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On August 03 2011 00:18 Joseph123 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 00:13 ToastieNL wrote:On August 03 2011 00:10 Joseph123 wrote:
backwater - no need to explain why
shattered temple - an open field with minerals
taldarim - 6 pool heaven
what the...? 6 Pool heaven!? Scout at 9 and you should be in time to wall of even with FFE, cut probes/cancel nexus if u have to, ur ahead anyways!? lol do you know when the probe reaches the last spot when u scout at 9? pretty sure lings will have arrived at my base by that time yes i hate investing 2 probes in scouting that's 1 of the reasons i hate this map and yes zerg has to click 1a while if i make a mistake i lose the game sounds fair to me
You start walling if you can't scout him first or second.
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Am I the only one who vetoed Shattered because of its close positions?
My other vetoes are Backwater (can't defend your third/forth expansions) and Searing Zone (can't defend your natural in PvZ).
I like the other 2 maps because you can easily FFE on them and in PvT they are also good. Even though the Antiga one has 2 imbalanced positions where you can easily get a gold base.
edit:
lol at the post above me telling people to go for a blind wall-in. that delays your expansion for over a minute o_o
just go for a 9 scout, if you don't scout him first go for 13 forge and scout with a second probe (the probe which built the forge).
go for a 17 nexus 17 gate 17 gas if he played standard, if he's doing an early pool just wall-in
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I got frustrated by four 6 pools in a row in PvZ on Tal'Darim, so I veto'd it.
Searing Crater is the 2nd map, I don't like, because you can't block the ramp on the top left possition with a core/gate/zealot wall-off.
Abbysal ------- because of the impossible to take 3rd vs terran.
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On August 03 2011 00:15 Anihc wrote:
Playing 1 or 2 games is not enough to make a solid judgment.
The only thing that is without a doubt objectively true in this whole thread. I'm not saying no one has, but everyone should try to get a good sample size of the maps before bashing them...
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On August 03 2011 00:26 Xahhk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 00:18 Joseph123 wrote:On August 03 2011 00:13 ToastieNL wrote:On August 03 2011 00:10 Joseph123 wrote:
backwater - no need to explain why
shattered temple - an open field with minerals
taldarim - 6 pool heaven
what the...? 6 Pool heaven!? Scout at 9 and you should be in time to wall of even with FFE, cut probes/cancel nexus if u have to, ur ahead anyways!? lol do you know when the probe reaches the last spot when u scout at 9? pretty sure lings will have arrived at my base by that time yes i hate investing 2 probes in scouting that's 1 of the reasons i hate this map and yes zerg has to click 1a while if i make a mistake i lose the game sounds fair to me You start walling if you can't scout him first or second.
Send your pylon probe and forge probe and you'll see the lings coming in time, worst case scenario you cannon up your minerals and you're at no disadvantage.
Someone asked why Searing is a bad map. In close pos the natural to natural rush distance is super short. It is maybe 2 leapfrogs away for siege tanks. Even with bio you can probably stim from your base to his and still have enough stim to finish off his army in a fight.
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I vetoed Taldarim because PvP and PvR are stupid on it, I can live with everything else.
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On August 03 2011 00:26 Xahhk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 00:18 Joseph123 wrote:On August 03 2011 00:13 ToastieNL wrote:On August 03 2011 00:10 Joseph123 wrote:
backwater - no need to explain why
shattered temple - an open field with minerals
taldarim - 6 pool heaven
what the...? 6 Pool heaven!? Scout at 9 and you should be in time to wall of even with FFE, cut probes/cancel nexus if u have to, ur ahead anyways!? lol do you know when the probe reaches the last spot when u scout at 9? pretty sure lings will have arrived at my base by that time yes i hate investing 2 probes in scouting that's 1 of the reasons i hate this map and yes zerg has to click 1a while if i make a mistake i lose the game sounds fair to me You start walling if you can't scout him first or second.
isnt it standard to scout the last position with a second probe, if you fe and dont scout the zerg at the first position?
if not I might start to 6pool, just to annoy some Protosses (even if i lose 2/3 of my games :D)
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@Anihc
I am top diamond, place 3 at the moment, since some "fat nerds" having a good time at playing whole day, but not beeing successful to get into master, still having more than 100 or 200 points than me.
