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On August 14 2011 15:24 TheTrueAmerican wrote:Show nested quote +
So you want us to drop our longstanding loyal sponsored players to pick up an Academy player because they did *almost* as good at a LAN? Or if we have one player who has been committed and represented vVv for years and someone from the Academy places equal at an MLG we should drop the sponsored player to pick up the Academy player?
Like I said, obviously the Academy players would have to outperform the sponsored players in order to get picked up.
being a successful organization isnt about sticking with the same players because they are loyal no matter their results. if you can replace your current players with better players then you should do so -- if you want to make a more successful team. if you are just into helping out people who are nice and are pretty good then stick with who you have. but to say that academy players actually have to OUTPERFORM your sponsored players just to join the team completely goes against the point of what an academy is as we know it.
Absolutely, the key words being better players, not equal players.
There is also a lot of value in building a brand such as vVvTitan. The more value you build into that brand the more valuable it is, and the less likely you would pick up vVvJoeSchmoe to replace the vVvTitan brand.
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The aim of the academy is not clear in my eyes. Are you trying to pick up new players for the team? If so you should be more clear in the OP and more assuring of potential academy players that they can have a spot on the team when the deal is done. There is far too much demanding of dedication, without promising anything in return. As has been stated 100's of times, exact tournament placings have a large probability factor involved. The best player there is not guaranteed to win. You ask these players to shell out pocket money for a chance to join a second tier foreigner team. Not so classy.....
If this is more of a community-oriented training camp that may be used to scout for promising players, then it is a different story, but once again, there is a need for more transparency about what this program is about for people interested.
MOST IMPORTANTLY!!! In my opinion you all should answer peoples questions and concerns much more courteously than has been done so far. You are representing sponsors, many of these people are not. Take the high road
edit: I also don't understand why academy players have to outperform members. You act as if sponsoring a new player means kicking an old one out. All this talk about sticking with loyal members and building brands.....Notice how other teams recruiting is good for the whole team, such as when Liquid picks up a new member. It doesn't cut into the benefits of the other players as far as I know. win win!
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That's not what he means at all...
i was giving a situation in which most organizations are in. he was saying he doesnt want to drop current sponsored players just because academy players might perform better. which means hes not going to have the strongest team that most organizations try to get. which also tells me they arent focused on having the best team but the most "good" players as possible represent them for the least cost. more of a quantity over quality thing by the looks of it.
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I am totally confused as to this entire discussion. If people are interested in what vVv is offering here, they will contact them about it, I shouldn't even post but I can't help it.
If you don't think it's a good deal or don't fit the criteria that they are looking for ( it is their prerogative ) then how does it affect you in any way? Why even bother posting?
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There is also a lot of value in building a brand such as vVvTitan. The more value you build into that brand the more valuable it is, and the less likely you would pick up vVvJoeSchmoe to replace the vVvTitan brand.
i can understand and respect that, but look at where EG is with say LZgamer or even machine to an extent. they have a pretty good brand for themselves but not really pro players and some would argue they take up spots better players might deserve to have to make EG a really strong team.
brand names are important but to call anyone in vVv a brand name is kind of pushing it. so their spots on the team shouldnt be as concrete as you are telling us.
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On August 14 2011 10:11 lorkac wrote:
Sigh...
People who perform well in lans get paid
People who don't go to lans, don't get paid
vVv will only sponsor those who are already committed in trying to do well.
For example.
You don't get a burger from a restaurant until you pay for the burger first.
The lower quality burger "shacks" require you to pay before you get your item
"classy" resteraunts give you a bill at the end
I think we have made the the connection here.
I wont say it
But I will leave it to the people.
This. Oh and also, the whole academy thing just seems like bad advertisment to me. What you want is to get new good players in vVv so you started this "academy topic" to make it look cool. But seriously... you are just saying that you are going to do the exact same thing that every other big teams do, try to recruit known players that are probably already sponsored but who get less from their sponsors than you can offer them from yours. Anyway you just made it look like you know nothing about marketting. This whole post make vVv looks like a bunch of amateurs.
