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On August 12 2011 10:02 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:59 Serpico wrote:On August 12 2011 09:57 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
NASL can't grow without Koreans. The competition would be a joke if it's not played by the best players. Oh please, if you had the best Europeans and Sen for example you'd have more than enough good players. Sooner or later it's just being snobby for wanting koreans or nothing. The level of play isn't that different if you could put more of the better european players in NASL. Naniwa and Thorzain, who are 2 of our best foreigner, didn't even make it in the first round of code A. The skill difference is getting bigger and bigger, you can't ignore it. :/
To be fair both were flying out of Poland to Korea and then playing their games within a day or two. And It wasn't like Thorzain got absolutely stomped (nani didnt look his finest to put it nicely). Thorzain misread a pretty cheesy opening and essentially could never recover in their crossfire game. And in the final game he moved what three tanks a little too far forward? He was playing toe to toe with Yugioh
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I am utterly disappointed in these Korean teams. I'm honestly surprised that NASL didn't hold onto the security deposit, given that it is designed to prevent late cancellations such as this one. On the other hand though I'm glad the foreigners now have a much larger share in terms of participation.
I havea question for NASL now - how are replacement players going to be found? Going off the qualifiers is IMO a bit unfair, given players could have lost to the higher ranked Korean players much earlier, and lost unluckily. Are there going to be new qualifiers? Or will it be invites? Or will you just go without them?
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Lol.
I wonder if Korea's lack of patience with NASL has anything to do with Pumagate at all.
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On August 12 2011 10:01 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 10:00 ch33psh33p wrote:On August 12 2011 09:56 dsousa wrote:On August 12 2011 09:53 Kazeyonoma wrote:On August 12 2011 09:43 L3gendary wrote:
The thing that makes the least sense is that korean players like ganzi, DRG, choya, and other non-invitees are willing to go to MLG for a chance to win 5k, and paying for the expenses themselves but this committee doesn''t want any part in the nasl when they are offered 2k per player + and a chance to win 50k.
It's not adding up... False. Ganzi, Choya, and other non-invitees like Alicia, were paid for by their own team sponsors aka SlayerS and FXO (and FXOBoss has stated that the cost to gain benefit ratios are slim, and that's why he's not sending any koreans to Raleigh, but will for Orlando). These teams have large enough sponsorships and money to be able to pay their own way through. Also, this doesn't include the prior frustrations regarding scheduling of matches for Koreans. DRG didn't pay for it himself the first time, he was part of the MLG/GSL exchange, so him, boxer, MVP, and MMA were paid for by that system. In this next MLG where DRG wasn't invited, but will be attending, he's being paid for by Complexity not team MVP probably. Remember, that outside of SlayerS, FXOKorea, and IM, I don't think most of the Korean teams make very much from their sponsors. oGs and Prime have local fried chicken sponsorships that probably just help cover living expenses to run their pro houses. MVP as far as I know has no sponsor as a team (they don't wear anything), Zenex likewise doesn't have a big sponsor. Startale has some level of sponsorships as seen by their patches on their clothing, but are probably in the same boat as oGs and Prime's sponsorship levels. TSL was the only clan that had fully salaried workers in them, and 2 out of the 3 of them left the team which probably terminated the contracts anyways, and TSL has stated that Sangho and Clide gave up their own prize money/salaries to help with the team. I think people vastly overestimate how "glamorously rich" the korean pro teams are. They make money.. it just all goes into "mangement" and other BS like SC2Con. Korean's are abusing the talents of players and making money. Prime has a chain restaurant as a sponsor... they all have multiple sponsors... yet the players are all broke!! Someone is fleecing the Korean players and calling it "management" and doing stuff like forming unions and probably collecting "dues" Yay. Sensationalists like you make stupid posts and spread false information in which you ahve no idea whether is true or not. God damn people like you annoy me to no end. Ya, it's not like KeSPA never did anything wrong in the BW scene for example.
Did you misquote or something? What you said has absolutely zero relevance to my post of spreading misinformation.
