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On July 28 2011 12:56 DeaTH.1914 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 12:40 Djzapz wrote:On July 28 2011 12:18 Belial88 wrote:
^ Milkis put out a story, translated or not, without the full facts. It was biased, as evident in the reaction that was so different from the reactions in this thread. He should've expected the heat from EG afterwards.
Journalists know to put out stories when all the information is out. Him putting out that article like that is not dissimiliar to all the news organizations crying "MUSLIMS!" with the tragedy in Norway. To continue with your analogy, it's more like "if a brown person is considering saying something without the full facts of the story released yet, he should perhaps hold off" Journalists make sure they have all the information is out before they release it to the public, that's why we didn't hear anything about the tsunami and potential nuclear disaster in Japan until days after it happened. Wait no, they report news right after they happen. First person to squeeze out an interesting paper gets a nice raise. Where have you been all these years? When something interesting and relevant is unclear, online news site will still talk about it. They even hire people to write their opinions about it. You obviously have no idea how journalism works, the Japan tsunami issue is a terrible example it doesn't involve damage to a persons/businesses reputation. If a journalist ever released a story with false details or little to no factual evidence that reflected poorly on an organization, they could very well be sued for their actions at the very least they would be required to publicly apologize and release another separate article with all of the correct information so the same readers don't hold on to that negative opinion.
I wonder how much Milkis is paid to translate what people say... (lol) but you obviously have no idea how journalism works... They'll get away with a lot of stuff and usually win in court because claims tend to be frivolous.
And yet we're talking about professional journalists... A dude on a blog could slander the hell out of a company and nobody will lift a finger. Milkis didn't even come close to crossing a line.
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On July 27 2011 09:37 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 09:26 Random321321 wrote:
See, it wouldn't bother me so much if Sir Alex simply said "EG is a business, and we will do whatever it takes to succeed, and we do not care about the feelings of others." But, he doesn't say that, he spends 18 paragraphs ducking, dodging, and deflecting. I find this passive-aggressive attitude much more annoying than just being straightforwardly greedy and ruthless. Definitely agree with this. Just be honest.. :/
i thought alex/EG didn't handle the sotg situation very well, and it made me pretty skeptical of EG's ethics... but in this puma signing, EG really seems justified, and i also thought alex did a good job of explaining everything, besides being a little repetitive. my 2c
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lol
The OP is just a bunch of dilly dallying and dodging, it's an apology without the apology.
I can't like EG anymore. After listening to WOC, I just can't stand the team anymore. Hey, Alex, here's a hint:
Just because you say you're not asking a loaded question and being accusatory does NOT mean you are not asking a loaded question and being accusatory.
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So Evil Geniuses essentially signed a free agent and someone misunderstood something? I don't understand why everyone was freaking out.
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good to hear both sides of the stories. I think it's also important to understand cultural differences, and this will 100% reccur i'm sure.
also, tl'dr goes at the top of a post, not at the bottom 
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I will just say one thing, if Milkis is only a translator, why is he demanding his POV to SirScoots? Doesnt he only translate articles? I really dont have anything against the guy, and I absolutely loved him in Mlg (July: will you be there with me at NASL LOL).
EGAlex got a lot of shit, but I really think this tweet proves that what he said is more or less true, because the moment you are asking publicly for some of the parts involved in the matter to speak,
you are not just a translator anymore-
@SirScoots I'm at the edge of my seat here waiting to hear EG's side to clear up the story T_T
and if people say "he already asked all parts, he HAD to include EG" then again, why is he doing this? Not that I find it wrong, but this is was Alex was telling him and it seemedhe was accusing him of obscure things.
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On July 28 2011 09:38 Belial88 wrote:
What difference does it make - I mean suppose they did go to Puma to try to steal him.
Isn't that what teams and businesses are supposed to do? Wouldn't that be a great boon to foreign e-sports? SC is a cutthroat game, and if teams had rivalries it wouldn't be any different. Having a player like Puma on EG would be a great thing, and they shouldn't have to be shy in trying to get a great player, no matter how they did it. If TSL was such a bad team that they couldn't hold on to him, then that's their fault.
And it didn't even go down like that. Why the hell are people so upset about this matter? It's just ridiculous how many people just sit behind a computer, living some kind of fantasy.
