EPTKorean teams withdraw from NASL - Page 127
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Longshank
1648 Posts
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On August 12 2011 21:14 Vi0elence wrote: I think this decision will change eventually. I mean I can't see ALL the Koreans missing out, considering how well they did in NASL1. There are also plenty of good players outside of Korea...soooo, not totally worried. It will still be a good event with super-high level play. NASL will continue to do fine. Not happy to see Boxer has withdrawn though... No, there will be some Koreans, just not many. The problem is there are many good players outside Korea, but few great ones. We all see what happens at individual LANs when foreigners meet Koreans. And to say that it will be filled with super-high level play when almost all the super high level players are gone is kind of silly. On August 12 2011 21:15 Eeevil wrote: You will never understand this mentality ?. Are you trying to say you're retarded ? The mentality is "Why are all these foreigners competing when in the end the Koreans take all prizes, might as well just cut to the Ro16 or Ro8 and have the Koreans duke it out there?" Is it that hard to understand that the disparity in skill between Koreans/non koreans makes for shitty games and you'll have to wait for Korean on Korean games in order to make things interesting. In BW I never watched the Korean vs foreigner games at WCG just for that reason. I'm not of the opinion that the NASL should be a foreigner only tournament, Koreans should compete and win wherever they can as they are the best and worked hard for it. But having a handfull of Koreans in a tournament full of foreigners makes for a bland tournament before the Koreans are playing each other. However I do understand that having no Koreans at all makes the entire tournament a bit bland for a lot of people, but there's only so much NASL can do about that. Is it that hard to understand that the skill gap can only close if foreigners adapt more to Korean styles of practice and compete against them more? You can pay minor leaguers major league salaries but that doesn't change the fact that their play is still minor league. If losing to Koreans doesn't make them want to try harder, how is rewarding their current mentality going to do so? Players generally improve noticeably after training in Korea, even for just a couple of months. Players leaving Korea generally seem to maintain their current level (stagnate) or even regress in comparison with their peers. I'm pretty sure what's needed is MORE interaction with Koreans, not less. | ||
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Crosswind
United States279 Posts
I also think this is sort of an asinine move by the Korean teams. "Hey, SC2 is under-funded in our country, let's deny ourselves a chance to win a huge tournament/get some more money." With decision-making like this, no surprise that teams are losing their players to better-managed foreign counterparts. It's still a great product, and I'll still be subscribing. -Cross | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5775 Posts
If it costs too much to bring koreans in, then what can you do? The event must remain profitable. On a side note, why all the diss on foreigner X foreigner games? They may not be the highest level of play (Korean), but they are very much enjoyable. Plus, for those wanting to watch koreans beat other koreans or beat foreigners, just watch GSL. | ||
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AnalThermometer
Vatican City State334 Posts
On August 12 2011 20:53 dabom88 wrote: To me a fan is someone who likes a product. These aren't "good times and bad times", this is ONE tournament. I think that as a fan, if this tournament is not doing things you think are the right way to do things, it's actually your duty as a fan to give support to tournaments you think ARE doing things the right way. Nowhere in my definition of a fan does a fan support something they think is bad. You're making the assumption that all "true" SC2 fans think NASL is good for e-sports. They don't. And my response to your comparison was about fan response. Surprise, if fans think something sucks, they'll say it sucks. They said MLG sucked when it sucked. They said it was good when it became good. The same applies for NASL, no special treatment. They'll say NASL sucks if they think it does. And they'll keep saying it until they feel that it has stopped sucking, or it folds. That's quite a sad definition of a fan, you are describing consumers. You even seem to be implying a tournament with massive prizepools for the players which fills up seats at a venue and also gave us one of the best finals in SC2 so far.... is actually NOT good for esports. Which blows my mind. Must be living in bizzaro world today. Those people can say MLG sucked, I'll be saying technichal problems happen and to keep perspective. In the same vein, I'll also be saying NASL can improve if people support it, give it constructive criticism and not just say "lol NASL sux, i hate incontrol!!". You can go hang with the other crowd. