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On August 12 2011 08:34 Zhalad wrote:
Disapointing.
But I can see a lot of good reason why the Koreans are demanding so much
* Unreasonable play times (4 am) for their weekly league matches
* Lag issues between KR and NA servers
* Bad format - travel all the way to the US to play potentially one Bo3
* The fact that a Korean player was poached during the last finals (Puma) doesn't reflect to well on the league
* With the amount of Koreans who would of been in the tournament now - it would of likely ended up in a lot of them in the finals - and the teams having to cover this (which goes to the format issue - sending players to US for a Bo3).
* Players being fatigued / participation in the Korean leagues (GSL/GSTL) (even MC has been saying he felt like he is falling behind due to all the foreign events)
* GSL partnership with MLG (politics / agreed conditions for players participating / etc)
Bad luck for NASL and the viewers, but got to think about it from both sides here....
Good points. True, lets look at the bigger picture rather than focusing only on traveling expenses. There is way more to be told.
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This is very disappointing news...NASL's conditions were reasonable. For once, NASL didn't screw this up.
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well, i'm still just as excited without koreans. i mean, tsl 1 & 2 were awesome back in the day.
maybe some foreigners will step up their game now that their chances of winning just increased dramatically.
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On August 12 2011 09:57 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
NASL can't grow without Koreans. The competition would be a joke if it's not played by the best players.
Oh please, if you had the best Europeans and Sen for example you'd have more than enough good players. Sooner or later it's just being snobby for wanting koreans or nothing. The level of play isn't that different if you could put more of the better european players in NASL.
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lol, well i definitely wont be watching season 2 =/ i was actually pretty excited that NASL was chalked full of koreans this season, and that alot of the games would be played on the korean server with no lag because of it. We were gonna see some high quality games.
Regardless of weather i think the koreans should have accepted the offer (i do) i still wont be watching , im not really interested in seeing a bunch of foreigners play to be honest. We have IPL for that and the production value has been much higher so far.
anyways GL in the future NASL but i think you lost alot of viewers (not your own fault but it still is a very bad sign for the NASL in my mind)
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On August 12 2011 09:55 Dexerion wrote:
Also the NASL should keep these kind of deails close to the vest. Don't start airing details of your deals and offers. Keep the details for the good deals, not the failed ones. Don't let people know from a business standpoint that you are being turned down. Just focus on the strong points of your product.
I think people would crush them if they didn't illustrate how the bent over backwards.
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This makes Ghandi a sad panda 
Now PuMa will sweep the nasl
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Cant say I blame any side for this, the Korean teams cant afford to send there players over seas, And NASL should not be forced to give them special treatment because of that.
Only thing I disagree with is SCCon seemingly taking the choice away from individual teams, even if the teams themselves don't want to it should be up to them no one else.
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I feel like we should wait till we hear from them. People are way too damn quick to jump to conclusions. (like always)
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Boxer not playing? geez that alone is enough for me to skip NASL
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On August 12 2011 09:56 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:53 Kazeyonoma wrote:On August 12 2011 09:43 L3gendary wrote:
The thing that makes the least sense is that korean players like ganzi, DRG, choya, and other non-invitees are willing to go to MLG for a chance to win 5k, and paying for the expenses themselves but this committee doesn''t want any part in the nasl when they are offered 2k per player + and a chance to win 50k.
It's not adding up... False. Ganzi, Choya, and other non-invitees like Alicia, were paid for by their own team sponsors aka SlayerS and FXO (and FXOBoss has stated that the cost to gain benefit ratios are slim, and that's why he's not sending any koreans to Raleigh, but will for Orlando). These teams have large enough sponsorships and money to be able to pay their own way through. Also, this doesn't include the prior frustrations regarding scheduling of matches for Koreans. DRG didn't pay for it himself the first time, he was part of the MLG/GSL exchange, so him, boxer, MVP, and MMA were paid for by that system. In this next MLG where DRG wasn't invited, but will be attending, he's being paid for by Complexity not team MVP probably. Remember, that outside of SlayerS, FXOKorea, and IM, I don't think most of the Korean teams make very much from their sponsors. oGs and Prime have local fried chicken sponsorships that probably just help cover living expenses to run their pro houses. MVP as far as I know has no sponsor as a team (they don't wear anything), Zenex likewise doesn't have a big sponsor. Startale has some level of sponsorships as seen by their patches on their clothing, but are probably in the same boat as oGs and Prime's sponsorship levels. TSL was the only clan that had fully salaried workers in them, and 2 out of the 3 of them left the team which probably terminated the contracts anyways, and TSL has stated that Sangho and Clide gave up their own prize money/salaries to help with the team. I think people vastly overestimate how "glamorously rich" the korean pro teams are. They make money.. it just all goes into "mangement" and other BS like SC2Con. Korean's are abusing the talents of players and making money. Prime has a chain restaurant as a sponsor... they all have multiple sponsors... yet the players are all broke!! Someone is fleecing the Korean players and calling it "management" and doing stuff like forming unions and probably collecting "dues"
Yay. Sensationalists like you make stupid posts and spread false information in which you ahve no idea whether is true or not. God damn people like you annoy me to no end.
