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On July 30 2011 07:32 Nemireck wrote:
inControl said in an earlier post that Sundance should have simply asked people to "Buy MLG subscriptions to support e-sports!". Bullshit. It's too vague, provides no practical reason for purchasing the sub, and really, why should we "support e-sports" to begin with?
"Buy passes to support the players and allow us to run bigger and better events." That's something I can buy into. Sundance has asked us to buy tickets, and given us a reason why we should. It's a basic business strategy because it WORKS. Look at the new NHL team in Winnipeg. Betman said "We need to sell 11000 season tickets to make this a worthwhile venture, prove to us that you deserve this team." And in within 3 days, they'd hit that goal. Do you think they would have done so well if Betman had just said "Buy season tickets to support your team!!!" HELL NO!
Sundance, keep doing what you're doing man. It's clear that you have a vision, and strategy in place to reach that goal. If you don't succeed, no one will ever be able to say it's due to a lack of effort.
I almost wanna print this, frame it and put it on my wall because Nemireck fucking gets it and nailed it without typing a wall of text. This made it worthwhile reading this thread.
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On July 31 2011 01:27 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 01:24 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 31 2011 01:07 tooPrime wrote:On July 31 2011 00:17 getSome[703] wrote:On July 31 2011 00:09 Tomken wrote:On July 30 2011 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:On July 30 2011 05:26 Domination wrote:
Incontrol, the man who hyped NASL as the greatest thing since sliced bread and how we need to support it with our wallets, is mad at another man's "business ploy". Not sure what to say about that but I am certainly entertained. Not sure why hyping nasl means i cannot be critical of other leagues. When i encouraged people to support nasl I said so we can do more of them... Not to raise the prizepool. Read syndances post... He essentially meant to say "so we can do more mlgs" not anything about the prizepool. http://twitter.com/#!/EGiNcontroL/status/83642926789431296 Oh god the hypocrisy is just overwhelming. pretty classy when an organizer of TSL3 NASL openly criticizes another league! Grow up Ken Geoff. Technically Geoff isn't the organizer and he it's associated with it anymore. I dunno man. Preferential treatment when picking the casters, the players and employing his girlfriend would strongly indicate that he is. Geoff defending NASL and attacking other tournament's organizer's and then claiming he isnt associated with NASL is a shameless act only a fool will believe. There is a reason even lowest tier lottery employees(for example) arent allowed to play in the lottery. Geoff is one of NASL organizers. Period. No I'm not/wasn't lol
dealing in handshake agreements doesn't cancel out the obvious. You've confused your demographic i think, nobody here watches Fox news.
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quit putting lol after you try to defend your statements. no one cares. you suck at sc2 and are a shit caster. You shouldnt have put down TB or made that statement and you shouldnt be such a condescending dick.
User was temp banned for this post.
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hey incontrol how's MLG going for you so far? huge fan. think you can get 4th place again?
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On July 31 2011 01:26 iNcontroL wrote:
Uhhh my comment wasn't trying to bring him down lol
This just in, Inc deals a major blow to society, apparently after many people got upset with him over his comment, he clearly tells us that he only meant to insult Sundance as a way to bringing him up, what a classy fellow!
In other news, pigs are flying in New Mexico? It's more likely than you think! Tune in at 11!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Conspiracy theories only make you sound dumber  your evidence for me being involved in the decision making id laughable. Did you know Anna is about to be hired by several organizations I don't deal with? Odd... She's a girl right? Only way she
Can get a job in esports is through me eh? Not the case. But I am wasting my time with you. You have always been a hater who gives nothing back. Keep at it bro!
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On July 31 2011 01:34 iNcontroL wrote:Conspiracy theories only make you sound dumber your evidence for me being involved in the decision making id laughable. Did you know Anna is about to be hired by several organizations I don't deal with? Odd... She's a girl right? Only way she Can get a job in esports is through me eh? Not the case. But I am wasting my time with you. You have always been a hater who gives nothing back. Keep at it bro!
How's sex with Anna? Oh wait, never mind.
User was warned for this post
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 31 2011 00:39 kentarre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 23:50 hdan wrote:
They need over $3,000,000 to pay more than $14,000 in prizes to the people that make them the majority of that $3,000,000, what a total joke, especially considering the players themselves already pay more than $14,000 in tournament entrance fees. Seems to me the only way to increase the players prize pool is to increase the players entrance fees, Maybe if they pay $150 each they can up the prize pool to $28,000
You do realize that its not just Starcraft 2 that MLG is supporting, but Halo Reach and Call of Duty: Black Ops? The total prize pool for the entire year over all 3 games and all events is ~$806,000 dollars. The final event alone, SC2 has a $120,000 dollar prize pool. Black Ops actually has a $140,000 prize pool but since that is split per person SC2 has a higher capita per player. $30 for 6 events, is a $5 pass for each event. If you compare it to the GSL Code S, that is a direct competitive amount. GSL Code S is 7 events per year totaling in ~$830,000 total prize money. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 . Yes that is for 1 game, however the intent of each league is the same. To promote a competitive eSports environment, to do that in the West you need to also appeal to the FPS crowd which is what MLG has done.
