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On July 31 2011 02:37 StRyKeR wrote:
The growth of ESPORTS requires contributions from both the community and the event sponsors. We can't just sit around wanting everything to be free and expect there to be an awesome event. Let's be frank and admit that we want ESPORTS as badly as they do.
MLG has done a great job so far. I'm confident that it will improve. Let's not overreact and cut off our noses to spite our face.
it HASNT improved though. This event offers less than the last MLG event.
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On July 31 2011 01:58 SMD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 01:47 hdan wrote:On July 31 2011 01:37 Fishriot wrote:On July 31 2011 01:25 hdan wrote:On July 30 2011 23:55 Fishriot wrote:On July 30 2011 23:50 hdan wrote:On July 30 2011 23:33 Hamzilla wrote:
what the hell is so hard to understand. This is a million dollar investment. If you dont please the investors then you are done. MLG will be over. After a certain point the community needs to turn profits for them. I hate this damn evil corporation mentality that comes with TL/reddit. Guess what, if you wanna be legit we need an "evil corporation." Who do you think is making MLG possible...those evil investors.
Grow the heck up ppl, incontrol included. MLG is a legit business and e-sports needs that. 100,000 subscribers isnt some nice perk, its going to be necessary eventually. They need over $3,000,000 to pay more than $14,000 in prizes to the people that make them the majority of that $3,000,000, what a total joke, especially considering the players themselves already pay more than $14,000 in tournament entrance fees. Seems to me the only way to increase the players prize pool is to increase the players entrance fees, Maybe if they pay $150 each they can up the prize pool to $28,000 You sound like you think that the only expense that MLG has is paying out its Starcraft 2 players. You understand that in order to run an organization like MLG that employees, transportation, and venues also have to be paid for, correct? Thanks to the other people that finally understood the point I was trying to make, but in the mean time, you do realise that $14k is less than 0.5% of $3mil What my post said was that SC2 prize money wasn't their only expense. As has been stated many times previously in this thread, MLG's total prize pool (for all of their games, not just SC2) is over $800,000. That 14k you brought up is the prize pool from one event from one of their games. The subscriptions to MLG gold are to finance an entire year of events, not just a single event. Yes well you would hope that the subscriptions werent the only money that comes in to MLG too I was just trying to make a point about the ratio of money required to be spent on MLG stuff by us in order to increase the prizes earned by the players, you know supporting eSports and players etc. So for every $10 you spend on MLG merch, streams etc maybe 50c will go to the starcraft players themselves. Maybe, of course noone has exact numbers at all, So who knows. I think that the quality of games has been fantastic at MLG and the quality of the event has been steadily getting better I never questioned that I just think the players deserve better prizes and that compared to all other international tournaments MLG winners are drastically underpaid comparitively. How about just answer this, do you think it is fair that the players are asked to pay more to enter the tournament than they give out in prize pool? Do you think it is fair that MLG spends more money on bringing in 2 Code S players and a Code A player and a Code B player from Korea than the prize pool available, especially considering that many european teams eat the cost of sending their players over despite how small the prizes are for the actual players. Do you think that Starcraft is responsible for more than 30% of the various income (about what they gets with COD and Halo taking the other 70%) MLG gets.. whether through streams payments advertising whatever. My point is for all the fantastic games they are playing all the hard training they put in and the costs the teams themselves have to eat with entry fees flights and accomodation the players dont get enough money. Lets Calculate, Its 70$? dollars to enter?(or is it 80? anyways) so each tournament they take in 70x 256 (pool players dont pay) = 17920 or 80x256 = 20480 this is for starcraft alone. wach event they give out...14000? but what no one is discussing is the national championship where their handing out..(100,000? or more im not sure.) so if during 6 events they make: 6x80x256 = 122880 and they give out 5x14000 + 100,000 = 190,000 where do you come up with " they dont give out everything the players pay in" They said the circuit events were lower prize pool BECAUSE of the big national championship. Sundance has ALSO said, he would like to increase circuit events both in prize pool, as well as number of them next year. I just think the claims of "you don't even pay the players back their entrance" is ludicris, and had to prove it wrong.
the debate is really dumb in my opinion, MLG can do whatever they want and as far as I am concerned they really give the material we want.
But this post, omg come on, you have no sense of economy or what-so-ever, as an accountant I laughed reading through your post.
If you don't have any idea how revenue/money work, don't try to make yourself an expert
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Let me be clear. That sundance said this doesn't bother me. What does is that I can't see needing this much income from this revenue stream as good.