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This actually seems like a decent opportunity for amateurs to get better and start attending LANs. That said, the representatives of vVv in this thread have made some key mistakes. First, the OP was poorly and ambiguously worded. Had people understood that you're not going to be insta-dropped from the academy if you miss one MLG much of this shitstorm could have been avoided. Second, its not exactly good for your case to call everybody disagreeing with you a troll or an idiot. I agree with Diamond, if you can see that people don't understand your OP you should try your best to explain it to them, rather than saying that they're an idiot who doesn't understand business. All in all, if vVv learns anything from this experience, it's that they should keep their cool when dealing with a community on an open forum. Good luck to applicants and vVv!
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OK -- to give people a perspective on the academy, here's my story with the vVv academy:
I joined the academy as a community player about 2 months after it origionally came out. There was no cash or gear incentive for joining the academy, but only the promise of this: You will become a better player.
Now, for the definition of "better player." Here's just how much the academy changed my perspective on getting sponsored by any organization in Starcraft 2 (and esports). When I walked into the academy, I thought that if I reached a certain skill level I would be sponsored, people would throw money and gear into my face, and I would be a successful Starcraft 2 player. The academy's offering of structured practice (HOW LONG to practice, WHEN to practice, HOW to practice, and WHO to practice with) made me reach a considerable skill level. I am now currently practicing with a variaty of players from vVv, iP, the korean proteam Psw, ect. Well, I was in for a shocker. Here's a main thing that vVv taught me: Your skill level isn't the main component to getting sponsored. It's appearance. Let me explain:
Put yourself in the shoes of a sponsor. Let's just say steelseries since this is one of vVv great sponsors. When a player puts himself in frount of steelseries and asks to be sponsored, steelseries has to have solid information that the player will produce $ for steelseries. This money is made primarily for advertising steelseries gear at lans and primarily MLGs. Now, I'll put myself up to this test. I am a very good player, but have no lan achievements. For me to ask steelseries to give me gear and tranportation money to go to MLG, what assurance can I give them that I will suceed? There is none. Without steelseries having evidence that I will go to a lan and have success they have zero assurance that I won't just get knocked out in the first 2 rounds of the tournament. They also don't know if I will do or say something that will put steelseries in a negative light since they have no evidence of how I will react in frount of a huge crowd and possible live interview.
So, pretty much here's what vVv academy has done for me. It has increased my skill level considerably and improved myself as a player. I needed to clean up my attitude, and that was done by working closely with the managers. I also needed to advertise myself as a player in order to establish a fan base, and again the managers helped me A LOT in this. It has also made me clearly know what I have to do in order TO BE sponsored. So, if you're a player who has a lot of talent but wants to move to the next level and become a progamer and recieve a sponsorship, this academy is for you. If you're a player who wants to continue to just be a ladder pro, then this academy isn't for you.
As a last word of advice: You have to be extremely passionate about gaming, Starcraft 2, and improving yourself in order to enter the pro scene.
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so glon after all this time you arent sponsored by vvv correct?
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On August 14 2011 15:43 alphafuzard wrote:
The aim of the academy is not clear in my eyes. Are you trying to pick up new players for the team? If so you should be more clear in the OP and more assuring of potential academy players that they can have a spot on the team when the deal is done. There is far too much demanding of dedication, without promising anything in return. As has been stated 100's of times, exact tournament placings have a large probability factor involved. The best player there is not guaranteed to win. You ask these players to shell out pocket money for a chance to join a second tier foreigner team. Not so classy.....
If this is more of a community-oriented training camp that may be used to scout for promising players, then it is a different story, but once again, there is a need for more transparency about what this program is about for people interested.
