EPTFairly soon Puma will be chilling in his own apartment, with a $40000 novelty cheque on the wall. He'll be jetsetting to foreign tournaments 3 or 4 times a year. I think other Korean players are going to take a long hard look at Korean versus American team management and wonder if they're working with the right people.
TiG Opinion Article on NASL Situation - Page 24
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
Fairly soon Puma will be chilling in his own apartment, with a $40000 novelty cheque on the wall. He'll be jetsetting to foreign tournaments 3 or 4 times a year. I think other Korean players are going to take a long hard look at Korean versus American team management and wonder if they're working with the right people. | ||
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Hikari
1914 Posts
- Instead of a rather expensive security deposit, how about some sort of an alternate guarantor system: you can either pay for $250 yourself, or have your team become your guarantor - that if you fail to appear w/o informing NASL the player/guarantor will be fined. In order to protect their names I have faith in the korean teams paying up for their players. ($250 is a LOT of money) - Deposit returned 60 days after the tournament ended seem a little long. When it comes to money (deposit and prize) I think it is best to get it over with ASAP. Will 2 weeks after end of tournament be doable? - MUST games be casted live? tbh: people can no longer tell if a game is casted live or from replays. NASL games go through a production stage so they are not really "live" anyway. Neither starting games @ 2am (and potentially sleeping @ 5am), or waking up @ 4am seem too healthy. Something played around 8:30KST = 19:30 EST = 2:30 CEST (i think) might be a little more reasonable. - I love liquid even more for paying oGs' deposit. With bonus credit to Huk for paying Boxer's deposit. The team has done everything they can to promote esports. | ||
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On August 13 2011 05:51 Defacer wrote: Some people are worried about the NASL, but this news actually makes me worry about the sustainability of some of these Korean teams. Fairly soon Puma will be chilling in his own apartment, with a $40000 novelty cheque on the wall. He'll be jetsetting to foreign tournaments 3 or 4 times a year. I think other Korean players are going to take a long hard look at Korean versus American team management and wonder if they're working with the right people. Bingo. Korean teams bitch about money a lot more than foreign teams, but they put their gamers up, feed them, and more. Maybe they need to find a more efficient way to handle money a la western gaming clans? i mean, if the money isn't there, forcing people to pay you isn't going to solve the underlying problem... | ||
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TheSilverfox
Sweden1928 Posts
The reason why the SK-oGs deal was made with NaDa and MC was because SK Gaming saw an opportunity to have MC & NaDa to play in international tournaments. This means that they also provide with flights, hotels and everything regarding this. It would really be in SK Gamings interest to pay for all of this and have MC play in this tournament. Because what's the purpose with the partnership for SK if "their" players like MC don't participate in these international tournaments? | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On August 13 2011 05:40 integrity wrote: o.k. hi i am a company. i just go screwed by a bunch of people and just because the market is new im just gonna bend over and take it. not saying they should sue them for all that sc2con is worth but make it aware to them that what they did is morally wrong. and this is my opinion. and as opinions go there is nothing wrong we me expressing mine The problem with the "it's my opinion" defense is that even though everyone is entitled to their opinion, some are just utterly terrible ideas. The idea championed by your opinion would accomplish nothing. It would "make it aware to them that what they did is morally wrong"? Really? Do you really think that's what suing them would do? NASL would pursue legal action, and the Korean SC2 teams would go, "Gee, this legal action really makes us realize the error in our ways. I guess we should shape up!" If you think that'll happen then you're simply delusional. What would really happen would be that it would utterly destroy Western-Korean SC2 relations. The idea espoused by your opinion would hurt the SC2 scene way more than help it. | ||
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Grr Arr Rawr
United States108 Posts
On August 13 2011 05:54 TheSilverfox wrote: I still don't understand how MC is in the list of players that are not participating in the NASL. It just seems so weird. The reason why the SK-oGs deal was made with NaDa and MC was because SK Gaming saw an opportunity to have MC & NaDa to play in international tournaments. This means that they also provide with flights, hotels and everything regarding this. It would really be in SK Gamings interest to pay for all of this and have MC play in this tournament. Because what's the purpose with the partnership for SK if "their" players like MC don't participate in these international tournaments? Yeah, I'm really curious about how that's going to pan out- this boycott by the SC2Con seems to directly conflict with several existing partnerships. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
it feels like a reaction upon counter-reaction deal when considering the travel stipend, deposit, and rearranged prizepool---which might not be all bad, but i can see it to be confusing or partly unnecessary although there would still be a lot to consider for NASL, from a glance, i think the players and teams would just feel much easier if NASL were to just guarantee the covered travel to and from without all the extra bells and whistles | ||
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Hikari
1914 Posts
It is quite obvious that the west have money but lacks skill. Korea has skill but lacks money. The west must also be willing to spend that money. Without good players, the scene will just be boring and die out. Koreans are good not just because they are born that way, they spend a lot of effort and sacrifices much to get to their skill level. (Compared to foreign players who are relatively casual and have extra curricular activities such as coaching). The west and Korean teams must find a way to work together. Doesn't Blizzard pay for travel expenses and accommodations for their invitationals? How about the upcoming blizzcon GSL finals? Who is going to pay for the tickets? I highly doubt it would be the players. Progamers are not just competitors in a tournament, they are also entertainers. Often time when you hire an artist of sort (ie: DJ to a party) you pay them to be there, and not tell them to pay themselves because "you get a chance to display your skills to the public and gain popularity, boosting CD sales". | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