As for the Milkis situation, the translator put out a story that probably shouldn't have been put out. He received heat for it from someone trying to protect their organization, they're livelihood. That's what happens when you post something that makes EG look bad without proper, full information. Don't shoot the messanger, that's such BS when Milkis was obviously supporting a certain point of view. It was obvious what kind of knee jerk reaction the community would had after reading it, and he did nothing to prevent that from happening. Either he was biased or oblivious, both of which would be expected to receive criticism from EG.
Was Alex too harsh? Maybe, but Milkis should have expected that.
Bravo for EG. I think they're handling has been superb, much more an explanation than was necessary in the first place.
Ooooh man, I really hope what you wrote was a kind of trollage you did on purpose...
(and you forgot to add a "USA ! USA ! USA !" at the end of it by the way)
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well they use the fact that "omg no contract no salary it's shoking he deserve better" but what we dont talk about here is the fact that many players in TSL were in that case, even the few players who had a salary choose to give it to the team because they were having some issue. As coach Lee said, this was quite normal to not have every player on contract so dont see this as a big issue but place it in the good context... Anyway, good that EG clarified his side of the story. GL to Puma, EG and TSL in the future.
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anyone got a link to the WOC? want to see it and don't know where to go. PM me if possible thanks!
Obviously he didn't just translate it. He edited his post. If you make a mistake you post an apology. You don't ninja edit.
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I hope that other teams have learned from EG when singing a player
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( THIS POST, IN NO WAY REPRESENTS OPINIONS OF EG OR ANY AFFILIATE ASSOCIATED WITH EG. THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION AND IS WRITTEN AS SUCH. NBG)
I agree 100 Percent and back Alex and his post, most of the post anyways. Giving a private appology was a great idea. And a public apology even better. But what are you really apologizing for.
E-Sports is going to be a huge buisness. Eventually like the NHL, NFL, NBA and other sports. At least here in the states. This means buisness, and buisness ethics will come into play.
1. If a team does not have a contract, then proffesionally, there at fault, and it is literally anything goes. (EG knows this, and thats what makes them professional.)
2. If a player does not have a contract, then he himself is not educated on the ways of buisness and is putting his present, and future at stake. (PUMA is making a great move for his SC2 career and future.)
3. Cultural diffrences are to blame for this situation, but nothing worth apologising for. EG didn't do anything wrong legally, or proffessionally. In fact if this was with a United States team it would have been not a problem at all. But when a foreign team (non korean) pics up a korean player (PUMA) right from one of the top Korean Teams, it hurts the feelings of that team, and in fact 90% of Koreans E-sport Fans. This is on there culture, and not ours. There feelings are hurt, not ours.
4. The apology made should have been this, which was stated, but only this. "I apologize for not approaching Mr. Lee first, though it was our intentions thats not the way it happened. We attempted to make things right, but things were already MEDIA BM and it kept us from fixing the situation earlier. As for our reputation, and professionalism, we have done nothing wrong, and feel we are owed an apology for this damages caused to our reputations in this situation. If we dont get an apology, that will be fine, it just shows that EG is more professional and willing to accept responsibility for our actions while some Korean Teams/Orginizations are not. Thank You".
Anyways, thats how I feel about the situation. Keep in mind thats my opinion, and the quote apology is mine and what I would have stated. Once again this is not the view of EG, though I would hope it was. Keep it up alex, your the only journalist I know that says what he means and deals with the concequences as they come. Thats the best way to be mate. Hang in there.
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Quick question: do pro starcraft players have their own agents or do they tend to be managed by the teams that hire them? Does it differ within Korea and elsewhere?
It seems unclear to me what the difference is between a team as an employer and a team as a career manager in the SC world. This entire situation might be construed as a conflict between the differences in a team management and career management missions. Without personal managers, players would of course be approached directly, unless they have an exclusivity clause in their team contract that bars any such negotiation. I know in the startup world, exclusivity is a major deterrent to signing to new outfits. Companies want it, employees do not.
I don't know enough about the details of these different pro systems, but I can't shake the feeling that the whole thing is wonky to begin with. Doesn't the whole, scoop up a bunch of talented kids and hole them away in a house to train at starcraft, seem a bit wierd?! I would hope the players have options as to legal and independent career representation so that they don't end up as indentured servants of the SC team system.
