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On July 28 2011 02:50 Railin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 12:11 DeaTH.1914 wrote:
[EG shouldn't have had to apologize for anything and to anyone saying Milkis deserves an apology, that is laughable. The guy pretty much destroyed the public image of EG's business in one biased post. EG employee?? No other explanation for this laughably biased post. Milkis did not WRITE an article. He merely translated an existing article that he found on the web. He did not invent anything on his own, but merely made accessible a piece of material that anyone could have read via google translate anyway. To accuse the TRANSLATOR of "destroying someone's image" by translating a PUBLICLY AVAILABLE piece of information is beyond ridiculous.
I agreed about Milkis,
but after reading "most" post, I still disagree with the shitstorm EG is currently suffering for getting PuMa!
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On July 28 2011 02:50 Railin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 12:11 DeaTH.1914 wrote:
[EG shouldn't have had to apologize for anything and to anyone saying Milkis deserves an apology, that is laughable. The guy pretty much destroyed the public image of EG's business in one biased post. EG employee?? No other explanation for this laughably biased post. Milkis did not WRITE an article. He merely translated an existing article that he found on the web. He did not invent anything on his own, but merely made accessible a piece of material that anyone could have read via google translate anyway. To accuse the TRANSLATOR of "destroying someone's image" by translating a PUBLICLY AVAILABLE piece of information is beyond ridiculous.
He didn't just translate, he also twisted the information to make EG look bad.
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On July 28 2011 03:13 I4C wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 02:50 Railin wrote:On July 27 2011 12:11 DeaTH.1914 wrote:
[EG shouldn't have had to apologize for anything and to anyone saying Milkis deserves an apology, that is laughable. The guy pretty much destroyed the public image of EG's business in one biased post. EG employee?? No other explanation for this laughably biased post. Milkis did not WRITE an article. He merely translated an existing article that he found on the web. He did not invent anything on his own, but merely made accessible a piece of material that anyone could have read via google translate anyway. To accuse the TRANSLATOR of "destroying someone's image" by translating a PUBLICLY AVAILABLE piece of information is beyond ridiculous. He didn't just translate, he also twisted the information to make EG look bad.
Did Milkis do anything besides translate and give his opinion? In his opinion, did he state anything knowingly false that could damage EG's reputation?
No? Then shut the fuck up because it's not defamation.
User was warned for this post
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On July 28 2011 03:13 I4C wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 02:50 Railin wrote:On July 27 2011 12:11 DeaTH.1914 wrote:
[EG shouldn't have had to apologize for anything and to anyone saying Milkis deserves an apology, that is laughable. The guy pretty much destroyed the public image of EG's business in one biased post. EG employee?? No other explanation for this laughably biased post. Milkis did not WRITE an article. He merely translated an existing article that he found on the web. He did not invent anything on his own, but merely made accessible a piece of material that anyone could have read via google translate anyway. To accuse the TRANSLATOR of "destroying someone's image" by translating a PUBLICLY AVAILABLE piece of information is beyond ridiculous. He didn't just translate, he also twisted the information to make EG look bad.
Then prove it, the PlayXP source is there translate it and show us where he translated incorrectly
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On July 28 2011 03:13 I4C wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 02:50 Railin wrote:On July 27 2011 12:11 DeaTH.1914 wrote:
[EG shouldn't have had to apologize for anything and to anyone saying Milkis deserves an apology, that is laughable. The guy pretty much destroyed the public image of EG's business in one biased post. EG employee?? No other explanation for this laughably biased post. Milkis did not WRITE an article. He merely translated an existing article that he found on the web. He did not invent anything on his own, but merely made accessible a piece of material that anyone could have read via google translate anyway. To accuse the TRANSLATOR of "destroying someone's image" by translating a PUBLICLY AVAILABLE piece of information is beyond ridiculous. He didn't just translate, he also twisted the information to make EG look bad.
2 post troll is an obvious.
I spoke to alex yesterday andhe said he would publicly apologise. So pipe down troll.
