, maybe not at midpro and play on ladder etc, but in the very top at GSL / MLG, people who actually understands the game the best, the unit is just too easy to handle and block out the Zerg progamers to ever win a game unless the Toss screws up with the FF. Nothing new to say, we all have known it for a long time, but people need to pay some more attention to this I think at least.
This Sentry vs Zerg needs more hype to make Blizzard take some action and solve the problem. 1. Destroys PvP 2. Destroys ZvP 3. ??? 4. Bingo! I have the same opinion, Sentries and Warpgates make the game hard to balance, and are pretty much the problem of all Protoss matchups, the game would be better if they removed them and rebalanced the game with small buffs for P if necessary. This would however change and reset the early game completely, which is something Blizzard may want to avoid at all costs. As Zerg is concerned, I do agree that this race makes no sense, units are too one dimensional, little to no synergy. So maybe Zerg should get a massive redesign, but with Protoss there might be something you can do without messing with early game. I will post this a bit later, maybe in it's own thread. There's no reason to remove the sentry and warpgate As per the rules of the forum, you did not consider the ramifications of your suggestions. What does Protoss do in PvP? (I'm sorry, saying remove warpgate and rework the game is NOT a viable answer). If you removed the sentry, aside from horribly breaking the ability to defend the cost-effective nature of roaches, it would make PvT impossible. The only reason as Protoss you can hold stim pushes (and even earlier bio pushes with concussive) is because you can forcefield terran units to trap them for your zealots. If you removed the sentry, you'd eliminate the viability of the forge fast expand almost entirely vs Zerg, or pretty much any opener that isn't a 4gate and wants to expand. (yes, SCBW didn't have the sentry, but it also didn't have larva inject for 40 zerglings 5 minutes into a game). Removing the sentry literally would destroy every matchup for Protoss, and require the race to be reworked from scratch. Let's at least keep suggestions viable
Ok, cut the forcefield time in half, make it a researchable ability, increase build time of sentries, ANYTHING to make them less OP early game. And, as you said, BW did not have sentries or anything like them, wasnt a problem back then, not sure why it is now. Like I said in my previous post, if you don't scout and make the appropriate units/wall off, etc you deserve to get punished, you shouldnt have some lame unit that prevents any sort of rush even if you dont scout it coming...
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On April 23 2012 01:25 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 01:18 Shiori wrote:On April 23 2012 01:06 teamhozac wrote:On April 23 2012 00:43 superstartran wrote:On April 23 2012 00:38 teamhozac wrote:4. Remove the sentry in HotS? Ding Ding! We have a winner! If the sentry isnt removed or if the maps dont change so that protoss cannot indefinitely keep you in or out of your base I will lose all faith in Blizzard Removing the Sentry would force Blizzard to drastically buff Zealot/Stalker early game in order to offset the loss of the Sentry. At that point you're going to have nothing but 4 gates/7 gates. Why would that force blizzard to buff stalker/zealot? Because it would be impossible to hold a medivac timing, 3 rax, and all kinds of other stuff without totally sacrificing economy. Your Terran bias is, as always, amusing. If you play greedy, dont scout, and don't make the appropriate units to deal with a push, (ie: spend all your chronoboost on workers) you deserve to get punished. You shouldnt be able to just spot the push coming up your ramp and FF it and be able to hold for entire minutes while you get out an army. Conversely, you shouldnt be able to camp outside an opponents base and keep them contained with no way to get out while you rape their natural or their main. Forcefields are broken, stupid, and unnecessary
What league are you in? Do you watch pro games?
3rax is a pre-meditated all-in. It's pretty much impossible to infer a 3rax except by a delayed expansion, which many pro players scout. Then, they mass up sentries and FF the ramp until they get Immortals. Unless you're expecting Protoss players to just blindly 3gate Robo every game in the off chance that the opponent 3raxes (instead of, say, 1-1-1ing) then FF is absolutely necessary. The fact is, until you get an Observer into your opponent's base, it's not really clear what he's doing unless he shows it to you. If it's a 3rax, you absolutely won't have a large enough army to deal with it, supposing you 1gate FEd (which is reasonable against a Rax/Gas opening and essential against gasless openings).