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On August 12 2011 21:22 Longshank wrote: The big question for SC2Con to answer is, why the fuck did they sign up and qualified if the terms weren't acceptable. That's a huge dick move. Have you read the posts? Qualifiers = Pay $10 to play for a chance to play in NASL =/= Guaranteed to play or a commitment to play if qualified. That commitment comes with the contract which NASL did not finish completing with the qualified players. The "Terms" are the contract which was never hashed out. When they played qualifiers, there were no set terms, at most, there was an understanding that things were in the works. That's not the fault of the Koreans, that's the fault of NASL for not scheduling properly + not working it out in time with the Koreans + not having a contingency or alternative if things got out of hand. It's up to the organizer to get the event running, not up to the participant when they are not under contract. | ||
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Aldin_D2x
Canada55 Posts
On a side note, I know that iNcontrol left the NASL for other reasons, but I wonder whether this played a part in his decision to leave. | ||
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Quintum_
United States669 Posts
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Vi0elence
United States35 Posts
.....Fine. HIGH level play. It will still be good to watch. | ||
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CptGrackSparrow
United States278 Posts
Part of this is actually travel expenses, but I can't help but wonder what else is going on behind the scenes. Are the koreans afraid they'll lose more players to foreign teams (e.g. Puma)? Are they trying to protect their players from losing to a lower caliber of player because of latency? This will probably hurt the korean scene overall. A new influx of SC2 viewers and fans are much more likely to watch the NASL, MLG, or IEM because it's happening at a much better time than the GSL. Without these Koreans in the NASL it will hurt their opportunity for growth in the US market w/ new fans of SC2. | ||
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Sablar
Sweden880 Posts
Also it makes me wonder what MLG pays for travel. | ||
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CptGrackSparrow
United States278 Posts
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On August 12 2011 21:28 Crosswind wrote: Really unfortunate to hear. But it's freaking unheard of to guarantee more than 2K to anybody in the top 16 of a freaking tournament, so I'm not surprised NASL couldn't do better. I also think this is sort of an asinine move by the Korean teams. "Hey, SC2 is under-funded in our country, let's deny ourselves a chance to win a huge tournament/get some more money." With decision-making like this, no surprise that teams are losing their players to better-managed foreign counterparts. It's still a great product, and I'll still be subscribing. -Cross You clearly did not read most of the posts here. So are you saying it's not asinine to screw up 3 months of time for the Koreans by forcing them to play at ungodly hours with bad latency? No other tournament plays out for 3 months across 4/5 continents. Having a stipend in that case seems a lot more reasonable and with that out of the way, it's only $1000 for the top 16. Not so amazing now is it? The Koreans aren't saying "Hey SC2 is underfunded here so let's not make money." They're saying "Hey, these guys shafted us for 3 months and are not meeting our demands now. We have better things to do like practice for GSL or own white dudes at IEM. See ya." On August 12 2011 21:28 Sbrubbles wrote: Unlike IPL, NASL's decision is clearly economic, NOT "political". If it costs too much to bring koreans in, then what can you do? The event must remain profitable. On a side note, why all the diss on foreigner X foreigner games? They may not be the highest level of play (Korean), but they are very much enjoyable. Plus, for those wanting to watch koreans beat other koreans or beat foreigners, just watch GSL. That, along with widening the skill gap is pretty much why. As for the "just watch GSL," there aren't many foreigners in GSL. And if you want foreigner X foreigner...I could say to you, just watch IPL. On August 12 2011 21:30 AnalThermometer wrote: That's quite a sad definition of a fan, you are describing consumers. You even seem to be implying a tournament with massive prizepools for the players which fills up seats at a venue and also gave us one of the best finals in SC2 so far.... is actually NOT good for esports. Which blows my mind. Must be living in bizzaro world today. Those people can say MLG sucked, I'll be saying technichal problems happen and to keep perspective. In the same vein, I'll also be saying NASL can improve if people support it, give it constructive criticism and not just say "lol NASL sux, i hate incontrol!!". You can go hang with the other crowd. No, consumers are just people who buy the product but have no interest in it's development. He's saying that NASL was subpar for major leagues (which it was) and fans that want SC2 to thrive have every right to voice their displeasure and demand improvements (which they do). Again, the scene will grow if you push it. It will stagnate if we're content with mediocrity. Just like the players within the scene. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5775 Posts
