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On January 26 2016 11:13 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 11:08 Thieving Magpie wrote:
What do you call it when the actual results does not match public opinion of the results and then the public whines about it? Democracy
Shots fired 
Perfect hit
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On January 26 2016 10:05 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 08:02 RavingRaver wrote:
Out of curiosity. What do you guys generally think the state of the match ups are? Judging by what the balance team has been stating, "TvP is P favored, TvZ is even and ZvP is unknown due to mixed feedback. I generally agree with the balance team's thoughts on balance, but I'm curious to hear input from others in this forum. The most balanced view you'll get is likely " z > p > t > z ". How much each one beats the other is hotly debated, and some of those > turn into = for some people, but that's the gist.
Thanks, that sounds about right. My belief is that it's Z > P > T = Z. I've seen your suggestion thrown around before though.
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Oh my god, GSL code A PvT is 2/3 in favour of P. And it will forever remain so under the current patch.
+ Show Spoiler +Of course, this shouldn't be taken seriously. Just couldn't resist making fun of the people using two series as data before.
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On January 26 2016 11:14 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 00:32 MperorM1 wrote:On January 25 2016 23:36 _Croc wrote:The siegetank has to be buffed today! Blizzard must hurry before every last remaining terran leaves. That was quite an overstatement... but I want this to be patched. # This is the idea: Blizzard should make the tanks become unsieged when picked up in medivacs. There is just no way that a sieged tank should be able to fly in a medivac! The tankivac is an insult to the siegetank. The siegetank should not be able to boost around faster than a stimmed marine! This completely destroys the identity of the siege tank and should be reverted. Then Blizzard should add the good old maelstorm rounds back as an upgrade at the techlab which costs 150/150 (or 100/100) that increases the damage dealt by the tank. Maelstorm rounds:
Siege Tank's Crucio Shock Cannon deals +40 damage to primary target. Splash damage remains the same. They should also make the tank shoot a projectile (like the marauder) so they will overkill targets slightly. That would make tanks more effective in small numbers while not making them completely overpowered in large numbers. Sorry for bad English. I am crying for this to happen and I will not start to play again until I know I can trust the tank against the new threats: adepts, ravagers, ...the list goes on. It was not me that came up with all these ideas but I think they are good ideas so I will share them here! This will make tanks good again and bring the positional mech back! Thanks for reading! // _Croc EDIT: mealstorm rounds and unsigned tanks... I wasn't quite paying attention when writing this. I have now fixed the spelling mistakes. And where do we nerf terran so that the race remains balanced? You have poor reading comprehension
Step 1. Deny any fact that hurts Terran or helps other races
Step 2. Bash any user who proceeds with Step 1.
Step 3. Advocate hard for Terran even when it's OP so that it receives buffs
Step 4. Rinse and repeat. Report any TL user who seems even remotely close to Step 1.
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After just having watched a bad terran wreck Neeb two times in a row with a 2-base marine + tankivac all-in, I've decided to stop playing and watching this game until it has some resemblance of balance.
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On February 22 2016 11:55 CheddarToss wrote:
After just having watched a bad terran wreck Neeb two times in a row with a 2-base marine + tankivac all-in, I've decided to stop playing and watching this game until it has some resemblance of balance.
i was kind of surprised that nate called it cheese? I don't play at GM level so maybe you guys can comment here.