You cant just sit outside a Terran's base and keep them in, unless you 6gated or something or the Terran decided to play ultra passively. Same with Zerg.
Against Zerg, the removal of Forcefield means that Roaches in general will be impossible to hold in the midgame and Protoss will just have to 2 base Colossus like the old days.
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On April 23 2012 01:29 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 01:22 Durp wrote:On April 19 2012 21:34 50bani wrote:On April 19 2012 21:20 Gackt_ wrote:
I've been thinking alot about those sentry drops and those are actually something that is breaking down the game totaly vs a Zerg. I mean, it's like 90% of the times it happens the game is just over for the Zerg cuz the protoss is always so well walled in at home that he can defend a counterattack while he is dropping and forcefielding the Zerg's ramp.
Solution to solve this problem?
1. You can not FF on the ramp anymore?
2. You can not FF on the creep?
3. You can not FF on the ramp while there is creep there?
4. Remove the sentry in HotS?
Sometimes I think the unit is just breaking down the game vs Zerg in general, maybe not at midpro and play on ladder etc, but in the very top at GSL / MLG, people who actually understands the game the best, the unit is just too easy to handle and block out the Zerg progamers to ever win a game unless the Toss screws up with the FF. Nothing new to say, we all have known it for a long time, but people need to pay some more attention to this I think at least.
This Sentry vs Zerg needs more hype to make Blizzard take some action and solve the problem. 1. Destroys PvP 2. Destroys ZvP 3. ??? 4. Bingo! I have the same opinion, Sentries and Warpgates make the game hard to balance, and are pretty much the problem of all Protoss matchups, the game would be better if they removed them and rebalanced the game with small buffs for P if necessary. This would however change and reset the early game completely, which is something Blizzard may want to avoid at all costs. As Zerg is concerned, I do agree that this race makes no sense, units are too one dimensional, little to no synergy. So maybe Zerg should get a massive redesign, but with Protoss there might be something you can do without messing with early game. I will post this a bit later, maybe in it's own thread. There's no reason to remove the sentry and warpgate As per the rules of the forum, you did not consider the ramifications of your suggestions. What does Protoss do in PvP? (I'm sorry, saying remove warpgate and rework the game is NOT a viable answer). If you removed the sentry, aside from horribly breaking the ability to defend the cost-effective nature of roaches, it would make PvT impossible. The only reason as Protoss you can hold stim pushes (and even earlier bio pushes with concussive) is because you can forcefield terran units to trap them for your zealots. If you removed the sentry, you'd eliminate the viability of the forge fast expand almost entirely vs Zerg, or pretty much any opener that isn't a 4gate and wants to expand. (yes, SCBW didn't have the sentry, but it also didn't have larva inject for 40 zerglings 5 minutes into a game). Removing the sentry literally would destroy every matchup for Protoss, and require the race to be reworked from scratch. Let's at least keep suggestions viable Ok, cut the forcefield time in half, make it a researchable ability, increase build time of sentries, ANYTHING to make them less OP early game. And, as you said, BW did not have sentries or anything like them, wasnt a problem back then, not sure why it is now. Like I said in my previous post, if you don't scout and make the appropriate units/wall off, etc you deserve to get punished, you shouldnt have some lame unit that prevents any sort of rush even if you dont scout it coming...
I'm sorry, but it doesn't. If you're doing a 1base timing, even in spite of the sentry if it's unscouted for the toss you should still do some damage.
The sentry still costs 100 gas, which is a massive investment for Protoss in the early game. 100 gas on a sentry means you basically can't spend gas anywhere else. If they have tons of sentries, don't attack, and you can contain them. Sentries can't really kill anything, so it's going to be a while before they break their own ramp. Also, a one base protoss is really bad, so if they're sitting in their main, just defend and expand and claim your easy win.