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On July 31 2011 01:50 jenzebubble wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 01:48 zocktol wrote:On July 31 2011 01:43 vertical101 wrote:
HSC 3 have less sponsor,premium member and not big as MLG, but still manage to make half of prize pool of MLG-$14k - HSC3 $7K, why is that? HSC was mainly based on volunteers for admin etc. HSC had not had to rent a venue. HSC only had a SC2 tournament. Those are some of the things, that make MLG need to have more money to put out the same or more money as a prize pool. If MLG is losing money on venues then they are doing it wrong. Between gate and concessions they should be making a nice profit. HSC didn't have these revenue streams, so it actually hurt them in a sense.
Gate and concessions? What are you, a 12 year old who runs a lemonade stand?
Come back when you reach adulthood and realize how big-boy money works.
MLG does not hold a monopoly on gaming tournaments. All it takes it some dudes / duddettes with some capital to roll in, and set up their own LAN tournaments. MLG would either die at this point (as has been the case with EVERY OTHER gaming league in North America), or they would RAISE THE PRIZE MONEY to satisfy the customers (akin to lowering the price of a product).
Market is more or less competitive. MLG has to produce a better product than the competitors, or die. So far, they've succeeded.
Edit: LOL. And I was just thinking - we've already seen some dudes / duddettes roll in, and try to take over the NA tournament scene, and fail.
Yep, NASL.
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Why is increased prize pool needed? Players are happily joining this tournament and player passes are sold out every single mlg. There's no competition either. Pro gamers are cheap they dont have many choices if they want to do this and pro gamers arent doing this for the tournament winnings. So why increase prize pool?
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On July 31 2011 02:14 hdan wrote:
Ok so their actual prize pool is $67,000 over 6 events so $11,000 per event. Do you think that is worthwhile compared to other international events, and that the players attending receive enough money, taking into account all the flights and accomodation the teams pay, the training each player puts in? What do you think the total payout over 6 events averages, Dreamhack, IEM, or GSL even, oh wait ,I think they all pay over $11,000 each just for first place. Hmm.
How do you come up with such a stupid interpretation of this? No, their actual prize pool is $190 000 (or whatever the guy before you stated). You never count the entrance fees because everyone attending is willing to risk that money to play. Also, I'm pretty sure IEM's total budget over a year for prize money is around 600 000 while MLG's is around 800 000. Whether more or less of that 800 000 should go to starcraft is something sundance should decide.
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On July 31 2011 02:30 hdan wrote:
Its just funny that MLG overheads seem to be 10 times everyone elses.Im sure for 3 million in stream sales everyone else would increase their prize pools a hell of a lot more than MLG
Then we would be watching their tournament (because they would obviously be producing a better product and attracting top pro away from MLG with all that cash they are giving away), and not MLG. Seriously, where do you kids live that it is not required for you to pass the 8th grade?
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:
You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit.
No offence, but the VoDs need to be higher resolution, organized in a better way (OMG just check out how easy to use gomtv.net vod system is!!!), and there need to be much more games for me to be willing to buy the ticket.
Right now I can't even watch all the games I'd love to see (Ret's games?!), and there are 0 VoDs or replays from the open bracket ...
I'm someone who's been buying every single GSL/GSTL season ticket, because I know I will be able to watch easily accessible *high quality* VoDs, anytime I want, that are organized in a spoiler-free way. Very important for me.
Using my boyfriend's ticket to watch this MLG, but so far I don't see much that would make me pay for my own ticket so far...
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I bought a membership for the glory of ESPORTS.
And for all of you amateur economists saying that memberships don't matter, take some hard facts in your face. If every person on the Earth bought an MLG membership, they would be able to afford over 100 billion dollars in their prize pool for Starcraft. Fact.
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On July 31 2011 02:59 Railin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:
You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. No offence, but the VoDs need to be higher resolution, organized in a better way (OMG just check out how easy to use gomtv.net vod system is!!!), and there need to be much more games for me to be willing to buy the ticket. Right now I can't even watch all the games I'd love to see (Ret's games?!), and there are 0 VoDs or replays from the open bracket ... I'm someone who's been buying every single GSL/GSTL season ticket, because I know I will be able to watch easily accessible *high quality* VoDs, anytime I want, that are organized in a spoiler-free way. Very important for me. Using my boyfriend's ticket to watch this MLG, but so far I don't see much that would make me pay for my own ticket so far...
This a million times over...
You can be fanboys and scream ESPORTS all you want but the bottom line is the VODS suck they are not even in HD. If he wants more people to support MLG he needs to fix their godawful site.
That being said I would be more than happy to support their great product if and when that happens. Until then there are competitors out there ie. GSL who are getting my money because they deserve it.