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On July 28 2011 03:16 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 03:13 I4C wrote:On July 28 2011 02:50 Railin wrote:On July 27 2011 12:11 DeaTH.1914 wrote:
[EG shouldn't have had to apologize for anything and to anyone saying Milkis deserves an apology, that is laughable. The guy pretty much destroyed the public image of EG's business in one biased post. EG employee?? No other explanation for this laughably biased post. Milkis did not WRITE an article. He merely translated an existing article that he found on the web. He did not invent anything on his own, but merely made accessible a piece of material that anyone could have read via google translate anyway. To accuse the TRANSLATOR of "destroying someone's image" by translating a PUBLICLY AVAILABLE piece of information is beyond ridiculous. He didn't just translate, he also twisted the information to make EG look bad. Then prove it, the PlayXP source is there translate it and show us where he translated incorrectly
He already edited the thread he created with the defamatory information.
From what i remember he implied in the main topic(this wasn't the translation itself)
A: EG signed puma.
B: EG are bad for signing puma and not talking with the coach.
C: hiding information from public, which later alex had to reveal.
He basically hid all the information that favored one side and put all the other one...
After he was called out he corrected it, but it would be great to have unbiased translators from now on.
User was banned for this post.
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I do not believe EG did anything wrong throughout the whole process of acquiring PuMa. So that's that. Thanks for clarifying though, Alex.
About Milkis; I don't think the topic of Internet Journalists should have been brought up on the show. Although I understand Alex's frustration and can see how Milkis is an easy target (if I'm not mistaken, Milkis added comments from seperate organizations, but not EG), confronting him on WoC was a poor decision.
First, I believe that AG's frustration is not only with Milkis, but with a lot of "Internet Journalists" that reveal information to the unique forum system that happens with Starcraft II. He would want a Code of Honor, per se. Because of this, he should have approached his frustration through a separate channel (different episode, or write a second article on TL). There is no easy way for Milkis to discuss the topic without ultimately backing out and feeling pounced on.
However, with that said, I do believe Milkis could have reacted in a much less defensive manner and, quite simply, not responded about the topic at all. Although AG genuinely wanted to ask the question in a very broad indirect sense, he unknowingly placed Milkis in front of a firing squad.
Milkis was put in a very bad situation (he shouldn't have been!) and he should have refused to comment on such a loaded question. Ultimately, he could have become part of a large discussion of "Internet Journalists" describing his role as a translator (and learning not to add bias, else you become a writer) and not lost his credibility by reacting very poorly during a bad situation.
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On July 28 2011 03:15 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 03:13 I4C wrote:On July 28 2011 02:50 Railin wrote:On July 27 2011 12:11 DeaTH.1914 wrote:
[EG shouldn't have had to apologize for anything and to anyone saying Milkis deserves an apology, that is laughable. The guy pretty much destroyed the public image of EG's business in one biased post. EG employee?? No other explanation for this laughably biased post. Milkis did not WRITE an article. He merely translated an existing article that he found on the web. He did not invent anything on his own, but merely made accessible a piece of material that anyone could have read via google translate anyway. To accuse the TRANSLATOR of "destroying someone's image" by translating a PUBLICLY AVAILABLE piece of information is beyond ridiculous. He didn't just translate, he also twisted the information to make EG look bad. Did Milkis do anything besides translate and give his opinion? In his opinion, did he state anything knowingly false that could damage EG's reputation? No? Then shut the fuck up because it's not defamation.
Learn some manners.
Yes he did, i mentioned it in my previous post, after he got caught he corrected it.
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On July 28 2011 03:24 twoCube wrote:
I do not believe EG did anything wrong throughout the whole process of acquiring PuMa. So that's that. Thanks for clarifying though, Alex.
About Milkis; I don't think the topic of Internet Journalists should have been brought up on the show. Although I understand Alex's frustration and can see how Milkis is an easy target (if I'm not mistaken, Milkis added comments from seperate organizations, but not EG), confronting him on WoC was a poor decision.