MOST IMPORTANTLY!!! In my opinion you all should answer peoples questions and concerns much more courteously than has been done so far. You are representing sponsors, many of these people are not. Take the high road
edit: I also don't understand why academy players have to outperform members. You act as if sponsoring a new player means kicking an old one out. All this talk about sticking with loyal members and building brands.....Notice how other teams recruiting is good for the whole team, such as when Liquid picks up a new member. It doesn't cut into the benefits of the other players as far as I know. win win!
I apologize that the OP didn't clearly explain the benefits of the Academy and seems to just leverage unreasonable or burdensome requirements without explaining the benefits.
Currently we have 1 open spot for a zerg player and are actually over-filled for Terran and Protoss. So in terms of recruiting new players, it's not a huge goal. If we find new talent that's great, but realistically I doubt we will find the next DongRaeGu from Academy applicants.
We want serious committed players who want to improve and develop personally. This is the reason for the requirements. For example, we don't demand that you show up to clan wars even if you aren't playing simply to waste your time. We ask you to come to critique each others games and offer advice. That way when you DO play you can rely on the same support from other Academy players to help you with critiques on what you need to work on or what you did well.
Likewise the point of accepting new applicants is to provide motivation for Academy players to practice regularly and ensure that they don't lose their place.
I could go on for each requirement but it's almost 3 AM and I doubt I would do an adequate job.
There is no guaranteed spot for Academy members to join the sponsored team, everything is based on performance.
I don't feel that demanding dedication is excessive, since if you want to succeed as a player you will need a demanding schedule regardless.
I feel like I've already adequately addressed the point on attending LANs.
I think I have addressed peoples questions courteously and defended the organization in other situations where needed. I don't think sponsors would want vVv representatives to allow people to simply get away with saying negative things about the organization they back or that we exploit players when we do not.
edit: I also don't understand why academy players have to outperform members. You act as if sponsoring a new player means kicking an old one out. All this talk about sticking with loyal members and building brands.....Notice how other teams recruiting is good for the whole team, such as when Liquid picks up a new member. It doesn't cut into the benefits of the other players as far as I know. win win!
If it was a perfect world we would sponsor 300 players and cover all expenses and give everyone a salary. As it is our organization has a limited budget to support all of the competitive titles we represent. We have currently allocated resources for 6 sponsored players, and it's not up to me to determine whether that number changes. Ideally if we had good talent we'd take on additional sponsored players, but unless the organization sees value in doing so my hands are tied.
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Your position's understandable; I would totally apply if I weren't still in Diamond. Good luck with it, and I hope you *do* find the next DongRaeGu.
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On August 14 2011 15:46 TheTrueAmerican wrote:i was giving a situation in which most organizations are in. he was saying he doesnt want to drop current sponsored players just because academy players might perform better. which means hes not going to have the strongest team that most organizations try to get. which also tells me they arent focused on having the best team but the most "good" players as possible represent them for the least cost. more of a quantity over quality thing by the looks of it.
I do not believe this is an accurate representation of our goals. We obviously want the best players who want to represent vVv Gaming and are willing to do so with the resources we are able to provide. If a player develops in the Academy that we feel can do better than the sponsored team that would be a consideration for whether we kept a current player or took on the new one. This is all very hypothetical and difficult to say anything concrete at this point. Suffice it to say vVv wants to develop talent and will reward that talent for performance.
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On August 14 2011 16:03 igLeX wrote:
This actually seems like a decent opportunity for amateurs to get better and start attending LANs. That said, the representatives of vVv in this thread have made some key mistakes. First, the OP was poorly and ambiguously worded. Had people understood that you're not going to be insta-dropped from the academy if you miss one MLG much of this shitstorm could have been avoided. Second, its not exactly good for your case to call everybody disagreeing with you a troll or an idiot. I agree with Diamond, if you can see that people don't understand your OP you should try your best to explain it to them, rather than saying that they're an idiot who doesn't understand business. All in all, if vVv learns anything from this experience, it's that they should keep their cool when dealing with a community on an open forum. Good luck to applicants and vVv!