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On August 12 2011 10:02 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:59 Serpico wrote:On August 12 2011 09:57 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
NASL can't grow without Koreans. The competition would be a joke if it's not played by the best players. Oh please, if you had the best Europeans and Sen for example you'd have more than enough good players. Sooner or later it's just being snobby for wanting koreans or nothing. The level of play isn't that different if you could put more of the better european players in NASL. Naniwa and Thorzain, who are 2 of our best foreigner, didn't even make it in the first round of code A. The skill difference is getting bigger and bigger, you can't ignore it. :/
Then they did exceedingly well compared to yesterday's preformance in the GSTL.
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On August 12 2011 10:02 momonami5 wrote:
wow is this greed or does the 2,000 not cover the travel I don't get it.
$2,000 covers the travel so I really don't think it has to do with money at all. I really feel like it's a statement from the Korean teams after what happened with Puma. Unfortunately for NASL the qualifers had already happened when that drama came up.
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=(.....thats unfortunate...cause now if say a NA or EU player wins it, it doesnt mean much since the best koreans arent in it....=(....still..I will watch NASL cause they try to improve everytime..which they do. ^.^
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While this is a big blow to the NASL, just think of what's on the line. Like.. MONEY. In all caps.
Tons of money. People will fight tooth and nail for it, so expect great games fellas. I'm a bit upset that there won't be any NaDa or Boxer, but hey, it'll be great regardless, with people like IdrA and PuMa still in.
I'm pretty stoked to see who'll take it now.
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Meh, I was looking forward to the Koreans. But I'll still watch because of the awesome production quality.
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On August 12 2011 10:05 Kaoriyu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 10:02 Noocta wrote:On August 12 2011 09:59 Serpico wrote:On August 12 2011 09:57 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
NASL can't grow without Koreans. The competition would be a joke if it's not played by the best players. Oh please, if you had the best Europeans and Sen for example you'd have more than enough good players. Sooner or later it's just being snobby for wanting koreans or nothing. The level of play isn't that different if you could put more of the better european players in NASL. Naniwa and Thorzain, who are 2 of our best foreigner, didn't even make it in the first round of code A. The skill difference is getting bigger and bigger, you can't ignore it. :/ Then they did exceedingly well compared to yesterday's preformance in the GSTL.
But if they dont play perfectly they're bad. Everyone knows that.
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On August 12 2011 10:03 dAPhREAk wrote:
Can someone let me know how much money GSL pays for foreigners to participate in the GSL (a month long tournament)?
For foreigners who are invited through MLG exchange programing it is all expenses paid for a month.
So that is food, accomadations and travel to and fromm the venue etc.
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On August 12 2011 10:04 babo213 wrote:
Is it really providing $2,000 when it's deducting from their winnings?
not everyone is going to win. the 2k at least guarantees a free trip for the player if he loses (with probably money left over).
40k is still alot of money.
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I've seen too many people saying there not buying nasl now. Just so you know nasl, I didn't buy season 1, had no inentions to buy season 2. But now that more of my favorite foreign players will have a chance to shine I WILL be buying.
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Da fuck? Do koreans not know how international esports work? Since when do tournaments pay all expenses for every player..? That would be ridiculously expensive, I can't believe they are demanding it. Thats the whole point of sponsors/teams. $1k (+1k winnings even for last place) is very generous So basically none of these korean teams will go to any international events from now on unless they don't have to pay a dime? :-/ Feels more and more like kespa for sc2 is being born, or even worse, cause they are much more hidden than kespa was.
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When people say "I won't watch it it without these Koreans" it seems like we would allow them to be elitist. If a big part of the community won't watch because they aren't there, then they get more leverage and allow themselves to give leagues high demands, because they know they won't get the views otherwise.
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On August 12 2011 09:10 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:08 NASL.tv wrote:On August 12 2011 09:05 Kraznaya wrote:On August 12 2011 09:00 NASL.tv wrote:On August 12 2011 08:57 Kraznaya wrote:On August 12 2011 08:56 NASL.tv wrote:
We have absolutely no problem if the Koreans think the NASL is not worth their time // investment. Our only issue is the fact that they all: a) knew the contents of the contract, b) deliberately signed up players to qualify for the league, c) made demands, and d) waited until we already started the season to tell us that our offers to them were not acceptable. So are you going to address whether the security deposit was the true issue? We have already begun paying back all security deposits of players who are no longer in Season 2. Our contract states that all prizes will be paid within 60 days of the end of Season 1. We are still within that time frame, and will be paying all prizes within that period!