On August 12 2011 21:38 CptGrackSparrow wrote: Part of this is actually travel expenses, but I can't help but wonder what else is going on behind the scenes. Are the koreans afraid they'll lose more players to foreign teams (e.g. Puma)? Are they trying to protect their players from losing to a lower caliber of player because of latency? Hmm, this is a good point. The managers and coaches could be wary of sending their players abroad. Personally I do think it's a travels expenses thing, but your point may be a big influence. | ||
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Poffel
471 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + NASL: I see I was wrong to expect Korea's commitment to at least match our own. Mr Chae: Doesn't it? [points to American progamer behind NASL] Mr. Chae: You there, what is your profession? American progamer: I am a student... sir. Mr. Chae: [points to another soldier] And you, American, what is your profession? American: Programmer, sir. Mr. Chae: Programmer. [turns to a third American progamer] Mr. Chae: You? American: Salesman. Mr. Chae: [turns back shouting] Koreans! What is your profession? Koreans: WAR! WAR! WAR! Mr. Chae: [turning to NASL] You see, old friend? I brought more soldiers than you did. | ||
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Neoattitude
Guam172 Posts
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
On August 12 2011 08:11 Lrod wrote: Guess i wont be watching NASL next season. User was warned for this post although it might be a bit lame to say it, I also have to admit that I don't think I'll buy a ticket for next season.... The beauty of season 1 was that so many players got the chance over an extended period of time to show their worth it really made for great finals. Now the finals will feel to me like the only reason these people are in the finals is because the ones that were the best last season didn't show up... very very sad.. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
With SC2 not being that huge in Korea, and with the limited interest for the domestic scene, how much interest could there possibly be for the foreign scene, like NASL? And with the low interest, which equal low exposure for sponsors, which Korean sponsors are gonna value sending Koreans to foreign events? To be honest it almost feels theres more incentive for foreign companies to bring over selected Koreans because it gives their tournaments "star value" (which creates viewers which creates income) than it is for the Korean sponsors to do the same (for exposure of their name to the Korean public, which craetes income). Maybe in a few years or something, either if the Korean scene gets big enough and interest for foreign events get big enough, or if the prize money ramps up to the point when it pretty much pays for any travel costs alone. Maybe then I think we might see Koreans and foreigners all flying around the world participating in all kind of event. But while SC2 is growing fast, its not growing THAT fast. Travel costs are still largely too high compared to tournament winnings. In the end, its all about business and money. And on a side note, Koreans need to learn to read contracts and agreements. It was the same deal at DH Summer. Im sure Koreans WANT to participate in lots of foreign event, but you gotta know your own economical limits. And rather than demanding money from organizers they really should just accept the fact that they cant attend everything beacuse they dont have the fundings. Theres a lot of stuff I'd want to do too but dont have money for, its normal economic thinking. | ||
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Needo
Germany18 Posts
But some random koreans with no interest in the community or esport itself. Go play in your damn GSL i dont give a fuck. | ||
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edwahn
New Zealand121 Posts
On August 12 2011 21:42 Poffel wrote: Even though it's mean, I can't help but to imagine the behind-the-scenes negotiations somewhat like this: + Show Spoiler + NASL: I see I was wrong to expect Korea's commitment to at least match our own. Mr Chae: Doesn't it? [points to American progamer behind NASL] Mr. Chae: You there, what is your profession? American progamer: I am a student... sir. Mr. Chae: [points to another soldier] And you, American, what is your profession? American: Programmer, sir. Mr. Chae: Programmer. [turns to a third American progamer] Mr. Chae: You? American: Salesman. Mr. Chae: [turns back shouting] Koreans! What is your profession? Koreans: WAR! WAR! WAR! Mr. Chae: [turning to NASL] You see, old friend? I brought more soldiers than you did. after all the hate, this GEM emerges. thank you, sir. | ||
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