The Korean Go (Baduk) world has been stymied for generations by a house-team system where talented players get scooped up way before they really have a chance to mature into professionals, they train in houses, largely get discarded en masse, and the few that emerge are beholden to the system, with inadequate independent representation. Then, the tournament system doesn't well distribute prize purses except for the single winners. The result is that most of the Go world languishes to a system that creates very few individual stars, with the rest in a kind of perpetual stasis both financially and career-wise. It seems like the Korean SC system is similar. Only recently have several top Go (Baduk) players tried to shake things up with better compensation and representation for a world of professionals. Starcraft could benefit from the same. International teams are probably the best lure to doing so, if they also foster individual management in addition to team management. It's in everyone's best interest in the long run.
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On July 28 2011 12:56 DeaTH.1914 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 12:40 Djzapz wrote:On July 28 2011 12:18 Belial88 wrote:
^ Milkis put out a story, translated or not, without the full facts. It was biased, as evident in the reaction that was so different from the reactions in this thread. He should've expected the heat from EG afterwards.
Journalists know to put out stories when all the information is out. Him putting out that article like that is not dissimiliar to all the news organizations crying "MUSLIMS!" with the tragedy in Norway. To continue with your analogy, it's more like "if a brown person is considering saying something without the full facts of the story released yet, he should perhaps hold off" Journalists make sure they have all the information is out before they release it to the public, that's why we didn't hear anything about the tsunami and potential nuclear disaster in Japan until days after it happened. Wait no, they report news right after they happen. First person to squeeze out an interesting paper gets a nice raise. Where have you been all these years? When something interesting and relevant is unclear, online news site will still talk about it. They even hire people to write their opinions about it. You obviously have no idea how journalism works, the Japan tsunami issue is a terrible example it doesn't involve damage to a persons/businesses reputation. If a journalist ever released a story with false details or little to no factual evidence that reflected poorly on an organization, they could very well be sued for their actions at the very least they would be required to publicly apologize and release another separate article with all of the correct information so the same readers don't hold on to that negative opinion.
You are clueless if you think EG could actually take Milkis to court and not get laughed out. First, nothing Milkis stated in a factual arena has been proven false. EG Alex doing damage control does not count and proving something false; for the legally inclined amongst you, this is called hearsay. Second, Milkis asked SirScoots if he had a statement. Sir Scoots did not reply. No, Milkis should not have waited the requisite week for EG to cobble together a bunch of empty rhetoric, because that would be a monumental waste of everyone's time. Milkis is not obligated to delay a story until both sides develop a statement. He can come right out wit hthe information he has at the time and not be called dishonest for it because that's the only information available at the time. I'd also like to point out that virtually nothing in Alex's rebuttal dismisses any of the facts presented by Milkis; it just redresses them in such a way that they seem more reasonable. Saying things like 'we agreed that it would be a good first step' are not verifiable nor are they relevant, because what Alex intended to do is altogether different from what he did even if he really did intend to do what he says.
I'm still waiting on a list of facts which Milkis wrongly put forward. List the facts and then list the corresponding evidence which makes said facts false.
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I'm really wondering why people are acting like this is an apology? It's not. All of those who are saying that he's basically bullshitting and saying "I'm sorry but I didn't do anything wrong" are looking at this incorrectly. He's not apologizing for signing PuMa. He does apologize in the statement to Lee for any personal disrespect, but that's as far as it goes. That's why this is titled "EG responds to criticism" not "EG apologize to critics."
If you think he deserves to apologize to the community for the community being sensationalist and blowing the situation way out of proportion, you'll probably be waiting a long time. The community should not get an apology because the community does not deserve an apology.
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I don't see why EG trying to become a more competitive Clan in the Korean scene is being viewed so badly? If I was in EG's position I would be going after these kinds of players as well.
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with this much time delaying a response, i was expecting something much more convincing
whatever, shit happens
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On July 28 2011 15:06 youngminii wrote:
lol
The OP is just a bunch of dilly dallying and dodging, it's an apology without the apology.
I can't like EG anymore. After listening to WOC, I just can't stand the team anymore. Hey, Alex, here's a hint:
Just because you say you're not asking a loaded question and being accusatory does NOT mean you are not asking a loaded question and being accusatory.
Really? After listening to WOC I fully support EG's actions, and wish someone would slap that idiot Milkis for wasting my time. He had nothing to say and DJWheat for some reason just let the guy continue talking without adding anything to the conversation. That was probably the worst/most boring WOC of all time thanks to Milkis.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I like the idea of PuMa being on EG, PuMa will help the EG Practice schedule alot. because hes a very talented terran, and also a good practice partner
gl EG!
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EG did nothing wrong or illegal. Unless puma had a written contract with the team, then he could leave of his own accord at any time. Congrats to EG on a good player.
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EPT