I'm going to have to ask what your execution of the builds is like if a sentry in the main is changing game results. Also pro tip, you can actually scan the ramp and snipe the sentry if it's too close to the edge.
edit, guy above me explained PvT ramifications pretty well
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On April 23 2012 01:25 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 01:18 Shiori wrote:On April 23 2012 01:06 teamhozac wrote:On April 23 2012 00:43 superstartran wrote:On April 23 2012 00:38 teamhozac wrote:4. Remove the sentry in HotS? Ding Ding! We have a winner! If the sentry isnt removed or if the maps dont change so that protoss cannot indefinitely keep you in or out of your base I will lose all faith in Blizzard Removing the Sentry would force Blizzard to drastically buff Zealot/Stalker early game in order to offset the loss of the Sentry. At that point you're going to have nothing but 4 gates/7 gates. Why would that force blizzard to buff stalker/zealot? Because it would be impossible to hold a medivac timing, 3 rax, and all kinds of other stuff without totally sacrificing economy. Your Terran bias is, as always, amusing. If you play greedy, dont scout, and don't make the appropriate units to deal with a push, (ie: spend all your chronoboost on workers) you deserve to get punished. You shouldnt be able to just spot the push coming up your ramp and FF it and be able to hold for entire minutes while you get out an army. Conversely, you shouldnt be able to camp outside an opponents base and keep them contained with no way to get out while you rape their natural or their main. Forcefields are broken, stupid, and unnecessary
So to hold off your 3rax you want me to 4gate or worker pull. Got it.
I can't imagine Protoss being fine without sentries given their weak early game without them. Their high gas/low mineral cost just makes sense for early defense while taking a fast expansion. Consider other ways of winning TvP than early game pushes.
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Its simple forcefield costs 75 energy with an energy upgrade this stops complete trash from happening, but the main thing is late game instead of having 4 force fields a sentry would only have 3 a huge difference
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Hold on let me get this straight, a terran is saying it's unfair to be able to sit up a ramp and defend indefinitely? #wall?
Or wait, it's unfair to camp outside of an opponents base where they can't leave it safely? Hello, pot? This is kettle. You're black. I'd like to introduce you the siege tank
You know what the main difference is? Which also disproves your entire argument? Siege tanks and walls can be destroyed, forcefields can not. Also, you guys have warp gate tech, meaning any pylon/warp prism on the map you can warp in a an army of goons to go rape my base while I am "containing you"
Not to mention, unless the terran is 1/1/1ing you, siege tanks will never be used in TvP, and even if they are, immortals just roflstomp them
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On April 23 2012 01:49 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +Hold on let me get this straight, a terran is saying it's unfair to be able to sit up a ramp and defend indefinitely? #wall?
Or wait, it's unfair to camp outside of an opponents base where they can't leave it safely? Hello, pot? This is kettle. You're black. I'd like to introduce you the siege tank You know what the main difference is? Which also disproves your entire argument? Siege tanks and walls can be destroyed, forcefields can not. Also, you guys have warp gate tech, meaning any pylon/warp prism on the map you can warp in a an army of goons to go rape my base while I am "containing you" Not to mention, unless the terran is 1/1/1ing you, siege tanks will never be used in TvP, and even if they are, immortals just roflstomp them
I don't even know what you're arguing anymore. This argumentation is so disconnected from reality I'm not sure why you have it in this thread.
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On April 23 2012 01:52 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 01:49 teamhozac wrote:Hold on let me get this straight, a terran is saying it's unfair to be able to sit up a ramp and defend indefinitely? #wall?