On August 13 2011 06:11 Hikari wrote: @financial situation of Korean teams. It is quite obvious that the west have money but lacks skill. Korea has skill but lacks money. The west must also be willing to spend that money. Without good players, the scene will just be boring and die out. Koreans are good not just because they are born that way, they spend a lot of effort and sacrifices much to get to their skill level. (Compared to foreign players who are relatively casual and have extra curricular activities such as coaching). The west and Korean teams must find a way to work together. Doesn't Blizzard pay for travel expenses and accommodations for their invitationals? How about the upcoming blizzcon GSL finals? Who is going to pay for the tickets? I highly doubt it would be the players. Progamers are not just competitors in a tournament, they are also entertainers. Often time when you hire an artist of sort (ie: DJ to a party) you pay them to be there, and not tell them to pay themselves because "you get a chance to display your skills to the public and gain popularity, boosting CD sales". very good ^ ^ i agree completely, everyone will have to work together as much as possible ._. | ||
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Domination
United States1177 Posts
On August 13 2011 05:02 turdburgler wrote: in a time where almost every story out of korea involves their monetary issues they dont seem to value team and sponsor exposure at all. That's what blows my mind about this. At worst, you make no money (which you weren't doing anyways) but get a little exposure. At best, you win the tournament, you and your team look like ballers which may help you get sponsors, and you get paid. The only real downside I can think of is if you were in GSL because you would lose a week of training time. I don't know, it just seems like if you are struggling with finances you should take every opportunity to get your name out there but I guess I am wrong. | ||
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
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BaekHo
Korea (South)153 Posts
On August 13 2011 06:14 nanaoei wrote: very good ^ ^ i agree completely, everyone will have to work together as much as possible ._. I support this | ||
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forgottendreams
United States1771 Posts
On August 13 2011 05:50 Cyrak wrote: What do you mean? These hegemonic institutions (KESPA, SCIICon) have been part of Starcraft gaming in Korea for long enough that they seem irrevocably entrenched. I don't think it's a question of allowing it or not. Barring the scenario where these organizations cease to exist or have no sway they're going to have to be dealt with and they're probably going to act the way that SC2Con is right now. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, but it just seems like the reality that tournament organizers have to live in. I think the point is, yeah you can just sit back and say "Oh well, looks like GSL-MLG wins again and another league falls" or you can continue to purchase passes from independant events like HomeStoryCup, DreamHack and NASL and continue to lure independant Koreans like Puma and Rain to these tournaments which will in turn continue to tempt other Korean players to break out of SC2Con sponsored teams as they keep winning. | ||
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Grr Arr Rawr
United States108 Posts
On August 13 2011 06:11 Hikari wrote: Progamers are not just competitors in a tournament, they are also entertainers. Often time when you hire an artist of sort (ie: DJ to a party) you pay them to be there, and not tell them to pay themselves because "you get a chance to display your skills to the public and gain popularity, boosting CD sales". This is... I honestly don't even know how to respond to this. It's absurd. You have actually made the rest of us dumber people for having read it. In regards to Blizzard tournaments, as the owners of the game, it's all advertising to them. All the money they put in most likely comes out of their advertising budget, and is not expected to return a direct profit. | ||
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
Well it doesn't seem like you have many options to disallow it. The only recourse I see is trying to sue them for the deposit money since they signed the contract. You may also try to add monetary damages caused by them pulling out at the last hour and delaying the league, but any value you assign to this would be hard to prove. Considering you would have to go through international channels it hardly seems worth the time and money it would cost to do this. I'm curious as to how you plan to not allow it. | ||
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Silver777
United States347 Posts
I think you assume these companies have no budget at all and just spend money, when all the money is already set and spent months in advance. What you are suggesting is paying players $2000 ($500 more then Code A..........) for like 9 show matches, but that doesn't sound as fun at all and that sounds like a huge monetary loss for a business. The scene is FAR from developed to this extent and if money was this easy to come by Korean teams wouldn't be complaining about monetary issues. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
 We'll make an announcement within the next few days about our new list of players, etc! =D | ||
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On August 13 2011 06:18 forgottendreams wrote: I think the point is, yeah you can just sit back and say "Oh well, looks like GSL-MLG wins again and another league falls" or you can continue to purchase passes from independant events like HomeStoryCup, DreamHack and NASL and continue to lure independant Koreans like Puma and Rain to these tournaments which will in turn continue to tempt other Korean players to break out of SC2Con sponsored teams as they keep winning. Or you could think NASL is handling a lot of things stupidly and not purchase passes until they improve all their crap. Or just let them fold if they don't. There's no real reason to purchase a pass if you aren't impressed by the tournament. | ||
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Hikari
1914 Posts
On August 13 2011 06:20 Grr Arr Rawr wrote: This is... I honestly don't even know how to respond to this. It's absurd. You have actually made the rest of us dumber people for having read it. In regards to Blizzard tournaments, as the owners of the game, it's all advertising to them. All the money they put in most likely comes out of their advertising budget, and is not expected to return a direct profit. Maybe that is why blizzcon/the current invitations are free to watch over amazing directTV streams, while other leagues have a membership fee+commercials? On August 13 2011 06:24 Silver777 wrote: I think you assume these companies have no budget at all and just spend money, when all the money is already set and spent months in advance. What you are suggesting is paying players $2000 ($500 more then Code A..........) for like 9 show matches, but that doesn't sound as fun at all and that sounds like a huge monetary loss for a business. The scene is FAR from developed to this extent and if money was this easy to come by Korean teams wouldn't be complaining about monetary issues. The money is there. MLG has a pretty small prize pool for each pro circuit stop (was it $5k first prize compared to the $40k?) yet it still attracted high caliber progamers. The check might be small, but both the fans and the progamers LOVE it. Anyone who have been to an MLG event can tell you that they did not regret attending. Because this is still a developing market, is it even more important that people are willing to invest in it + promote its growth, instead of doing their best to milk it dry before it dies. @Xeris: so is there no more negotiation room/too late to get the Koreans back to the table? | ||
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