As you will see if you read this thread I used the proper terms where appropriate. If someone asked questions about how the Academy would work then I answered their questions. If someone made accusations of vVv exploiting players or talking generally negative about vVv in a thread meant to garner attention about the opportunity to join our Academy team I referred to them as trolls since that is what they are. I feel that you need to take a more balanced look at the responses in this thread as there were some serious accusations leveled against vVv where me responding by calling them trolls was the MOST professional way of dealing with them.
As for the vagueness of the OP I agree.
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United States22883 Posts
On August 14 2011 15:16 SugarBear wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 14:54 Hossinaut wrote:Well, originally I was going to post my personal opinion on the matter, but I think I'll let others speak for me. From vVvSweep + Show Spoiler +If you are going to try and be rude and a smart ass I would highly encourage you to ask an adult From SugarBear in one of his more offensive posts: + Show Spoiler + Actually, I sincerely apologize. I just realized how incredibly offensive it is to provide this opportunity to the SC2 community. I should have realized that people want to be stuck finding their own practice partners, finding contact info for sponsors, building their own fan base, and that every master level player is getting offers from top level organizations like EG and SK gaming left and right.
Oh wait. from iCCup.Diamond + Show Spoiler +Just for the record on the PR side of things (as I do PR and have done PR), repeatedly telling users they know nothing and you are too smart to explain it to them is not a good thing. From rei + Show Spoiler +@ vVvSweep
wow, I have been trying to defend you with every one of my post in this thread, now i feel like a dumb ass for saying all the unintelligent things when I was trying to help you guys out.
you really taught me a lot about being adult, and what it means to be smart, thank you so much on pointing out my mistakes. and you are right that I know nothing about owning a business, and i am no way consider myself an intelligent person, in fact I consider myself to be very stupid trying to be less stupid by getting help from others who are more intelligent than I am, such as yourself.
Again thank you for replying to me, i never thought someone as stupid as I am is actually worthy of the time you spend in typing out 6 paragraph of text trying to enlighten me. From Polskaa + Show Spoiler +
On August 14 2011 10:11 lorkac wrote:
Sigh...
People who perform well in lans get paid
People who don't go to lans, don't get paid
vVv will only sponsor those who are already committed in trying to do well.
For example.
You don't get a burger from a restaurant until you pay for the burger first.
The lower quality burger "shacks" require you to pay before you get your item
"classy" resteraunts give you a bill at the end
I think we have made the the connection here.
I wont say it
But I will leave it to the people. From ExO_ + Show Spoiler +
On August 14 2011 10:39 Jawmare wrote:
Hide nested quote -
On August 14 2011 06:09 vVvSweep wrote:
And I will not discuss the benefits and support vVv can and/or will provide in a public forum.
Sounds fishy
Nah that's standard practice for competitive e-sports right now. Unlike in sports such as football, teams do not generally divulge contract details outside of their organizations
(personal opinion INC)
Idk why anyone else hasn't commented on this being an issue. If SC2 wants to be an E-Sport, why isn't behaving like a real sport, where players' signings and salaries are widely known? Its pub and its good in my opinion- also makes it so the stronger teams survive while the weaker ones don't, which provides for higher levels of play, which is good. From TemplarRage + Show Spoiler +
On August 14 2011 05:47 SugarBear wrote:
Lots of feelings of entitlement so far in this thread. Are there any players serious about personal development in a structured environment who want to comment?
Are you implying that because we don't agree with your approach, we cannot possibly be serious about improving? Because I would love an opportunity like the one you're presenting. I'm in what seems to be a fairly unique position where I could probably manage to get myself to multiple MLGs this year, so I could fulfill that portion. But a lot of people aren't. I honestly cannot fathom how you and Sweep fail to understand that concept. I also cannot understand what makes you guys think that the approach you're taking ITT is at all in the best interest of this project.
