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On August 12 2011 10:04 Fleebenworth wrote:
I have to believe this also has a lot to do with how shitty NASL ran season one in the opinion of the players, they would probably have been more eager to return if it was actually an enjoyable experience, which for many it was not.
I'm sure the players who didn't enjoy the experience are perfectly capable of making their own decision to not participate.
Why is it that the organization FORBID ALL players from playing, even those that may want to?
I can't imagine that there's not a single Korean who doesn't want to return, especially after reading some of their interviews.
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Well it's not like sc2 is skyrocketing in korea (or eve did) and we are already near the first expansion, so I really don't see the reasoning behind this as it's overall bad for sc2 and the korean scene
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Good. That is all. I'm 100% behind NASL on this one.
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On August 12 2011 10:07 darkest44 wrote:
Da fuck? Do koreans not know how international esports work? Since when do tournaments pay all expenses for every player..? That would be ridiculously expensive, I can't believe they are demanding it. Thats the whole point of sponsors/teams... So basically none of these korean teams will go to any international events from now on unless they don't have to pay a dime? :-/
The issue is Esports aren't developed enough where teams have the money to fly their players everywhere, but that also means many tournaments can't afford to pay for their travel easily. So it's really tough to travel at all. I think both sides are right here, but the scene needs more money in it to be viable globally when talking about mending a rift between korean/foreigners when it comes to participating in more tourneys.
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On August 12 2011 09:11 hdan wrote:
Im quite happy that the koreans have pulled out, if they cant afford to send theyre players to a tournments with prize pools that big so be it, some money in foreigner pockets is okay by me, besides, puma hero rain and the FXO guys will probably be up there if they can take the places.
You're not at all concerned that we are essentially getting a worse product?
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On August 12 2011 10:04 babo213 wrote:
Is it really providing $2,000 when it's deducting from their winnings?
-.- Did you actually read the article?
Its 1000$ travel stipend + 1000$ minimum winning (if you make it to top 16, insta 1000$), which is up from previous minumum winning (they buffed it)
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On August 12 2011 10:07 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 10:06 Executor1 wrote:On August 12 2011 10:03 dAPhREAk wrote:
Can someone let me know how much money GSL pays for foreigners to participate in the GSL (a month long tournament)? For foreigners who are invited through MLG exchange programing it is all expenses paid for a month. So that is food, accomadations and travel to and fromm the venue etc. and for those who are not part of the limited exchange program?
Well they get all accomadations paid for for sure through the gom house, and probably some food that is prepared there. Beyond that i dont know.
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And for the fact that the NASL has only made it about them demanding more money has shown what kind of organisation they are. Sure that happened, but there are alot of other factors that went into this decision but they made the korean teams out to seem greedy and unreasonable, and that is just NOT THE CASE. If anyone knows what koreans are like they dont take decision's like this lightly, this takes away the possibility of one of the players earning an easy $40k.
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I think this is a good thing.
The chances of a North American winning the North American Star Leage have just gone up. I like to watch people Incan relate to, and someone in S.Korea who trains in a dark house 12 hours a day isn't really an "accessible" person.
I want "foreigners" to win money, so foreigners can afford to be a pro gamer.
I'm all smiles! I'm glad they don't want our money! Fuck em!
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On August 12 2011 10:07 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:10 Zzoram wrote:On August 12 2011 09:08 NASL.tv wrote:On August 12 2011 09:05 Kraznaya wrote:On August 12 2011 09:00 NASL.tv wrote:On August 12 2011 08:57 Kraznaya wrote:On August 12 2011 08:56 NASL.tv wrote:
We have absolutely no problem if the Koreans think the NASL is not worth their time // investment. Our only issue is the fact that they all: a) knew the contents of the contract, b) deliberately signed up players to qualify for the league, c) made demands, and d) waited until we already started the season to tell us that our offers to them were not acceptable. So are you going to address whether the security deposit was the true issue? We have already begun paying back all security deposits of players who are no longer in Season 2. Our contract states that all prizes will be paid within 60 days of the end of Season 1. We are still within that time frame, and will be paying all prizes within that period!
Artosis, HuK (who paid Boxer's deposit for S1), WeMadeFox, etc could all attest to the fact that we have and will pay our deposits back. That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking: do Korean teams simply not have the cash to pay their new security deposits? Because considering the $2000 you're offering for travel costs, it seems like that is the true hang up to their participation. In that case I believe an exception should be made for the Koreans and their security deposits, since they had an exemplary record of playing all games on time in Season 1. Ensnare forfeited games twice. While in general, the Koreans were more professional about their participation that foreigners, it wasn't exemplary. I offered the Korean teams to talk to me personally if the deposits were a problem and we could work something out, but I heard no responses other than the same repeated ultimatum. This is really bizarre. If their demand was travel expenses and no security deposit, and the $1000 travel expenses + guaranteed $1000 even if they lost in the first round covered travel expenses, the security deposit seems to be the only issue left. Are we sure there isn't just some kind of misunderstanding or maybe translations giving off the wrong tone? I think too many people are jumping to conclusions. After the TSL/ Tester/FD shitstorm, I had hoped people would learn to wait to hear from both sides before jumping to conclusions. I find it hard to believe that Korean teams are just being total douches like NASL tells it. Not necessarily saying NASL is lying but the way words are put together can sway many opinions.