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On February 02 2016 02:20 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 11:14 Lexender wrote:On January 26 2016 00:32 MperorM1 wrote:On January 25 2016 23:36 _Croc wrote:The siegetank has to be buffed today! Blizzard must hurry before every last remaining terran leaves. That was quite an overstatement... but I want this to be patched. # This is the idea: Blizzard should make the tanks become unsieged when picked up in medivacs. There is just no way that a sieged tank should be able to fly in a medivac! The tankivac is an insult to the siegetank. The siegetank should not be able to boost around faster than a stimmed marine! This completely destroys the identity of the siege tank and should be reverted. Then Blizzard should add the good old maelstorm rounds back as an upgrade at the techlab which costs 150/150 (or 100/100) that increases the damage dealt by the tank. Maelstorm rounds:
Siege Tank's Crucio Shock Cannon deals +40 damage to primary target. Splash damage remains the same. They should also make the tank shoot a projectile (like the marauder) so they will overkill targets slightly. That would make tanks more effective in small numbers while not making them completely overpowered in large numbers. Sorry for bad English. I am crying for this to happen and I will not start to play again until I know I can trust the tank against the new threats: adepts, ravagers, ...the list goes on. It was not me that came up with all these ideas but I think they are good ideas so I will share them here! This will make tanks good again and bring the positional mech back! Thanks for reading! // _Croc EDIT: mealstorm rounds and unsigned tanks... I wasn't quite paying attention when writing this. I have now fixed the spelling mistakes. And where do we nerf terran so that the race remains balanced? You have poor reading comprehension Step 1. Deny any fact that hurts Terran or helps other races Step 2. Bash any user who proceeds with Step 1. Step 3. Advocate hard for Terran even when it's OP so that it receives buffs Step 4. Rinse and repeat. Report any TL user who seems even remotely close to Step 1.
Are you talking about yourself now?
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On February 22 2016 12:06 90ti wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2016 11:55 CheddarToss wrote:
After just having watched a bad terran wreck Neeb two times in a row with a 2-base marine + tankivac all-in, I've decided to stop playing and watching this game until it has some resemblance of balance. i was kind of surprised that nate called it cheese? I don't play at GM level so maybe you guys can comment here.
CheddarToss calls it an all-in too, which it is, 2 base kind. Kind of like 2 base blink-stalker all-in from HotS. Looking at state dismantle KoMA rightnow, it's clearly not a matter of balance.
But hey, people like CheddarToss won't be happy until top terrans only barely make it into ro16 GSL.
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Koma has like 400 APM, and was high GM as like a 10 year old (slight exaggeration). Koma, Neeb, and Intense were probably the most talented Terrans in NA. To act like he shouldn't be capable of beating Neeb in a BO 3, unless due to balance, is just weird. Should Neeb win more games than not, sure, but it's just 1 series..
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On February 22 2016 11:55 CheddarToss wrote:
After just having watched a bad terran wreck Neeb two times in a row with a 2-base marine + tankivac all-in, I've decided to stop playing and watching this game until it has some resemblance of balance.
Ouch man...
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On February 22 2016 13:41 KoMA_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2016 11:55 CheddarToss wrote:
After just having watched a bad terran wreck Neeb two times in a row with a 2-base marine + tankivac all-in, I've decided to stop playing and watching this game until it has some resemblance of balance. Ouch man...
You played pretty well man <3 State wrecked you pretty hard but that will be lost on biased balance whiners.
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On February 22 2016 12:13 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2016 02:20 parkufarku wrote:On January 26 2016 11:14 Lexender wrote:On January 26 2016 00:32 MperorM1 wrote:On January 25 2016 23:36 _Croc wrote:The siegetank has to be buffed today! Blizzard must hurry before every last remaining terran leaves. That was quite an overstatement... but I want this to be patched. # This is the idea: Blizzard should make the tanks become unsieged when picked up in medivacs. There is just no way that a sieged tank should be able to fly in a medivac! The tankivac is an insult to the siegetank. The siegetank should not be able to boost around faster than a stimmed marine! This completely destroys the identity of the siege tank and should be reverted. Then Blizzard should add the good old maelstorm rounds back as an upgrade at the techlab which costs 150/150 (or 100/100) that increases the damage dealt by the tank. Maelstorm rounds:
Siege Tank's Crucio Shock Cannon deals +40 damage to primary target. Splash damage remains the same. They should also make the tank shoot a projectile (like the marauder) so they will overkill targets slightly. That would make tanks more effective in small numbers while not making them completely overpowered in large numbers. Sorry for bad English. I am crying for this to happen and I will not start to play again until I know I can trust the tank against the new threats: adepts, ravagers, ...the list goes on. It was not me that came up with all these ideas but I think they are good ideas so I will share them here! This will make tanks good again and bring the positional mech back! Thanks for reading! // _Croc EDIT: mealstorm rounds and unsigned tanks... I wasn't quite paying attention when writing this. I have now fixed the spelling mistakes. And where do we nerf terran so that the race remains balanced? You have poor reading comprehension Step 1. Deny any fact that hurts Terran or helps other races Step 2. Bash any user who proceeds with Step 1. Step 3. Advocate hard for Terran even when it's OP so that it receives buffs Step 4. Rinse and repeat. Report any TL user who seems even remotely close to Step 1. Are you talking about yourself now?