From: Don't remember, didn't write it down + Show Spoiler + But wow. Wow, wow, wow the vVv representatives in this thread are dicks.
Quit being condescending, arrogant assholes to people asking honest questions about the workings and motivation of this academy. As a community we are entitled to ask questions and receive answers. If you think otherwise, don't bring your academy into the public light.
and another
On the other hand, a team trying to help and develop talented players who shown potential at the game is willing to pay their players and help them gain valuable offline lan experiences, even if said player don't show any results.
But then again, a person as intelligent as the vVvsweep, he has to be well aware of this fact, by even bring this up i'm actually insulting his intelligence.
He obviously has his reasons why he would propose for the players to pay for their own traveling to attend lan, and attending lan is a requirement to stay on the team. As for his reason, he need not let us know because there is no way someone as stupid as I am can even remotely come close to understanding the logic behind this complex business operation. Even if he were to try, it would be a major waste of time, and he has wasted enough time on me by even replying to my post which was trying to but unsuccessfully defend the honor of vVv. So if you read all that you have just read the compiled efforts of the thread up until now (the end of page 12 with vVvTime) and should probably have gotten the idea that vVv Gaming's representatives aren't very professional, nor is the deal they're selling very well thought out, especially when compared to this: On August 14 2011 14:21 Integra wrote:On August 14 2011 14:12 luckylefty wrote:On August 14 2011 10:47 RebelMusic wrote:
I have read the OP and the entire thread and I believe you have made an error. The word "Academy" implies a school or some kind of training or development. However your requirements to join make it very clear that you essentially already have to be a superstar to gain any value out of this association. Do you intend on taking a "good" player of say, I don't know, Destiny's caliber and turning him into Idra? If so who is going to do the coaching because no one in vVv has done anything worthy enough to call themselves qualified. Not to mention the fact that if someone were of said skill level, odds are they would prefer joining a team straight up and developing via practice instead of getting some phony b-tag rating where they have to jump through hoops at great personal expense. So really, what are you providing to potential applicants? OP suggests that you will be "eligible" to receive Steelseries equipment. Eligible? ELIGIBLE?!? You won't even commit to giving away a crappy keyboard and a mouse pad? This whole thing is a joke in my opinion from beginning to end. Proving yet again that vVv just doesn't get it. Back to the drawing board, boys. This is spot on in my eyes, great post. This was the first odd thing that you noticed about their post?
How about the fact that they are posting a thing like this in the normal forums instead of the sponsor forums. Or the fact that they decide to post their application process and what rules you must follow instead of all the great benefits you will get if you join. I mean you can get all this information on their homepage, why not used a sponsored thread trying to hype it instead, they should take lessons from InControl, he knows how to do this properly. /my post TL;DR, this is a TL;DR for the thread :D I take exception to your selective quoting of my post. Taking that paragraph out of context is highly unprofessional and I hope you take more care in the future not to misquote people.
I agree completely, Hossinaut's post was completely unprofessional and I'm rather disappointed in him.
For those of you interested in reaching professional poster status, I am opening the JBA Academy to cultivate the very best writing talent in the community and provide them with full sponsorships towards other message boards.
To qualify for this prestigious Academy, you must participate in at least two of the following mediums, along with your regular forum posting: Twitter, Facebook, Google+, Blogspot, Xanga and Friendster.
We will provide you with the tools and training to reach your fullest professional posting abilities, and for those skilled enough to complete the rigorous training process, a complimentary copy of Spybot S&D awaits!