"Small passageways benefit Protoss a lot more than Zerg."
Of course they do but on the map he muta harras is so annoying and stop blaming me that I dont know how to play, I do very fine, zerg has a lot of trouble the whole game against me, but on that map... you know if blink stalkers have no space to blink and you dont go make a timing push with 2 koloss + stalkers,sentrys, a few zealots, its easy for zerg to overrun you, because he takes a third and the gold as fourth and it takes long for me to get up again, but sure, sometimes he overdrones and my timing push with, I forgot to write, also attack upgrade, works fine.
I just saw that the games on that map I always played against Master Zergs, that could be a point.
"This is the same on any map." I agree, but I have more trouble on backwater gulch, than on e.g. Taldarim Altar, where your 3rd is easy to defend and you have enough space to run, I love big macro maps.
I have to say that some 6 pool zergs really annoy me sometimes, too, but since 9 scout and FFE works very easy and Huk showed us (against Moon right?) in the (GSL?) Final, how easy it is to stop a 6 pool.
"Uhh... try breaking the rocks? It's really easy to get to your 3rd that way..." I have to say I always took the 3rd that was away from my expansion (actually 5th, if gold is 4th), since I watched guys like
"orbtl" - a streamer, destiny and many other P players not taking the 3rd infront of their main.
" Chargelot/HT literally takes no micro to use at all. I don't know how you can say that your micro was better."
For you not, but the high templar control takes a lot micro, also you just think in 1 way, chargelots GO, dude you can turn the charge off to make the enemy overstim, but also to charge in and go back without loosing anything but him producing more units (if zerg), or to fail with spells like fungel growth or emp´s.
"Only true if you go the colossus route. This is completely false though if you go gateway, terran's army is much stronger when together and it's actually in your favor to split armies and fight separate but smaller battles."
In this game I had chargelots, sentrys, stalkers, HT´s and dt´s on 2 base, he was on 2 base, too.
But to engage good with storms and my units and stopping him to land emp´s with his ghosts, I split up my army at the natural and what he did was very easy:
That´s why I hate all terrans who have 0 abbility to make a drop play, since they are just too bad, they decide to go for upgrades, MMM until they think they have enough and randomly attack, no timing, no nothing, they just see "oh, protoss split his army to make storms and let all chargelots engage at the same time, so I gonna go to one side, press "y" for stim (or any hotkey they have for it), press "a" to attack, destroy the one half of the army in seconds and then press again stim and attack."
You can make the best feedbacks on medivacs and storms, but he just right clicks you to the death.
To that game: I had better upgrads 2/2. he 1/1 (although he did earlier engineering bay) and his army was like 50 mareueders, 20 marines, 10 medivacs.
Mine: 70 chargelots, 8 HT´s, 4-5 dt´s, 3-4 archons, 6 sentrys, 4-6 stalkers.
I often feel my self lost into PvT´s where I have 3/3 upgrades, stronger armys, more workers, but terran just decides to stim right click and wait 10 secs until protoss army is dead.
I agree with the fact, that I should those maps some more often, but the win rate on those maps is much higher for terran and protoss.
Since you wanted to know how my winrates are:
Against Zerg around 60%
Against Terran around 80%
Against Protoss around 85%
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Ive Vetoed:
Typhon Peaks: (my favorite PvZ opening on that map is 1 gate FE, and holding off speedling-all-ins on that map was a bitch..... so i vetoed it for the time being... (Otherwise i like this map for the most part)
Xel-Naga Caverns: (i still get a little frame rate on this map, also not a fan of playing PvT due to terran always going for these huge all-ins or just dropping a PF on the gold
*Considering* Nerazim crypt: Im still unsure how i feel about this map, ive played more PvP on it then any other matchup so i havent really had the chance to test it out (Probably because of all the vetoes)
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On August 03 2011 00:42 Amoment wrote:
Since you wanted to know how my winrates are:
Against Zerg around 60%
Against Terran around 80%
Against Protoss around 85%
I didn't ask about your win rates, but thanks for sharing anyway. Looks like you'll be promoted soon!