First, I believe that AG's frustration is not only with Milkis, but with a lot of "Internet Journalists" that reveal information to the unique forum system that happens with Starcraft II. He would want a Code of Honor, per se. Because of this, he should have approached his frustration through a separate channel (different episode, or write a second article on TL). There is no easy way for Milkis to discuss the topic without ultimately backing out and feeling pounced on.
However, with that said, I do believe Milkis could have reacted in a much less defensive manner and, quite simply, not responded about the topic at all. Although AG genuinely wanted to ask the question in a very broad indirect sense, he unknowingly placed Milkis in front of a firing squad.
Milkis was put in a very bad situation (he shouldn't have been!) and he should have refused to comment on such a loaded question. Ultimately, he could have become part of a large discussion of "Internet Journalists" describing his role as a translator (and learning not to add bias, else you become a writer) and not lost his credibility by reacting very poorly during a bad situation.
The whole debate was BIA's from EG point of view either way, there was no real debate anyway cos Milkis never got a chance to talk
The whole situation was bad from the start, but EG didn't really help themselves with there "display?" (of professionalism)
It was just SooOOO hypocritical, anyway u look at it.
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On July 28 2011 03:24 twoCube wrote:
I do not believe EG did anything wrong throughout the whole process of acquiring PuMa. So that's that. Thanks for clarifying though, Alex.
About Milkis; I don't think the topic of Internet Journalists should have been brought up on the show. Although I understand Alex's frustration and can see how Milkis is an easy target (if I'm not mistaken, Milkis added comments from seperate organizations, but not EG), confronting him on WoC was a poor decision.
First, I believe that AG's frustration is not only with Milkis, but with a lot of "Internet Journalists" that reveal information to the unique forum system that happens with Starcraft II. He would want a Code of Honor, per se. Because of this, he should have approached his frustration through a separate channel (different episode, or write a second article on TL). There is no easy way for Milkis to discuss the topic without ultimately backing out and feeling pounced on.
However, with that said, I do believe Milkis could have reacted in a much less defensive manner and, quite simply, not responded about the topic at all. Although AG genuinely wanted to ask the question in a very broad indirect sense, he unknowingly placed Milkis in front of a firing squad.
Milkis was put in a very bad situation (he shouldn't have been!) and he should have refused to comment on such a loaded question. Ultimately, he could have become part of a large discussion of "Internet Journalists" describing his role as a translator (and learning not to add bias, else you become a writer) and not lost his credibility by reacting very poorly during a bad situation.
Keep in mind, that Milkis was also translating the korean netizen reactions at the time - Like some of the translators always do when there's a tournament or similar event which involves both western and korean interests - Milkis only had the korean side of the story to look at, and was translating what was expressed from Korea - I see nothing wrong with that, not at all. You guys are shooting the messenger here, not the persons expressing these condemnations of EG/Puma.
I feel bad for EG how it happened, but the problem started in Korea, not when Milkis translated it into English..
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On July 27 2011 20:58 PlaGuE_R wrote:
safe to say that Alex is probably not the best person for his job if he also attacked Milkis for translating an article -.-
Did you even watch the show? Alex' tone was far more relaxed than that of Milkis and he approached the subject in a far more calm manner. There was no attack, he even apologized several times encase Milkis took what he was saying the wrong way. In my opinion, judging by the attitudes of both parties and what was said the apologies should have been the other way around.