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On August 14 2011 16:31 SugarBear wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 16:03 igLeX wrote:
This actually seems like a decent opportunity for amateurs to get better and start attending LANs. That said, the representatives of vVv in this thread have made some key mistakes. First, the OP was poorly and ambiguously worded. Had people understood that you're not going to be insta-dropped from the academy if you miss one MLG much of this shitstorm could have been avoided. Second, its not exactly good for your case to call everybody disagreeing with you a troll or an idiot. I agree with Diamond, if you can see that people don't understand your OP you should try your best to explain it to them, rather than saying that they're an idiot who doesn't understand business. All in all, if vVv learns anything from this experience, it's that they should keep their cool when dealing with a community on an open forum. Good luck to applicants and vVv! As you will see if you read this thread I used the proper terms where appropriate. If someone asked questions about how the Academy would work then I answered their questions. If someone made accusations of vVv exploiting players or talking generally negative about vVv in a thread meant to garner attention about the opportunity to join our Academy team I referred to them as trolls since that is what they are. I feel that you need to take a more balanced look at the responses in this thread as there were some serious accusations leveled against vVv where me responding by calling them trolls was the MOST professional way of dealing with them. As for the vagueness of the OP I agree.
I did read the thread but I think for the sake of PR you still shouldn't call people trolls (even if they are). This is analogous to Alex Garfield sending an apology letter to the coach of TSL even though he didn't think it was appropriate. The people you call trolls may deserve it, but in the end nobody cares about them. People care that you, as a representative of vVv, bashed someone in the community. To be clear I agree with you that the people you are calling trolls deserve it, but I think you should look out for yourself and not damage your public image.
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On August 14 2011 16:37 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 15:16 SugarBear wrote:On August 14 2011 14:54 Hossinaut wrote:Well, originally I was going to post my personal opinion on the matter, but I think I'll let others speak for me. From vVvSweep + Show Spoiler +If you are going to try and be rude and a smart ass I would highly encourage you to ask an adult From SugarBear in one of his more offensive posts: + Show Spoiler + Actually, I sincerely apologize. I just realized how incredibly offensive it is to provide this opportunity to the SC2 community. I should have realized that people want to be stuck finding their own practice partners, finding contact info for sponsors, building their own fan base, and that every master level player is getting offers from top level organizations like EG and SK gaming left and right.
Oh wait. from iCCup.Diamond + Show Spoiler +Just for the record on the PR side of things (as I do PR and have done PR), repeatedly telling users they know nothing and you are too smart to explain it to them is not a good thing. From rei + Show Spoiler +@ vVvSweep
wow, I have been trying to defend you with every one of my post in this thread, now i feel like a dumb ass for saying all the unintelligent things when I was trying to help you guys out.
you really taught me a lot about being adult, and what it means to be smart, thank you so much on pointing out my mistakes. and you are right that I know nothing about owning a business, and i am no way consider myself an intelligent person, in fact I consider myself to be very stupid trying to be less stupid by getting help from others who are more intelligent than I am, such as yourself.
Again thank you for replying to me, i never thought someone as stupid as I am is actually worthy of the time you spend in typing out 6 paragraph of text trying to enlighten me. From Polskaa + Show Spoiler +
On August 14 2011 10:11 lorkac wrote:
Sigh...
People who perform well in lans get paid
People who don't go to lans, don't get paid
vVv will only sponsor those who are already committed in trying to do well.
For example.
You don't get a burger from a restaurant until you pay for the burger first.
The lower quality burger "shacks" require you to pay before you get your item
"classy" resteraunts give you a bill at the end
I think we have made the the connection here.
I wont say it
But I will leave it to the people. From ExO_ + Show Spoiler +
On August 14 2011 10:39 Jawmare wrote:
Hide nested quote -
On August 14 2011 06:09 vVvSweep wrote:
And I will not discuss the benefits and support vVv can and/or will provide in a public forum.
Sounds fishy
Nah that's standard practice for competitive e-sports right now. Unlike in sports such as football, teams do not generally divulge contract details outside of their organizations
(personal opinion INC)
Idk why anyone else hasn't commented on this being an issue. If SC2 wants to be an E-Sport, why isn't behaving like a real sport, where players' signings and salaries are widely known? Its pub and its good in my opinion- also makes it so the stronger teams survive while the weaker ones don't, which provides for higher levels of play, which is good. From TemplarRage + Show Spoiler +
On August 14 2011 05:47 SugarBear wrote:
Lots of feelings of entitlement so far in this thread. Are there any players serious about personal development in a structured environment who want to comment?
