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On August 04 2011 20:52 baoluvboa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:50 ELA wrote:On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either? Only got Coach Lee's word for that - FruitDealer and Tester would never go out and dispute that, because of the Confucius-sort of honor code asian people have for leaders/elders But they did.. Fruitdealer admitted to drinking alot and not practicing. Both of them also left the team as well as working with the organization.
I'm just saying that there is a posibillity that they are not telling the truth in respect of the team and the management.. Misplaced as it may be.. It's hard for us westerners to figure out
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How important is the SC2PA?
This really doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me....If the team supports Lee and his actions then it should be fine. FD/Tester didn't really have a place in the team then.
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On August 04 2011 20:53 nanaoei wrote:
this is awful, TSL's coach is getting so much flak lately.....
it's hard not to feel for him.....i really wonder what's going on and if all this stress would be alleviated soon
doesn't seem like coach lee meant to be malicious but i'll wait until this develops before i judge
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On August 04 2011 20:51 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either? No, that's not fair. You either keep paying them or tell them to practice X much or you will kick them from the team. Not paying them while still using them for sponsorship is rotten.
Lee did mention that he was having difficulty keeping sponsors and finding new ones because FD and Trickster (who were their two top players) weren't performing. It is still a dick move, but again, no single party is at fault here.
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United Kingdom38256 Posts
FD & Tester never practiced properly, which was clearly an issue when they were supposed to be officially salaried pros and the TSL team was attempting to step up their dedication to the game. That kind of thing wouldn't fly in any serious sport, (witness footballers being fined wages etc) but it needs to be included as a term in a contract.
I wonder if TSL chose to leave rather than pay the money because their finances are just that tight. I mean we had Clide and Killer giving back salaries to the team to help keep things ticking over :/
Oh well, another sad blow for TSL, but one that's definitely brought about by themselves.
On August 04 2011 20:50 ELA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either? Only got Coach Lee's word for that - FruitDealer and Tester would never go out and dispute that, because of the Confucius-sort of honor code asian people have for leaders/elders
They regularly mentioned in interviews how little they'd practiced for things.
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Man coach Lee is such a scumbag. First qqing over the whole EG PumA thing to look like a victim and now this. I'm pretty relieved that this shit is getting sorted out but i feel soooooo bad for Clide!  Maybe he should join a proper team like oGs or MVP.
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On August 04 2011 20:49 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either? I agree with this. If they want to get paid they should earn it.
Except, how was the contract written? You can't just withhold money you've agreed to pay someone. Not if you want them to not get really angry at you (and cause all sorts of problems). TSL has shown a really lack of understanding the business part of the scene, badly.
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People need to be rational. This is a separate case from the EG/Puma incident. Even IF Puma wanted to leave TSL due to wages disputes, the argument that EG was in the wrong for approaching the player directly instead of the Coach/Manager still stands logically.
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On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either?
If I do what is contractually required of me I expect my pay. If I do not live up to their expectations I expect them to either cut my future pay or fire me.
The article states that coach Lee lied to the players, withheld salaries and slandered them for not returning their salaries. If the article is accurate, then I feel this is very wrong from coach Lee. If you offer a salary you need to provide it and you can't expect people to return it. Looking forward to a translation from TSL's POV.
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On August 04 2011 20:54 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:53 brachester wrote:On August 04 2011 20:52 zeru wrote:On August 04 2011 20:51 brachester wrote:On August 04 2011 20:49 zeru wrote:On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either? I agree with this. If they want to get paid they should earn it. Sir, you have summed it up perfectly, but legally, it's still wrong, that's why they got expelled. Legally? There's no contracts. There is Source?
Source for there isn't a contract?
Hell they're one of the first team to have salaries for players, ofc there are gonna be contracts for players (TLPD)
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On August 04 2011 20:50 ELA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either? Only got Coach Lee's word for that - FruitDealer and Tester would never go out and dispute that, because of the Confucius-sort of honor code asian people have for leaders/elders
Lots of progamers (which arent in team TSL) tells me that they barely practice at all.
On August 04 2011 20:51 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:49 zeru wrote:On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either? I agree with this. If they want to get paid they should earn it. Sir, you have summed it up perfectly, but legally, it's still wrong, that's why they got expelled.
TSL didnt get expelled, Coach Lee told SC2 Con they're withdrawing.
On August 04 2011 20:51 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either? No, that's not fair. You either keep paying them or tell them to practice X much or you will kick them from the team. Not paying them while still using them for sponsorship is rotten.
Do you really think Coach Lee didnt tell them to practice? For the record, sponorship funds got described after puma situation, which happened after trickster/FD went to Startale. You think a business company dont know about the situation of the team they're sponsoring?
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its fruitdealer and trickster's fault for leaving the best team in the world, oGs...
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Just some tidbits of information:
S2con = SC2's version of KeSPA = Coaches, players association & GOM. They have the power to ban people from GSL/GSTL, make the rules for SC2 atm (referee's) & arbitrate disputes but are pretty lenient on most things. With TSL removed (withdrawn), it's now made up of FoU (Now FXO?), IM, oGs, Prime, ZeNEX, NSHoseo, StarTale & MVP. (SlayerS is not part of this but more like a partner)
SC2pa = players association. The players have a voice in the association that makes the rules so when there's a dispute between players and their teams, they're able to bring it up to s2con for help. The players association is mainly represented by  Junwi, who's the president voted in by most sc2 players at the time. (last year)
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On August 04 2011 20:55 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:49 zeru wrote:On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either? I agree with this. If they want to get paid they should earn it. Except, how was the contract written? You can't just withhold money you've agreed to pay someone. Not if you want them to not get really angry at you (and cause all sorts of problems). TSL has shown a really lack of understanding the business part of the scene, badly.
As far as we know, the players weren't paid based on contracts. Just informal (possibly verbal) agreements.
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Sc2 is still a niche newborn. You can't expect to have good salary without putting in the work honestly in the harsh environment for progamers. It is very competitive and I can see why coach Lee did it despite it being unprofessional in term of contractual business sense.
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On August 04 2011 20:56 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:54 zeru wrote:On August 04 2011 20:53 brachester wrote:On August 04 2011 20:52 zeru wrote:On August 04 2011 20:51 brachester wrote:On August 04 2011 20:49 zeru wrote:On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either? I agree with this. If they want to get paid they should earn it. Sir, you have summed it up perfectly, but legally, it's still wrong, that's why they got expelled. Legally? There's no contracts. There is Source? Source for there isn't a contract? Hell they're one of the first team to have salaries for players, ofc there are gonna be contracts for players (TLPD)
This is not true. The EG/Puma drama told us that TSL don't have contracts with their players. Even those paid salaries.
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On August 04 2011 20:44 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:37 TheSilverfox wrote:
Which teams are members of the SC2 Players Association?
What I can see SlayerS isn't a member of the association as well, is there a reason why it is so? You can read Jessica's response about it here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=236783Just search for association and you'll come upon the paragraph, it only really talks about boxer being involved in it though, and not why slayers as a whole is not participating.
I've read that and it's more an article about why BoxeR chose not to be chairman of the organisation.
I'm still curious about why one of the major teams in Korea, SlayerS, decide not to join the association.
It is kind of weird when two major teams are not part of the player association :/.
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sixjax.Clide? Artosis orgasm
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EPT