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On July 28 2011 03:24 I4C wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 03:16 Blasterion wrote:On July 28 2011 03:13 I4C wrote:On July 28 2011 02:50 Railin wrote:On July 27 2011 12:11 DeaTH.1914 wrote:
[EG shouldn't have had to apologize for anything and to anyone saying Milkis deserves an apology, that is laughable. The guy pretty much destroyed the public image of EG's business in one biased post. EG employee?? No other explanation for this laughably biased post. Milkis did not WRITE an article. He merely translated an existing article that he found on the web. He did not invent anything on his own, but merely made accessible a piece of material that anyone could have read via google translate anyway. To accuse the TRANSLATOR of "destroying someone's image" by translating a PUBLICLY AVAILABLE piece of information is beyond ridiculous. He didn't just translate, he also twisted the information to make EG look bad. Then prove it, the PlayXP source is there translate it and show us where he translated incorrectly He already edited the thread he created with the defamatory information. From what i remember he implied in the main topic(this wasn't the translation itself) A: EG signed puma. B: EG are bad for signing puma and not talking with the coach. C: hiding information from public, which later alex had to reveal. He basically hid all the information that favored one side and put all the other one... After he was called out he corrected it, but it would be great to have unbiased translators from now on.
None of this is defamatory (mostly cause Milkis didn't write it, but I digress):
For A: EG declared their intentions to sign PuMa and PuMa accepted. Just because the signature hadn't physically been put to page, they had verbally agreed to sign him.
B: Not defamatory, because EG didn't talk to the coach, first of all. Secondly, saying "EG is bad" can never be a defamatory statement because it's opinion, and opinion is a bulletproof defense against defamation charges.
C: Milkis hid no information. EG took a week to publish their STATEMENT, which gives no evidence more than hearsay. Milkis was not aware of any such information, and SirScoots did not provide him with anyresponse whatsoever when Milkis asked for EG's statement through Twitter. I've seen some complain that Milkis didn't give Scoots/EG enough time to make a statement, but I feel that that argument is a coupout because Milkis could not reasonably hold off on publishing an article until EG came up with a statement (which, coincidentally, took them days to do on their own). Breaking news is published as it happens.
I suggest you look up the legal definition of defamation, because, if anything, Alex is the one who's coming close to doing it to Milkis, not the other way around (e.g. he doesn't fit the definition of journalist since that isn't his job description etc. etc.).
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On July 28 2011 03:34 DeaTH.1914 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 20:58 PlaGuE_R wrote:
safe to say that Alex is probably not the best person for his job if he also attacked Milkis for translating an article -.- Did you even watch the show? Alex' tone was far more relaxed than that of Milkis and he approached the subject in a far more calm manner. There was no attack, he even apologized several times encase Milkis took what he was saying the wrong way. In my opinion, judging by the attitudes of both parties and what was said the apologies should have been the other way around.
Sorry but saying "don't take offense" before attacking someone doesn't make it right.
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Just listened to the last 20 minutes of WoC... Milkis argues horrendously, but he's right. All Milkis is doing when he translates an article is highlighting it and making it accessible. He has no obligations to anyone.
Alex comes across as condescending. He prefaces what he says with "no offense" and "I don't want to be accusatory" but he IS blaming Milkis in part.
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On July 28 2011 03:34 DeaTH.1914 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 20:58 PlaGuE_R wrote:
safe to say that Alex is probably not the best person for his job if he also attacked Milkis for translating an article -.- Did you even watch the show? Alex' tone was far more relaxed than that of Milkis and he approached the subject in a far more calm manner. There was no attack, he even apologized several times encase Milkis took what he was saying the wrong way. In my opinion, judging by the attitudes of both parties and what was said the apologies should have been the other way around.
So if I you translate something about me and I punch you in the face, you should apologize for getting angry at me?
Nice, but keep in mind that Alex is putting on the serious businessman show after he has clearly shown that he wasn't all that serious.
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While I'm glad EG responded. I feel that it was too little, too late.
The delay between TSL's confrontation and then this long post is plenty of time to create a convincing story using rough facts (I'm not accusing you of lying, but if this was all that happened what prevented you from posting it DAYS ago?).
Not to mention I still find it absolutely astounding you would contact a player first (read FIRST) in any situation regarding recruitment.