Or wait, it's unfair to camp outside of an opponents base where they can't leave it safely? Hello, pot? This is kettle. You're black. I'd like to introduce you the siege tank You know what the main difference is? Which also disproves your entire argument? Siege tanks and walls can be destroyed, forcefields can not. Also, you guys have warp gate tech, meaning any pylon/warp prism on the map you can warp in a an army of goons to go rape my base while I am "containing you" Not to mention, unless the terran is 1/1/1ing you, siege tanks will never be used in TvP, and even if they are, immortals just roflstomp them I don't even know what you're arguing anymore. This argumentation is so disconnected from reality I'm not sure why you have it in this thread.
Speaking of great arguments lol... My point is protoss players cannot realistically be contained unless they want to be, siege tanks suck in tvp... and when did a wall off ever stop a protoss player from storming the ramp? Many times wall offs hurt the terran more than it does help them, not sure what you guys are on about
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Since this discussion about Sentries has resumed, I'd like to just say that the reason they are so disputed is that they remove the defender's advantage from the game. WG does the same. It almost worked, but not quite, in my opinion. I think it worked out pretty good in vT, kinda bad in vZ. The design of Protoss was creative, or out of the box, if I may say, on the part of the developers, but defender's advantage is the reason RTS gameplay is so rich and flexible.
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The main drawback I have with any discussion about nerfing forcefield at all is the current PvZ metagame. I can absolutely not see anyway protoss could play a macro game against the new style of midgame zerg with forcefield being any weaker than they are now.
I'm not a fan of the ability at all really, but the way that the game has been designed, it's entirely necessary in it's current state in my opinion. I haven't heard any suggestions to change it that wouldn't be totally game breaking in one way or another for protoss
On April 23 2012 01:29 teamhozac wrote:
Ok, cut the forcefield time in half, make it a researchable ability, increase build time of sentries, ANYTHING to make them less OP early game. And, as you said, BW did not have sentries or anything like them, wasnt a problem back then, not sure why it is now. Like I said in my previous post, if you don't scout and make the appropriate units/wall off, etc you deserve to get punished, you shouldnt have some lame unit that prevents any sort of rush even if you dont scout it coming...
and suggestions such as this are really the result of balance rage rather than lateral thinking.
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Force fields OP early game? Am I reading that correctly? Changing ff imo would be one of the hardest things to do; protoss relies on them SO much just to stay alive. I highly highly doubt you could nerf it without breaking the game. I think one of the leading factors for the growth in tvp (in terms of 2 base play versus 1 base, 3 baes vs 2 base, etc) is force fields. Terran early game is just stronger than protoss; marauders have more hp and kill stalkers 1v1, and they also have concussive shells which makes zealots horrible against them. The only thing that prevents terran from 1 base rax play against protoss is the use of force fields. Tvp is just too delicate.
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On April 23 2012 02:09 MegaFonzie wrote:The main drawback I have with any discussion about nerfing forcefield at all is the current PvZ metagame. I can absolutely not see anyway protoss could play a macro game against the new style of midgame zerg with forcefield being any weaker than they are now. I'm not a fan of the ability at all really, but the way that the game has been designed, it's entirely necessary in it's current state in my opinion. I haven't heard any suggestions to change it that wouldn't be totally game breaking in one way or another for protoss Show nested quote + On April 23 2012 01:29 teamhozac wrote:
Ok, cut the forcefield time in half, make it a researchable ability, increase build time of sentries, ANYTHING to make them less OP early game. And, as you said, BW did not have sentries or anything like them, wasnt a problem back then, not sure why it is now. Like I said in my previous post, if you don't scout and make the appropriate units/wall off, etc you deserve to get punished, you shouldnt have some lame unit that prevents any sort of rush even if you dont scout it coming...
and suggestions such as this are really the result of balance rage rather than lateral thinking.