I realise all those things, but do you realise what MLG was before the release of starcraft 2? IT was barely afloat, and since incorporating starcraft 2 attendance has exploded and paid subscriptions have gone nuts and I wouldnt be surprised if starcraft 2 was resposible for 80% if not more of the income for the entire event, also the costs associated with bringing in primarily american Halo/COD teams vs International Starcraft 2 players are huge, meaning if not for the team paying their flights, how many Starcraft international pros would actually come to MLG for the prize money... Maybe 1 or 2 if they were sure they would get top2 I would guess, all it means is that the players themselves are being denied the prize money they are worth and their teams have to eat even more costs to provide for them
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On July 31 2011 01:25 hdan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 23:55 Fishriot wrote:On July 30 2011 23:50 hdan wrote:On July 30 2011 23:33 Hamzilla wrote:
what the hell is so hard to understand. This is a million dollar investment. If you dont please the investors then you are done. MLG will be over. After a certain point the community needs to turn profits for them. I hate this damn evil corporation mentality that comes with TL/reddit. Guess what, if you wanna be legit we need an "evil corporation." Who do you think is making MLG possible...those evil investors.
Grow the heck up ppl, incontrol included. MLG is a legit business and e-sports needs that. 100,000 subscribers isnt some nice perk, its going to be necessary eventually. They need over $3,000,000 to pay more than $14,000 in prizes to the people that make them the majority of that $3,000,000, what a total joke, especially considering the players themselves already pay more than $14,000 in tournament entrance fees. Seems to me the only way to increase the players prize pool is to increase the players entrance fees, Maybe if they pay $150 each they can up the prize pool to $28,000 You sound like you think that the only expense that MLG has is paying out its Starcraft 2 players. You understand that in order to run an organization like MLG that employees, transportation, and venues also have to be paid for, correct? Thanks to the other people that finally understood the point I was trying to make, but in the mean time, you do realise that $14k is less than 0.5% of $3mil
What my post said was that SC2 prize money wasn't their only expense. As has been stated many times previously in this thread, MLG's total prize pool (for all of their games, not just SC2) is over $800,000. That 14k you brought up is the prize pool from one event from one of their games. The subscriptions to MLG gold are to finance an entire year of events, not just a single event.
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Why the hell is this thread all about incontrol, he made one dumb twitter who cares, shouldnt the issue actually be about whether you think the players all gathered at this MLG who (once their tournament entry fees are included) have a prize pool of less than $0?
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On July 31 2011 01:34 iNcontroL wrote:Conspiracy theories only make you sound dumber your evidence for me being involved in the decision making id laughable. Did you know Anna is about to be hired by several organizations I don't deal with? Odd... She's a girl right? Only way she Can get a job in esports is through me eh? Not the case. But I am wasting my time with you. You have always been a hater who gives nothing back. Keep at it bro!
See, you just can't stop with the double standards.
You hate on Sundance, you hate on MLG, hate on Slasher or whomever, i've lost track of how many people you pick up beef with.
And i'm somehow a hater for pointing the finger at your hating?
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On July 31 2011 01:24 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 01:07 tooPrime wrote:On July 31 2011 00:17 getSome[703] wrote:On July 31 2011 00:09 Tomken wrote:On July 30 2011 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:On July 30 2011 05:26 Domination wrote:
Incontrol, the man who hyped NASL as the greatest thing since sliced bread and how we need to support it with our wallets, is mad at another man's "business ploy". Not sure what to say about that but I am certainly entertained. Not sure why hyping nasl means i cannot be critical of other leagues. When i encouraged people to support nasl I said so we can do more of them... Not to raise the prizepool. Read syndances post... He essentially meant to say "so we can do more mlgs" not anything about the prizepool. http://twitter.com/#!/EGiNcontroL/status/83642926789431296 Oh god the hypocrisy is just overwhelming. pretty classy when an organizer of TSL3 NASL openly criticizes another league! Grow up Ken Geoff. Technically Geoff isn't the organizer and he it's associated with it anymore. I dunno man. Preferential treatment when picking the casters, the players and employing his girlfriend would strongly indicate that he is. Geoff defending NASL and attacking other tournament's organizer's and then claiming he isnt associated with NASL is a shameless act only a fool will believe. There is a reason even lowest tier lottery employees(for example) arent allowed to play in the lottery. Geoff is one of NASL organizers. Period.
well said. incontrol should look in the mirror before he comments on another league. NASL was a flop minus the grand finals and he has the nerve to make a comment like that.. t_t for incontrol, he just keeps losing respect :/
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On July 31 2011 01:34 iNcontroL wrote:
Odd... She's a girl right?