TLDR : Earn my money(PLEASE)
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On July 31 2011 03:05 groms wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 02:59 Railin wrote:On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:
You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. No offence, but the VoDs need to be higher resolution, organized in a better way (OMG just check out how easy to use gomtv.net vod system is!!!), and there need to be much more games for me to be willing to buy the ticket. Right now I can't even watch all the games I'd love to see (Ret's games?!), and there are 0 VoDs or replays from the open bracket ... I'm someone who's been buying every single GSL/GSTL season ticket, because I know I will be able to watch easily accessible *high quality* VoDs, anytime I want, that are organized in a spoiler-free way. Very important for me. Using my boyfriend's ticket to watch this MLG, but so far I don't see much that would make me pay for my own ticket so far... You can be fanboys and scream ESPORTS all you want but the bottom line is the VODS suck they are not even in HD. If he wants more people to support MLG he needs to fix their godawful site.
Got to agree with this, I never got to MLG's site to check brackets or tournament schedules because it's such a fucking nightmare to navigate. I've done it plenty of times and I still don't remember how to get around it. A fanbased TL thread shouldn't be the only decent way to see what's going on in an MLG tournament, be it for VODs or bloody pricing.
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On July 31 2011 03:05 groms wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 02:59 Railin wrote:On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:
You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. No offence, but the VoDs need to be higher resolution, organized in a better way (OMG just check out how easy to use gomtv.net vod system is!!!), and there need to be much more games for me to be willing to buy the ticket. Right now I can't even watch all the games I'd love to see (Ret's games?!), and there are 0 VoDs or replays from the open bracket ... I'm someone who's been buying every single GSL/GSTL season ticket, because I know I will be able to watch easily accessible *high quality* VoDs, anytime I want, that are organized in a spoiler-free way. Very important for me. Using my boyfriend's ticket to watch this MLG, but so far I don't see much that would make me pay for my own ticket so far... This a million times over... You can be fanboys and scream ESPORTS all you want but the bottom line is the VODS suck they are not even in HD. If he wants more people to support MLG he needs to fix their godawful site. That being said I would be more than happy to support their great product if and when that happens. Until then there are competitors out there ie. GSL who are getting my money because they deserve it. TLDR : Earn my money(PLEASE)
Well, they are asking for feedback on their new sc2 site ( http://sc2.majorleaguegaming.com/ ) so go ahead and give them the feedback they need. As for the stream/vod quality...I got what I paid for..HQ, if you were expecting HD then you must have misread somewhere.
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On July 31 2011 03:15 Quetz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 03:05 groms wrote:On July 31 2011 02:59 Railin wrote:On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:
You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. No offence, but the VoDs need to be higher resolution, organized in a better way (OMG just check out how easy to use gomtv.net vod system is!!!), and there need to be much more games for me to be willing to buy the ticket. Right now I can't even watch all the games I'd love to see (Ret's games?!), and there are 0 VoDs or replays from the open bracket ... I'm someone who's been buying every single GSL/GSTL season ticket, because I know I will be able to watch easily accessible *high quality* VoDs, anytime I want, that are organized in a spoiler-free way. Very important for me. Using my boyfriend's ticket to watch this MLG, but so far I don't see much that would make me pay for my own ticket so far... This a million times over... You can be fanboys and scream ESPORTS all you want but the bottom line is the VODS suck they are not even in HD. If he wants more people to support MLG he needs to fix their godawful site. That being said I would be more than happy to support their great product if and when that happens. Until then there are competitors out there ie. GSL who are getting my money because they deserve it. TLDR : Earn my money(PLEASE) Well, they are asking for feedback on their new sc2 site ( http://sc2.majorleaguegaming.com/ ) so go ahead and give them the feedback they need. As for the stream/vod quality...I got what I paid for..HQ, if you were expecting HD then you must have misread somewhere.
Thanks for the link. I will go post some suggestions there.
Also I am aware they do not advertise HD I am just hoping that they will move towards that model soon(hopefully for 2012 season?).
Anyhow games starting now so gonna go watch
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On July 31 2011 03:07 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 03:05 groms wrote:On July 31 2011 02:59 Railin wrote:On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:
You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. No offence, but the VoDs need to be higher resolution, organized in a better way (OMG just check out how easy to use gomtv.net vod system is!!!), and there need to be much more games for me to be willing to buy the ticket. Right now I can't even watch all the games I'd love to see (Ret's games?!), and there are 0 VoDs or replays from the open bracket ... I'm someone who's been buying every single GSL/GSTL season ticket, because I know I will be able to watch easily accessible *high quality* VoDs, anytime I want, that are organized in a spoiler-free way. Very important for me. Using my boyfriend's ticket to watch this MLG, but so far I don't see much that would make me pay for my own ticket so far... You can be fanboys and scream ESPORTS all you want but the bottom line is the VODS suck they are not even in HD. If he wants more people to support MLG he needs to fix their godawful site. Got to agree with this, I never got to MLG's site to check brackets or tournament schedules because it's such a fucking nightmare to navigate. I've done it plenty of times and I still don't remember how to get around it. A fanbased TL thread shouldn't be the only decent way to see what's going on in an MLG tournament, be it for VODs or bloody pricing.