Artosis, HuK (who paid Boxer's deposit for S1), WeMadeFox, etc could all attest to the fact that we have and will pay our deposits back. That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking: do Korean teams simply not have the cash to pay their new security deposits? Because considering the $2000 you're offering for travel costs, it seems like that is the true hang up to their participation. In that case I believe an exception should be made for the Koreans and their security deposits, since they had an exemplary record of playing all games on time in Season 1. Ensnare forfeited games twice. While in general, the Koreans were more professional about their participation that foreigners, it wasn't exemplary. I offered the Korean teams to talk to me personally if the deposits were a problem and we could work something out, but I heard no responses other than the same repeated ultimatum. This is really bizarre. If their demand was travel expenses and no security deposit, and the $1000 travel expenses + guaranteed $1000 even if they lost in the first round covered travel expenses, the security deposit seems to be the only issue left. Are we sure there isn't just some kind of misunderstanding or maybe translations giving off the wrong tone?
I think too many people are jumping to conclusions.
After the TSL/ Tester/FD shitstorm, I had hoped people would learn to wait to hear from both sides before jumping to conclusions.
I find it hard to believe that Korean teams are just being total douches like NASL tells it.
Not necessarily saying NASL is lying but the way words are put together can sway many opinions.
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On August 12 2011 10:06 Executor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 10:03 dAPhREAk wrote:
Can someone let me know how much money GSL pays for foreigners to participate in the GSL (a month long tournament)? For foreigners who are invited through MLG exchange programing it is all expenses paid for a month. So that is food, accomadations and travel to and fromm the venue etc.
and for those who are not part of the limited exchange program?
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The presence of korean players was what made NASL better than IPL to me, so NASL just got a whole lot less interesting... I guess the Koreans are more valuable than some people think and they (the koreans) seem to realize it.
If you think about it, the mere presence of koreans in foreign tournaments is probably very lucrative; anyway in my opinion it undoubtedly increases the MLG/NASL tickets sales in a substantial way.
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On August 12 2011 10:06 Zane wrote:
Meh, I was looking forward to the Koreans. But I'll still watch because of the awesome production quality.
Is that sarcasm? lol
I think most people will agree that the production quality of the NASL has been (so far) sub par at best.
Not to mention the casters.....
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Let's be honest here. Koreans players are what make up the SC2 Pro Scene. Sure you have a few players like idra, Select, Sen who can play on an equivalent skill level, but without the Koreans, NASL is essentially a joke.
Let's break it down. 6/8 RO8 players were Korean. The Koreans also dominated their groups. The difference in skill level is pretty blatant.
Now take into account viewership; many NASL fans watch it for a chance to see their favorite Koreans, not to see mediocre Western play.
What this all means is that the Koreans do not need NASL. They have GSL, MLG, Dreamhack and many other tournaments for a chance to earn prize money.
NASL asserts that they will cover $2,000. But as NASL stated, in S1, the money was taken out of their prize money. This means that players like Zenio, who did not make any money at all, will have wasted his time for coming.
To make money, I assume NASL wants viewers to attend the live event as well as buy season passes. This means that it needs a high base viewership because only a certain percentage of the population will buy the pass.
This means that NASL needs the viewership, especially of the fans who watch for the high level of play exerted by the Koreans.
The players who want the VODS and high quality streams probably want to improve their own game. This requires players of high caliber to play the actual matches. While the foreigners NASL are subbing in are certainly good, they are definitely not a match for the Koreans.
Now, with the contract NASL offers. It is true that NASL are on a tight budget, but with the chance to expand and grow, wouldn't it certainly make sense if they were to cut the prize money in order to establish a long lasting relationship with the Koreans.
Though SC2Con is certainly not the best of organizations, NASL are erroneous in this decision. They need to view the long road ahead.
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EPT