How is making it a researchable ability or increasing build time a bad thing? It means it would take longer for it to be attainable early game (less abusive possibilities) but still readily available mid/late game pvz
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I am convinced that the people in this thread are either in silver league or don't play SC2. There is NOTHING wrong with sentries in terms of balance. Yes, they are a stupid unit that eliminates mirco and are capable of doing bullshit like FF your ramp etc but Senties cost 100 gas. They are BY FAR the most expensive unit in the early game and should be be strong. Also, if you nerf FF like making them not last as long, Protoss would need rebalancing completely. That race is built around the ability to land perfect FF cutting of segments of your opponents army or of the like.
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On April 23 2012 02:31 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 02:09 MegaFonzie wrote:The main drawback I have with any discussion about nerfing forcefield at all is the current PvZ metagame. I can absolutely not see anyway protoss could play a macro game against the new style of midgame zerg with forcefield being any weaker than they are now. I'm not a fan of the ability at all really, but the way that the game has been designed, it's entirely necessary in it's current state in my opinion. I haven't heard any suggestions to change it that wouldn't be totally game breaking in one way or another for protoss On April 23 2012 01:29 teamhozac wrote:
Ok, cut the forcefield time in half, make it a researchable ability, increase build time of sentries, ANYTHING to make them less OP early game. And, as you said, BW did not have sentries or anything like them, wasnt a problem back then, not sure why it is now. Like I said in my previous post, if you don't scout and make the appropriate units/wall off, etc you deserve to get punished, you shouldnt have some lame unit that prevents any sort of rush even if you dont scout it coming...
and suggestions such as this are really the result of balance rage rather than lateral thinking. How is making it a researchable ability or increasing build time a bad thing? It means it would take longer for it to be attainable early game (less abusive possibilities) but still readily available mid/late game pvz
How would Toss FFE? How would Toss hold 3rax?
Jesus, it's not abusable early game at all. Maybe in the midgame with a sentry push FFing the ramp you could argue that it's abusable, but not early. Containing a person doesn't mean making it physically impossible for them to leave their base. If I know that there's a giant Terran army sitting outside my base, it doesn't matter if I can technically walk down my ramp: I'm still going to be unable to expand (either way, if you have someone on 1base while you're on 2, you shouldn't be losing the game). Containing Terrans with a Sentry is by far one of the worst strategies/tactics ever, because it only works against 1-1-1 and possibly a delayed 3rax. Even then, it just delays the strategies; it doesn't win the game.
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On April 23 2012 02:31 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 02:09 MegaFonzie wrote:The main drawback I have with any discussion about nerfing forcefield at all is the current PvZ metagame. I can absolutely not see anyway protoss could play a macro game against the new style of midgame zerg with forcefield being any weaker than they are now. I'm not a fan of the ability at all really, but the way that the game has been designed, it's entirely necessary in it's current state in my opinion. I haven't heard any suggestions to change it that wouldn't be totally game breaking in one way or another for protoss On April 23 2012 01:29 teamhozac wrote:
Ok, cut the forcefield time in half, make it a researchable ability, increase build time of sentries, ANYTHING to make them less OP early game. And, as you said, BW did not have sentries or anything like them, wasnt a problem back then, not sure why it is now. Like I said in my previous post, if you don't scout and make the appropriate units/wall off, etc you deserve to get punished, you shouldnt have some lame unit that prevents any sort of rush even if you dont scout it coming...
and suggestions such as this are really the result of balance rage rather than lateral thinking. How is making it a researchable ability or increasing build time a bad thing? It means it would take longer for it to be attainable early game (less abusive possibilities) but still readily available mid/late game pvz
May I invite you to actually think the removal of Sentry/Forcefield in the early game through?
I, and most people over here, will not take you serious until you respond to this. By the way, the answers 'rework the game' and 'buff Zealots and Stalkers' are not acceptable, as the first one is, quite frankly, retarded, and the second was already rejected by you.
A few points of discussion:
PvP:
- 4Gate in PvP (he who warps in first, will win?)