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I veto Searing Crater (it sucks), Xel Naga Caverns (tired of this old set spawn points) and Sattered Temple (small map and wide open middle with large cliffs for reapers).
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Searing, and backwater. Im debating on vetoing Antiga. It is horribly imba for terran, but I just really like it esthetically.
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So far I have not vetoed anything, but I do keep getting the same map for almost every game... Don't mind too much about maps though, gotta practice them sooner or later ey?
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As a master player:
Backwater Gulch,Searing Crater:
I dont like the design of the natural expansion, with its rocks and three different path.
Nerazim Crypt:
For me this maps sucks in PvT and especially in PvZ.
Lost 7/9 games played on this map, then i decided to veto it.
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On August 03 2011 00:18 Joseph123 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 00:13 ToastieNL wrote:On August 03 2011 00:10 Joseph123 wrote:
backwater - no need to explain why
shattered temple - an open field with minerals
taldarim - 6 pool heaven
what the...? 6 Pool heaven!? Scout at 9 and you should be in time to wall of even with FFE, cut probes/cancel nexus if u have to, ur ahead anyways!? lol do you know when the probe reaches the last spot when u scout at 9? pretty sure lings will have arrived at my base by that time yes i hate investing 2 probes in scouting that's 1 of the reasons i hate this map and yes zerg has to click 1a while if i make a mistake i lose the game sounds fair to me
This is just silly. You don't have to invest 2 probes in scouting on Tal'darim to be safe from a 6-pool. To the best of my knowledge (I believe this was the scenario I played out a few days ago), you have time to get a cannon up at your forge and a plyon built in your mineral line if you 9-scout, even if you scout Zerg last, and then it's just a matter of some pretty easy worker micro to keep your workers and cannon alive until the cannon finishes. And you have a 66% chance of scouting the pool even earlier and having an even easier time responding to it.
And if Zerg 6-pools you and just does a 1a into your probe line, you've won already. The number of probes you have when an early pool's lings hit on a map that big is more than enough to simply kill the lings off. I get that early pools are annoying if you don't know how to deal with them, but saying the Zerg can just 1-a and it's super hard to defend is just mischaracterizing the situation.
Back OT: I don't have any vetos yet, but I'm very, very close to vetoing Backwater. I actually have a decent winrate in every matchup on that map, but I just can't stand it. Walling off makes my teeth itch, and there's simply nothing fun about playing on the map. I'm witholding judgement a few weeks on Searing Crater - I find it fun because of its very odd layout, but I've only rolled cross positions on it so far, and I have the feeling that close positions could be pretty silly.
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The only map I've ever felt like I really wanted to veto as protoss was Scrap Station. PvP on Tal'darim sucks too but it's a fun map for the other matchups so I put up with it.
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isn't searing like super protoss favored though? :p or do you people vote it cause it's just a bad map
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Despite for the obvious Backwater Gulch and Searing Crater I also veto'd Xel'Naga Caverns this season. Besides the obvious reason of the wide natural and the amazing need for people to cheese on this map I guess I also jumped on the Blizzard ride with wanting a new map pool..
It was either that or Antiga Shipyard, which is also not the best but should be given a slight chance for being a new map.
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searing and abyssal caverns for me. i like abyssal vs zerg but against terran your natural 3rd base is so far away that harrassment-based terrans are hard to play against, and just not a fan of searing as a whole
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I thought Antiga Shipyard was supposed to be their "macro" map? I vetoed Searing Gulch already. The rush distance is tiiiiiny and while the natural feels protected and insulated, any failed push inevitably leads to a counter push that kills you. Small 1 push 1 kill map. No thanks.
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EPT