The stream schedule, brackets and VODs are all linked directly from the same page as the video embed. The brackets are directly below the player and the stream schedule is directly to the right of the player. Curious to know how they could make it more obvious where to click.
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On July 31 2011 03:17 Quetz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 03:07 vyyye wrote:On July 31 2011 03:05 groms wrote:On July 31 2011 02:59 Railin wrote:On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:
You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. No offence, but the VoDs need to be higher resolution, organized in a better way (OMG just check out how easy to use gomtv.net vod system is!!!), and there need to be much more games for me to be willing to buy the ticket. Right now I can't even watch all the games I'd love to see (Ret's games?!), and there are 0 VoDs or replays from the open bracket ... I'm someone who's been buying every single GSL/GSTL season ticket, because I know I will be able to watch easily accessible *high quality* VoDs, anytime I want, that are organized in a spoiler-free way. Very important for me. Using my boyfriend's ticket to watch this MLG, but so far I don't see much that would make me pay for my own ticket so far... You can be fanboys and scream ESPORTS all you want but the bottom line is the VODS suck they are not even in HD. If he wants more people to support MLG he needs to fix their godawful site. Got to agree with this, I never got to MLG's site to check brackets or tournament schedules because it's such a fucking nightmare to navigate. I've done it plenty of times and I still don't remember how to get around it. A fanbased TL thread shouldn't be the only decent way to see what's going on in an MLG tournament, be it for VODs or bloody pricing. The stream schedule, brackets and VODs are all linked directly from the same page as the video embed. The brackets are directly below the player and the stream schedule is directly to the right of the player. Curious to know how they could make it more obvious where to click.
OH one last thought if you are looking for that info save yourself the time and use TL's version it is way better and is updated faster. http://www.teamliquid.net/mlg/
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The current value of the American Peso make this a steal!
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On July 31 2011 03:17 Quetz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 03:07 vyyye wrote:On July 31 2011 03:05 groms wrote:On July 31 2011 02:59 Railin wrote:On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:
You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. No offence, but the VoDs need to be higher resolution, organized in a better way (OMG just check out how easy to use gomtv.net vod system is!!!), and there need to be much more games for me to be willing to buy the ticket. Right now I can't even watch all the games I'd love to see (Ret's games?!), and there are 0 VoDs or replays from the open bracket ... I'm someone who's been buying every single GSL/GSTL season ticket, because I know I will be able to watch easily accessible *high quality* VoDs, anytime I want, that are organized in a spoiler-free way. Very important for me. Using my boyfriend's ticket to watch this MLG, but so far I don't see much that would make me pay for my own ticket so far... You can be fanboys and scream ESPORTS all you want but the bottom line is the VODS suck they are not even in HD. If he wants more people to support MLG he needs to fix their godawful site. Got to agree with this, I never got to MLG's site to check brackets or tournament schedules because it's such a fucking nightmare to navigate. I've done it plenty of times and I still don't remember how to get around it. A fanbased TL thread shouldn't be the only decent way to see what's going on in an MLG tournament, be it for VODs or bloody pricing. The stream schedule, brackets and VODs are all linked directly from the same page as the video embed. The brackets are directly below the player and the stream schedule is directly to the right of the player. Curious to know how they could make it more obvious where to click.
Right you are. I spoke too soon, seems they have updated the website for Anaheim. If they let me watch both HD red and blue stream at the same time I won't really have anything to complain about.
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On July 31 2011 02:56 applejuice wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 02:30 hdan wrote:
Its just funny that MLG overheads seem to be 10 times everyone elses.Im sure for 3 million in stream sales everyone else would increase their prize pools a hell of a lot more than MLG Then we would be watching their tournament (because they would obviously be producing a better product and attracting top pro away from MLG with all that cash they are giving away), and not MLG. Seriously, where do you kids live that it is not required for you to pass the 8th grade?
I know a lot of people feel they can get away with a lot of shit while many staff members are away, but if I were you I would stop talking down people to make your point. You might last a little longer here.
I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with what you said, but after reading a few of your posts you need to change your attitude.
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I just want to see my MMA replays, and i feel this is a major reason why i don't get them. >: (
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I purchased Gold today <3
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EPT