Are you implying that because we don't agree with your approach, we cannot possibly be serious about improving? Because I would love an opportunity like the one you're presenting. I'm in what seems to be a fairly unique position where I could probably manage to get myself to multiple MLGs this year, so I could fulfill that portion. But a lot of people aren't. I honestly cannot fathom how you and Sweep fail to understand that concept. I also cannot understand what makes you guys think that the approach you're taking ITT is at all in the best interest of this project.
From: Don't remember, didn't write it down + Show Spoiler + But wow. Wow, wow, wow the vVv representatives in this thread are dicks.
Quit being condescending, arrogant assholes to people asking honest questions about the workings and motivation of this academy. As a community we are entitled to ask questions and receive answers. If you think otherwise, don't bring your academy into the public light.
and another
On the other hand, a team trying to help and develop talented players who shown potential at the game is willing to pay their players and help them gain valuable offline lan experiences, even if said player don't show any results.
But then again, a person as intelligent as the vVvsweep, he has to be well aware of this fact, by even bring this up i'm actually insulting his intelligence.
He obviously has his reasons why he would propose for the players to pay for their own traveling to attend lan, and attending lan is a requirement to stay on the team. As for his reason, he need not let us know because there is no way someone as stupid as I am can even remotely come close to understanding the logic behind this complex business operation. Even if he were to try, it would be a major waste of time, and he has wasted enough time on me by even replying to my post which was trying to but unsuccessfully defend the honor of vVv. So if you read all that you have just read the compiled efforts of the thread up until now (the end of page 12 with vVvTime) and should probably have gotten the idea that vVv Gaming's representatives aren't very professional, nor is the deal they're selling very well thought out, especially when compared to this: On August 14 2011 14:21 Integra wrote:On August 14 2011 14:12 luckylefty wrote:On August 14 2011 10:47 RebelMusic wrote:
I have read the OP and the entire thread and I believe you have made an error. The word "Academy" implies a school or some kind of training or development. However your requirements to join make it very clear that you essentially already have to be a superstar to gain any value out of this association. Do you intend on taking a "good" player of say, I don't know, Destiny's caliber and turning him into Idra? If so who is going to do the coaching because no one in vVv has done anything worthy enough to call themselves qualified. Not to mention the fact that if someone were of said skill level, odds are they would prefer joining a team straight up and developing via practice instead of getting some phony b-tag rating where they have to jump through hoops at great personal expense. So really, what are you providing to potential applicants? OP suggests that you will be "eligible" to receive Steelseries equipment. Eligible? ELIGIBLE?!? You won't even commit to giving away a crappy keyboard and a mouse pad? This whole thing is a joke in my opinion from beginning to end. Proving yet again that vVv just doesn't get it. Back to the drawing board, boys. This is spot on in my eyes, great post. This was the first odd thing that you noticed about their post?
How about the fact that they are posting a thing like this in the normal forums instead of the sponsor forums. Or the fact that they decide to post their application process and what rules you must follow instead of all the great benefits you will get if you join. I mean you can get all this information on their homepage, why not used a sponsored thread trying to hype it instead, they should take lessons from InControl, he knows how to do this properly. /my post TL;DR, this is a TL;DR for the thread :D I take exception to your selective quoting of my post. Taking that paragraph out of context is highly unprofessional and I hope you take more care in the future not to misquote people. I agree completely, Hossinaut's post was completely unprofessional and I'm rather disappointed in him. For those of you interested in reaching professional poster status, I am opening the JBA Academy to cultivate the very best writing talent in the community and provide them with full sponsorships towards other message boards. To qualify for this prestigious Academy, you must participate in at least two of the following mediums, along with your regular forum posting: Twitter, Facebook, Google+, Blogspot, Xanga and Friendster. We will provide you with the tools and training to reach your fullest professional posting abilities, and for those skilled enough to complete the rigorous training process, a complimentary copy of Spybot S&D awaits!