When you start to resort to borderline misogyny to prove your point, I think it's time to rethink your post before submitting it.
iNcontroL, seeing as you were critical of TB taking all of the money he raises and putting it directly to the prize pool (totally transparent) and you're critical of Sundance making an (admittedly obvious) statement that if he sells more memberships he can raise the prize pool, how do you suggest promoters/league heads promote their league/increase prize pools? What should they tell the community?
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Damn it Inc, why did you think your comment was necessary, knowing your stature within the community? Even if you intended for your comment to be taken in jest, you have to had known that people would have taken it in the wrong way and 'drama' would have started. IMO it's the least of your problems you have to deal with!
(the above all IMHO of course..)
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On July 31 2011 01:35 Bunnypanda wrote:
How's sex with Anna? Oh wait, never mind.
Dude now your just acting like a child, cant we keep a single topic on subject anymore?
Prize pool increase is a good thing and needed. I'm not afraid to invest $30 a year into something i believe in and enjoy.
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HSC 3 have less sponsor,premium member and not big as MLG, but still manage to make half of prize pool of MLG-$14k - HSC3 $7K, why is that?
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On July 31 2011 01:43 vertical101 wrote:
HSC 3 have less sponsor,premium member and not big as MLG, but still manage to make half of prize pool of MLG-$14k - HSC3 $7K, why is that?
HSC 3 clearly has substantially less overhead than an MLG event. They may also be paying a higher percentage of the money they raise into the prize pool, but it's pretty obvious that it's not totally fair to compare the two events because of the huge difference in production costs, etc.
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On July 31 2011 01:42 Inkcrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 01:35 Bunnypanda wrote:
How's sex with Anna? Oh wait, never mind. Dude now your just acting like a child, cant we keep a single topic on subject anymore? Prize pool increase is a good thing and needed. I'm not afraid to invest $30 a year into something i believe in and enjoy.
I know that, but how is this any different than what he is doing? He is acting like a petty little kid who just can't have his way 100% of the time. His post was, ridiculous, arrogant and childish. I look forward to seeing him yet again apologize for his comments at a later date.
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On July 31 2011 01:37 Fishriot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 01:25 hdan wrote:On July 30 2011 23:55 Fishriot wrote:On July 30 2011 23:50 hdan wrote:On July 30 2011 23:33 Hamzilla wrote:
what the hell is so hard to understand. This is a million dollar investment. If you dont please the investors then you are done. MLG will be over. After a certain point the community needs to turn profits for them. I hate this damn evil corporation mentality that comes with TL/reddit. Guess what, if you wanna be legit we need an "evil corporation." Who do you think is making MLG possible...those evil investors.
Grow the heck up ppl, incontrol included. MLG is a legit business and e-sports needs that. 100,000 subscribers isnt some nice perk, its going to be necessary eventually. They need over $3,000,000 to pay more than $14,000 in prizes to the people that make them the majority of that $3,000,000, what a total joke, especially considering the players themselves already pay more than $14,000 in tournament entrance fees. Seems to me the only way to increase the players prize pool is to increase the players entrance fees, Maybe if they pay $150 each they can up the prize pool to $28,000 You sound like you think that the only expense that MLG has is paying out its Starcraft 2 players. You understand that in order to run an organization like MLG that employees, transportation, and venues also have to be paid for, correct? Thanks to the other people that finally understood the point I was trying to make, but in the mean time, you do realise that $14k is less than 0.5% of $3mil What my post said was that SC2 prize money wasn't their only expense. As has been stated many times previously in this thread, MLG's total prize pool (for all of their games, not just SC2) is over $800,000. That 14k you brought up is the prize pool from one event from one of their games. The subscriptions to MLG gold are to finance an entire year of events, not just a single event.
Yes well you would hope that the subscriptions werent the only money that comes in to MLG too I was just trying to make a point about the ratio of money required to be spent on MLG stuff by us in order to increase the prizes earned by the players, you know supporting eSports and players etc. So for every $10 you spend on MLG merch, streams etc maybe 50c will go to the starcraft players themselves. Maybe, of course noone has exact numbers at all, So who knows. I think that the quality of games has been fantastic at MLG and the quality of the event has been steadily getting better I never questioned that I just think the players deserve better prizes and that compared to all other international tournaments MLG winners are drastically underpaid comparitively.
How about just answer this, do you think it is fair that the players are asked to pay more to enter the tournament than they give out in prize pool?
Do you think it is fair that MLG spends more money on bringing in 2 Code S players and a Code A player and a Code B player from Korea than the prize pool available, especially considering that many european teams eat the cost of sending their players over despite how small the prizes are for the actual players.
Do you think that Starcraft is responsible for more than 30% of the various income (about what they gets with COD and Halo taking the other 70%) MLG gets.. whether through streams payments advertising whatever.
My point is for all the fantastic games they are playing all the hard training they put in and the costs the teams themselves have to eat with entry fees flights and accomodation the players dont get enough money.
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While everybody is throwing out unsubstantiated theories: iNcontroL and Sundance intentionally created drama in this thread to make sure it got noticed as much as possible.
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EPT