- Dark Templar Defense without going Robo (Forces PvP into Robo only OR Dark Templar cheese. Nothing else is viable)
- Viabilty of Zealot/Archon armies with low archon counts (You need to catch the stalkers with Forcefield when Archon counts are low, so zealots actually deal damage, as charge has probably not kicked in yet)
- Pretty much the entire fucking matchup. (Speaks for itself)
PvT:
- Stim timings (Only remove sentries and going for any expand into any number of rax over 2 into stim into 1 stim attackmove on ramp makes TvP winrate 95%, the other 5% being misclicks)
- Split attacks with medivacs (as, you know, gateway units suck vs bio - how will Protoss go for the double fronts when his army is inferior?)
PvZ:
- How does Protoss expand vs Zerg without forcefield? (Lings are quite cost- effective verse lower numbers of zealots; Roaches (t)roll everything Protoss has that doesn't fly, Protoss can't expand because Zerg has the ability to just overpower protoss with low range high mass units, and you need to reduce the attacking mass to hold)
- Roachspam midgame? (even with FF this is a very hard thing to do in PvZ, The 12m max out with roaches kills protosses bigtime)
- Zerg on full map control all game until Protoss has air superiority OR a large ball of army (Zerglings are superior in small numbers on equal upgrades)
Thes are just 9 things to consider. I am probably forgetting tons and tons of very important things, but, as long as you don't prove yourself to be capable of 'fixing' the above points, you are not credible and in fact, just a whiner.
Remember; don't change Zealots/Stalkers and you can't change the entire race.
Cheers!
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no sentry force field = concusive shell imbalance. If you can't see that before typing something stupid, you are an idiot. There is simply no way for zealots to catch bio units without force fields, that is the whole point of them in PvT.
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my thoughts on sc2 atm.
marauders, roaches, and colossus should be removed from the game.
income rate should be decreased, maybe 60-70% of what it is now. Meaning you would need 4 expansions at least to be close to 200 supply. The way it is right now people can max anywhere from 11- 15 minutes, off 3 bases which will always produce boring death ball situations.
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On April 23 2012 01:29 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 01:22 Durp wrote:On April 19 2012 21:34 50bani wrote:On April 19 2012 21:20 Gackt_ wrote:
I've been thinking alot about those sentry drops and those are actually something that is breaking down the game totaly vs a Zerg. I mean, it's like 90% of the times it happens the game is just over for the Zerg cuz the protoss is always so well walled in at home that he can defend a counterattack while he is dropping and forcefielding the Zerg's ramp.
Solution to solve this problem?
1. You can not FF on the ramp anymore?
2. You can not FF on the creep?
3. You can not FF on the ramp while there is creep there?
4. Remove the sentry in HotS?
Sometimes I think the unit is just breaking down the game vs Zerg in general, maybe not at midpro and play on ladder etc, but in the very top at GSL / MLG, people who actually understands the game the best, the unit is just too easy to handle and block out the Zerg progamers to ever win a game unless the Toss screws up with the FF. Nothing new to say, we all have known it for a long time, but people need to pay some more attention to this I think at least.