Ahahahahahah. Man this is too good.
Really looking forward to some more information/clarification put into the original post. vVv Hwaiting ^^
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I want to ask if only American players can apply or others countries are allowed too?
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On August 14 2011 15:05 SugarBear wrote:
So you want us to drop our longstanding loyal sponsored players to pick up an Academy player because they did *almost* as good at a LAN? Or if we have one player who has been committed and represented vVv for years and someone from the Academy places equal at an MLG we should drop the sponsored player to pick up the Academy player?
Like I said, obviously the Academy players would have to outperform the sponsored players in order to get picked up.
Define 'outperform' in terms of listing vVv's LAN accomplishments, so I know exactly which LANs to attend in order to reach said magical expectation. I'll make it easier, list a major online tournament win that isn't a team league.
In the end I honestly don't care, but I think this recruitment model has done good things for vVv by bringing you tons of attention (albeit almost 100% negative) when you had nothing else to promote. Brilliant job in PR, but the basic structuring of the proposed recruitment model is so flawed it's hard to take it seriously at all. You might as well just ask for each potential member to pay monthly dues to have the privilege of wearing the vVv tag and hang out with Time and Alej all day (which is so tempting I might just do it).
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On August 14 2011 16:05 Glon wrote:
OK -- to give people a perspective on the academy, here's my story with the vVv academy:
I joined the academy as a community player about 2 months after it origionally came out. There was no cash or gear incentive for joining the academy, but only the promise of this: You will become a better player.
Now, for the definition of "better player." Here's just how much the academy changed my perspective on getting sponsored by any organization in Starcraft 2 (and esports). When I walked into the academy, I thought that if I reached a certain skill level I would be sponsored, people would throw money and gear into my face, and I would be a successful Starcraft 2 player. The academy's offering of structured practice (HOW LONG to practice, WHEN to practice, HOW to practice, and WHO to practice with) made me reach a considerable skill level. I am now currently practicing with a variaty of players from vVv, iP, the korean proteam Psw, ect. Well, I was in for a shocker. Here's a main thing that vVv taught me: Your skill level isn't the main component to getting sponsored. It's appearance. Let me explain:
Put yourself in the shoes of a sponsor. Let's just say steelseries since this is one of vVv great sponsors. When a player puts himself in frount of steelseries and asks to be sponsored, steelseries has to have solid information that the player will produce $ for steelseries. This money is made primarily for advertising steelseries gear at lans and primarily MLGs. Now, I'll put myself up to this test. I am a very good player, but have no lan achievements. For me to ask steelseries to give me gear and tranportation money to go to MLG, what assurance can I give them that I will suceed? There is none. Without steelseries having evidence that I will go to a lan and have success they have zero assurance that I won't just get knocked out in the first 2 rounds of the tournament. They also don't know if I will do or say something that will put steelseries in a negative light since they have no evidence of how I will react in frount of a huge crowd and possible live interview.
So, pretty much here's what vVv academy has done for me. It has increased my skill level considerably and improved myself as a player. I needed to clean up my attitude, and that was done by working closely with the managers. I also needed to advertise myself as a player in order to establish a fan base, and again the managers helped me A LOT in this. It has also made me clearly know what I have to do in order TO BE sponsored. So, if you're a player who has a lot of talent but wants to move to the next level and become a progamer and recieve a sponsorship, this academy is for you. If you're a player who wants to continue to just be a ladder pro, then this academy isn't for you.
As a last word of advice: You have to be extremely passionate about gaming, Starcraft 2, and improving yourself in order to enter the pro scene.
Well this helps explain it a bit. The OP just makes me terribly confused >_<
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So, what has vVv done in competitive SC2 at this point? What are their top MLG/IEM/NASL/TSL places? I feel like I only see their members doing small cups.
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EPT