I see you proceeded with Step 2. I have a honest question for you. Do you even actually want a balanced game?
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On January 27 2016 09:54 RavingRaver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 10:05 aksfjh wrote:On January 26 2016 08:02 RavingRaver wrote:
Out of curiosity. What do you guys generally think the state of the match ups are? Judging by what the balance team has been stating, "TvP is P favored, TvZ is even and ZvP is unknown due to mixed feedback. I generally agree with the balance team's thoughts on balance, but I'm curious to hear input from others in this forum. The most balanced view you'll get is likely " z > p > t > z ". How much each one beats the other is hotly debated, and some of those > turn into = for some people, but that's the gist. Thanks, that sounds about right. My belief is that it's Z > P > T = Z. I've seen your suggestion thrown around before though.
ZvP don't seems very zerg favored, if you're looking prolevel.
Kor has very good protoss, and they're performing well vs Zerg.
Foreigner scene have only a few good protoss, so the winrates could seems "zerg favored" when you see avarage protoss facing Serral/snute/nerchio/peatraurs/firecake/elazer/tlo.
But lilbow and petitdrogo best matchup is vs Z.Harstem better at PvZ than PvT. Showtime/Huk has the same winrates vs P and Z.
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On February 22 2016 16:00 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 09:54 RavingRaver wrote:On January 26 2016 10:05 aksfjh wrote:On January 26 2016 08:02 RavingRaver wrote:
Out of curiosity. What do you guys generally think the state of the match ups are? Judging by what the balance team has been stating, "TvP is P favored, TvZ is even and ZvP is unknown due to mixed feedback. I generally agree with the balance team's thoughts on balance, but I'm curious to hear input from others in this forum. The most balanced view you'll get is likely " z > p > t > z ". How much each one beats the other is hotly debated, and some of those > turn into = for some people, but that's the gist. Thanks, that sounds about right. My belief is that it's Z > P > T = Z. I've seen your suggestion thrown around before though. ZvP don't seems very zerg favored, if you're looking prolevel. Kor has very good protoss, and they're performing well vs Zerg. Foreigner scene have only a few good protoss, so the winrates could seems "zerg favored" when you see avarage protoss facing Serral/snute/nerchio/peatraurs/firecake/elazer/tlo. But lilbow and petitdrogo best matchup is vs Z.Harstem better at PvZ than PvT. Showtime/Huk has the same winrates vs P and Z.
Can I just drop the aligulac balance report thread here?
actual balance stats
FYI, Z consistently beating P is the only signal, and a huge one at 56.4% win rate. ZvT and PvT both have win rates very close to 50%.
My experience from the thread was that most people just stuck to their ideas of which race was OP (hint: it was never the one they played themselves), and made up all kinds of reasons why the stats were not relevant (many of them are addressed in the linked thread). I expect to see the same here, but I figured I should give people a chance at least. You can lead a whiner to the data, but you can't force him to fairly interpret it. 
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On February 22 2016 12:35 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2016 12:06 90ti wrote:On February 22 2016 11:55 CheddarToss wrote:
After just having watched a bad terran wreck Neeb two times in a row with a 2-base marine + tankivac all-in, I've decided to stop playing and watching this game until it has some resemblance of balance. i was kind of surprised that nate called it cheese? I don't play at GM level so maybe you guys can comment here. CheddarToss calls it an all-in too, which it is, 2 base kind. Kind of like 2 base blink-stalker all-in from HotS. Looking at state dismantle KoMA rightnow, it's clearly not a matter of balance. But hey, people like CheddarToss won't be happy until top terrans only barely make it into ro16 GSL.