I'm with you, and trying to see if Milkis or oniontaker or another korean/translator can get some info on this, as this seems somewhat too strange to be the whole picture.
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On August 12 2011 10:08 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:11 hdan wrote:
Im quite happy that the koreans have pulled out, if they cant afford to send theyre players to a tournments with prize pools that big so be it, some money in foreigner pockets is okay by me, besides, puma hero rain and the FXO guys will probably be up there if they can take the places.
You're not at all concerned that we are essentially getting a worse product?
If you're not willing to support a foreign tournament how can you expect it to grow? You can't just ask for the best of the best for every tournament no matter what. It's not feasible no matter how you slice it. A worse product? Maybe, depends on the production quality as much as the game because of the concerns based on the past NASL.
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This is disappointing news, but it's understandable that it is hard to please everyone. Glad to see the show will still go on.
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Haha!
User was warned for this post
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On August 12 2011 10:09 BrahCJ wrote:
I think this is a good thing.
The chances of a North American winning the North American Star Leage have just gone up. I like to watch people Incan relate to, and someone in S.Korea who trains in a dark house 12 hours a day isn't really an "accessible" person.
I want "foreigners" to win money, so foreigners can afford to be a pro gamer.
I'm all smiles! I'm glad they don't want our money! Fuck em!
Nah, Hero Puma or Rain will probably win it.
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On August 12 2011 10:08 CeriseCherries wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 10:04 babo213 wrote:
Is it really providing $2,000 when it's deducting from their winnings? -.- Did you actually read the article? Its 1000$ travel stipend + 1000$ minimum winning (if you make it to top 16, insta 1000$), which is up from previous minumum winning (they buffed it)
Yes, imo, you shouldn't include the 1000 when it's essentially being deducted from whatever prize money the player gets.
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Oh also it doesnt say anything about slayers, so does that mean boxer and any other slayers players that made it will still be participating? Or have they withdrawn as well.
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On August 12 2011 10:08 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:11 hdan wrote:
Im quite happy that the koreans have pulled out, if they cant afford to send theyre players to a tournments with prize pools that big so be it, some money in foreigner pockets is okay by me, besides, puma hero rain and the FXO guys will probably be up there if they can take the places.
You're not at all concerned that we are essentially getting a worse product?
Foreigner based tournaments can also make up for huge exciting games.
Remember the first Dreamhack with Naama against Mana, with 5 super exciting games while the Korean cheesed themselves to death in the GSL?
Last tournament being assembly, were Huk and Nada were thrown out extremely easy, yet it had SO many awesome awesome games.
TSL was fantastic and exciting throughout, if it was Korean vs Korean, foreigner vs Korean or foreigner vs foreigner.
Korean = Automatically exciting games isn't necessarily true.
Foreigner only doesn't mean there are only Bronze-Leagues having a cripple fight.
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I'm almost sure that the Korean players, as individuals, would absolutely accept a stipend that would allow them to break even. The prize money, the prestige, the recognition and competition are all very powerful incentive to participate in a tournament. Obviously, NASL is an imperfect tournament - the schedule is rough, failing in group play is outrageously punishing and the single elimination format leaves something to be desired.
But players want to play. That was clear by the number of Korean participants in the qualifiers. And I totally take NASL at its word that they offered as much as they could in a stipend, without compromising their integrity. This was, probably, a collective management decision on the part of the team managers and runner. They are looking to protect the (still young) Korean scene and control one of their most precious resources - their labor.
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On August 12 2011 10:10 Executor1 wrote:
Oh also it doesnt say anything about slayers, so does that mean boxer and any other slayers players that made it will still be participating? Or have they withdrawn as well.
withdrawn for similar reasons...
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This seems more like a bureaucratic decision based more on what Korean coaches and players and the overall Starcraft 2 commitee in Korea thinks they can demand and what they deserve than a decision players would make based on schedule and inflexibility from NASL. Of course we've only heard the NASL side of the story, but based on this information, I'm very disappointed in the Korean Starcraft scene.
It feels like Korean SC2 is trying to shut out foreigners with this decision, even after a generous amount of concessions were made by NASL. It's like when a rock star refuses to perform based on if he thinks he will get enough money and popularity from the event, instead of focusing on the music.
Overall, I'm very disappointed in this announcement and it is a huge blow to non-Korean starcraft leagues everywhere, worldwide. It will be interesting to hear the Korean's side of the story.
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EPT