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On August 12 2011 08:09 FabledIntegral wrote:
Wowow. Really? Man, that sucks. $2,000 stipend and they STILL say no? And it's not like it's unlikely they'll make the Ro8, that's even more money to pay it off, right?
Guess players like PuMa could play though since he's staying in the U.S. and I presume EG would cover the costs?
Where does it say hes staying in the U.S. , i heard he may bootcamp at the EG house fromm time to time, but eg has stated they are providing him the infrastructure to practice in KOREA.
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I honestly don't understand why the main theme in this thread is bashing on NASL and/or saying that they will have no viewers.
1) They will get viewers, the foreign scene is still awesome.
2) Basically from what managers and other people said their (VERY GENEROUS) offer of 2000 dollars is more than enough to pay for the cost. If they make agree on something, then make additional demands and then withdraw so late, that just makes me angry. They're refusing the opportunity (and what they agreed on earlier) to compete for money overseas for free.
I think we all agree on that foreign scene is bigger and is getting ever more big than korean scene (which is just and only gsl).
It's certain that they will eventually come and they will want to compete at this larger scene. The only thing I hope for is that foreigners actually get much better as the scene will grow so that koreans will actually have to pay for their own shit if they want to come and compete.
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On August 12 2011 10:00 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:56 dsousa wrote:On August 12 2011 09:53 Kazeyonoma wrote:On August 12 2011 09:43 L3gendary wrote:
The thing that makes the least sense is that korean players like ganzi, DRG, choya, and other non-invitees are willing to go to MLG for a chance to win 5k, and paying for the expenses themselves but this committee doesn''t want any part in the nasl when they are offered 2k per player + and a chance to win 50k.
It's not adding up... False. Ganzi, Choya, and other non-invitees like Alicia, were paid for by their own team sponsors aka SlayerS and FXO (and FXOBoss has stated that the cost to gain benefit ratios are slim, and that's why he's not sending any koreans to Raleigh, but will for Orlando). These teams have large enough sponsorships and money to be able to pay their own way through. Also, this doesn't include the prior frustrations regarding scheduling of matches for Koreans. DRG didn't pay for it himself the first time, he was part of the MLG/GSL exchange, so him, boxer, MVP, and MMA were paid for by that system. In this next MLG where DRG wasn't invited, but will be attending, he's being paid for by Complexity not team MVP probably. Remember, that outside of SlayerS, FXOKorea, and IM, I don't think most of the Korean teams make very much from their sponsors. oGs and Prime have local fried chicken sponsorships that probably just help cover living expenses to run their pro houses. MVP as far as I know has no sponsor as a team (they don't wear anything), Zenex likewise doesn't have a big sponsor. Startale has some level of sponsorships as seen by their patches on their clothing, but are probably in the same boat as oGs and Prime's sponsorship levels. TSL was the only clan that had fully salaried workers in them, and 2 out of the 3 of them left the team which probably terminated the contracts anyways, and TSL has stated that Sangho and Clide gave up their own prize money/salaries to help with the team. I think people vastly overestimate how "glamorously rich" the korean pro teams are. They make money.. it just all goes into "mangement" and other BS like SC2Con. Korean's are abusing the talents of players and making money. Prime has a chain restaurant as a sponsor... they all have multiple sponsors... yet the players are all broke!! Someone is fleecing the Korean players and calling it "management" and doing stuff like forming unions and probably collecting "dues" Yay. Sensationalists like you make stupid posts and spread false information in which you ahve no idea whether is true or not. God damn people like you annoy me to no end.
Ya, it's not like KeSPA never did anything wrong in the BW scene for example.
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I really can't believe that some people are narrow-minded enough to continue to bash the NASL on the precedence of their first season.
The manner in which they handled negotiations with the Koreans were more than amirable. Also, from a business etiquette point of view, that was very unprofessional by the SC2 Committee to wait so long. NASL doesn't deserve the heat that they're taking from this.
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Ok so koreans aren't coming now what ? A new qualifier to fill in the blank? What's gonna happen?
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wow is this greed or does the 2,000 not cover the travel I don't get it.
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Some of you guys are getting it wrong.
It is not about power struggle or SC2 politics and what not.
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On August 12 2011 09:59 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:57 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
NASL can't grow without Koreans. The competition would be a joke if it's not played by the best players. Oh please, if you had the best Europeans and Sen for example you'd have more than enough good players. Sooner or later it's just being snobby for wanting koreans or nothing. The level of play isn't that different if you could put more of the better european players in NASL.
Naniwa and Thorzain, who are 2 of our best foreigner, didn't even make it in the first round of code A.
The skill difference is getting bigger and bigger, you can't ignore it. :/
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I think we all need to wait for SC2con to make an official statement before jumping to conclusions. It seems like NASL is being transparent about everything and that is appreciated. Sad to see a lot of the high lvl koreans being pulled from a spectators point. I feel bad for NASL especially after the high amount of criticism they received from production value of their previous finals first few days. While it sucks all around and as much as I want to support the NASL without the highest level of play I don't care to follow it......
There is a reason I've followed the GSL all along is because it offers play that is above everyone else. I also think that some people in this thread have a very good point about maybe the format of NASL being to harsh (to be fair I also think the GSL is also too harsh on players). Ret being # seed and getting knocked out right off the bat . Something for NASL to consider changing though in the future.......
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EPT