No, I won't be happy until easy to execute, but extremely hard to defend bullshit has been removed from this game.
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I can't take this comment serious when it comes from a guy with the name "CheddarToss"
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According to aligulac PvT is at 47% while PvZ is at 42.7%. The data is for February. Protoss has been far to weak in PvZ since October. I think that it's high time for some buffs to Protoss or nerfs to Zerg. 5 months is enough time to establish that Zerg is overpowered in in PvZ.
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On March 03 2016 02:28 CheddarToss wrote:According to aligulac PvT is at 47% while PvZ is at 42.7%. The data is for February. Protoss has been far to weak in PvZ since October. I think that it's high time for some buffs to Protoss or nerfs to Zerg. 5 months is enough time to establish that Zerg is overpowered in in PvZ.
To be fair Cheddar, we're only at -86 points in the performance graph, it's not that bad.
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On March 03 2016 02:28 CheddarToss wrote:According to aligulac PvT is at 47% while PvZ is at 42.7%. The data is for February. Protoss has been far to weak in PvZ since October. I think that it's high time for some buffs to Protoss or nerfs to Zerg. 5 months is enough time to establish that Zerg is overpowered in in PvZ.
Wow. Breaking news. After 2 heavy nerfs, Protoss is doing even worse than before. Who would have thought. Here I was like everyone else thinking Protoss winrate would naturally go up thanks to rocks and a natural becoming a gold.
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On February 22 2016 15:17 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2016 12:13 Lexender wrote:On February 02 2016 02:20 parkufarku wrote:On January 26 2016 11:14 Lexender wrote:On January 26 2016 00:32 MperorM1 wrote:On January 25 2016 23:36 _Croc wrote:The siegetank has to be buffed today! Blizzard must hurry before every last remaining terran leaves. That was quite an overstatement... but I want this to be patched. # This is the idea: Blizzard should make the tanks become unsieged when picked up in medivacs. There is just no way that a sieged tank should be able to fly in a medivac! The tankivac is an insult to the siegetank. The siegetank should not be able to boost around faster than a stimmed marine! This completely destroys the identity of the siege tank and should be reverted. Then Blizzard should add the good old maelstorm rounds back as an upgrade at the techlab which costs 150/150 (or 100/100) that increases the damage dealt by the tank. Maelstorm rounds:
Siege Tank's Crucio Shock Cannon deals +40 damage to primary target. Splash damage remains the same. They should also make the tank shoot a projectile (like the marauder) so they will overkill targets slightly. That would make tanks more effective in small numbers while not making them completely overpowered in large numbers. Sorry for bad English. I am crying for this to happen and I will not start to play again until I know I can trust the tank against the new threats: adepts, ravagers, ...the list goes on. It was not me that came up with all these ideas but I think they are good ideas so I will share them here! This will make tanks good again and bring the positional mech back! Thanks for reading! // _Croc EDIT: mealstorm rounds and unsigned tanks... I wasn't quite paying attention when writing this. I have now fixed the spelling mistakes. And where do we nerf terran so that the race remains balanced? You have poor reading comprehension Step 1. Deny any fact that hurts Terran or helps other races Step 2. Bash any user who proceeds with Step 1. Step 3. Advocate hard for Terran even when it's OP so that it receives buffs Step 4. Rinse and repeat. Report any TL user who seems even remotely close to Step 1. Are you talking about yourself now? I see you proceeded with Step 2. I have a honest question for you. Do you even actually want a balanced game?
You trash talk anybody who says anything against protoss and everything that has to do with protoss.
Also I don't really care about it anyway, most of my complaints are about the design and mech being not viable, don't really care about actual balance (as longs as its not to absurd)
But yeah your comment could totally be talking about you just change "terran" for "protoss"
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EPT