This Sentry vs Zerg needs more hype to make Blizzard take some action and solve the problem. 1. Destroys PvP 2. Destroys ZvP 3. ??? 4. Bingo! I have the same opinion, Sentries and Warpgates make the game hard to balance, and are pretty much the problem of all Protoss matchups, the game would be better if they removed them and rebalanced the game with small buffs for P if necessary. This would however change and reset the early game completely, which is something Blizzard may want to avoid at all costs. As Zerg is concerned, I do agree that this race makes no sense, units are too one dimensional, little to no synergy. So maybe Zerg should get a massive redesign, but with Protoss there might be something you can do without messing with early game. I will post this a bit later, maybe in it's own thread. There's no reason to remove the sentry and warpgate As per the rules of the forum, you did not consider the ramifications of your suggestions. What does Protoss do in PvP? (I'm sorry, saying remove warpgate and rework the game is NOT a viable answer). If you removed the sentry, aside from horribly breaking the ability to defend the cost-effective nature of roaches, it would make PvT impossible. The only reason as Protoss you can hold stim pushes (and even earlier bio pushes with concussive) is because you can forcefield terran units to trap them for your zealots. If you removed the sentry, you'd eliminate the viability of the forge fast expand almost entirely vs Zerg, or pretty much any opener that isn't a 4gate and wants to expand. (yes, SCBW didn't have the sentry, but it also didn't have larva inject for 40 zerglings 5 minutes into a game). Removing the sentry literally would destroy every matchup for Protoss, and require the race to be reworked from scratch. Let's at least keep suggestions viable Ok, cut the forcefield time in half, make it a researchable ability, increase build time of sentries, ANYTHING to make them less OP early game. And, as you said, BW did not have sentries or anything like them, wasnt a problem back then, not sure why it is now. Like I said in my previous post, if you don't scout and make the appropriate units/wall off, etc you deserve to get punished, you shouldnt have some lame unit that prevents any sort of rush even if you dont scout it coming...
Sentries aren't really an issue. At least once you develop the skill needed to micro against them by splitting your units lessening the effecitveness of the FF.
I recommend that lower leveled players experiencing issues with early FF should either skip Stim and medics for a fast bio push with ghosts or open 2 Rax PvT and get a factory with tanks after the CC. People forget how good tanks with bio is in the earlygame.
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Apparently every protoss player on the site had their cornflakes pissed in this morning... You jokers need to calm down, I am offering suggestions to make sentry less abusable/annoying, not try and take it completely out of the game. I understand it has its purposes in the game, but it is a stupid, micro killing, and a hugely forgiving aspect of the game that needs to be looked at.
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If people want warpgate to ever become balanced and add back in the dynamic of defender's advantage to Protoss in all three match-ups there is a very simple solution that blizzard can implement to Heart of the Swarm that will make it impossible to do random warp-gate all-ins across the entire map.
And no, it's not really arguable that warp-in is balanced - it defies one of the principle concepts of wargames which is travel distance.
To keep warp-in in the game to allow Protoss their unique race advantage but not make it overwhelming in lategame or too good with all-ins like it currently is Blizzard can do the following things.
Blizzard can make it so Protoss is only allowed to warp-in units in proximity to their nexus's or the gateways themselves. They can add in a late-game research/upgrade that allows protoss players to build a pylon and pay a cost of minerals/small gas cost to turn that pylon into a "warp-in pylon." What this does, is it still allows protoss players to abuse warp-in defensively, but now in mid-game Protoss players cannot randomly 2 base warp-in all-in without walking reinforcements across the map like a GOOD RTS game.
Of course, warpgate all-ins are still possible with use of the warp prism, which was the entire point of the warp prism in the first place, which is perfectly fine because then there is the investment of the robo + a warp prism, which inherently also makes protoss mass gate all-ins easier to scout.
This also fixes PvP making it possible to play games that aren't mostly 1 base vs 1 base because now reinforcements have to cross the entire map to reach the opponent, giving that defender's advantage...back to the defender.
Blizzard can fix warp-gate in a way like this and they know it is broken, but whether they "fix" it and add defender's advantage back into the game is up to them. Building a 100 mineral building allowing instant reinforcements is the key reason why PvP is such a trash match-up, PvT has problems lategame as well simply because of warping in chargelots, along with mid-game problems in terms of dice rolling gateway all-ins that have instant reinforcements and are very forgiving for the protoss player. PvZ warp-gate all-ins are also very easy to execute. So making it necessary to build a warp prism to do these all-ins, along with forcing protoss to walk reinforcements to battles...it just fixes the entire issue with warp-in.
And then Blizzard can decide if they want to allow protoss to build a 100 mineral building to upgrade lategame to allow warp-ins across the map that defy every RTS principle.
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EPT