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On July 28 2011 04:18 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 03:34 DeaTH.1914 wrote:On July 27 2011 20:58 PlaGuE_R wrote:
safe to say that Alex is probably not the best person for his job if he also attacked Milkis for translating an article -.- Did you even watch the show? Alex' tone was far more relaxed than that of Milkis and he approached the subject in a far more calm manner. There was no attack, he even apologized several times encase Milkis took what he was saying the wrong way. In my opinion, judging by the attitudes of both parties and what was said the apologies should have been the other way around. So if I you translate something about me and I punch you in the face, you should apologize for getting angry at me? Nice, but keep in mind that Alex is putting on the serious businessman show after he has clearly shown that he wasn't all that serious.
No, I should apologize for slandering your good name as I did not consider the repercussions for translating that particular article about you. Although you should apologize for your gross over reaction. However no one was actually hit in the face so your example took it a step too far.
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On July 28 2011 05:27 DeaTH.1914 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 04:18 Djzapz wrote:On July 28 2011 03:34 DeaTH.1914 wrote:On July 27 2011 20:58 PlaGuE_R wrote:
safe to say that Alex is probably not the best person for his job if he also attacked Milkis for translating an article -.- Did you even watch the show? Alex' tone was far more relaxed than that of Milkis and he approached the subject in a far more calm manner. There was no attack, he even apologized several times encase Milkis took what he was saying the wrong way. In my opinion, judging by the attitudes of both parties and what was said the apologies should have been the other way around. So if I you translate something about me and I punch you in the face, you should apologize for getting angry at me? Nice, but keep in mind that Alex is putting on the serious businessman show after he has clearly shown that he wasn't all that serious. No, I should apologize for slandering your good name as I did not consider the repercussions for translating that particular article about you. Although you should apologize for your gross over reaction. However no one was actually hit in the face so your example took it a step too far.
IT'S NOT SLANDER TO TRANSLATE AN ARTICLE. Sorry for the caps, but seriously...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
READ
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I hate to be devils advocate here buuuut:
1) you say that you pass on the most (sponsor) money to your players, but I was under the impression that this knowledge (player salary) isn't public and therefore where are these figures coming from (with regards to the other teams). Basically your industry has no transparency.
2) when you trade for a player in another sport, you do so through the team GM, not the player. I am unsure if what you were trying to explain was that he was a free agent? (otherwise, its called 'Tampering').
3) Honestly, this fiasco is all because there is no players association or union and therefore these deals can tend to look shady (and rightly so). Even IF PuMa isn't 'contracted', he is still assuming some benefits of being a korean pro team, and his lack of a contractual agreement could be based on the fact that he isn't old enough to be contracted? I dont know this for sure, but I certainly could imagine this being the case. (where are the parents in this btw?)
4) Lastly, although I am just catching up on this situation it reminds me on Willy Wonka (the original) where
Mr Lee = Willy Wonka,
PuMa = Charlie, and
EG = Mr Slugowrth (trying to get the Everlasting Gobstopper) LOLOLOL
in the end, they are all in cahoots, even if it doesn't first appear to be so. I could just as easily argue that Mr Lee made a fuss in order to get more out of EG for the player transfer.
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On July 28 2011 05:27 DeaTH.1914 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 04:18 Djzapz wrote:On July 28 2011 03:34 DeaTH.1914 wrote:On July 27 2011 20:58 PlaGuE_R wrote:
safe to say that Alex is probably not the best person for his job if he also attacked Milkis for translating an article -.- Did you even watch the show? Alex' tone was far more relaxed than that of Milkis and he approached the subject in a far more calm manner. There was no attack, he even apologized several times encase Milkis took what he was saying the wrong way. In my opinion, judging by the attitudes of both parties and what was said the apologies should have been the other way around. So if I you translate something about me and I punch you in the face, you should apologize for getting angry at me? Nice, but keep in mind that Alex is putting on the serious businessman show after he has clearly shown that he wasn't all that serious. No, I should apologize for slandering your good name as I did not consider the repercussions for translating that particular article about you. Although you should apologize for your gross over reaction. However no one was actually hit in the face so your example took it a step too far.
Translating something is never slander. Don't be ridiculous.
Milkis didn't overreact either. He's one guy who was completely disrespected by the representative of a corporation. He deserves an apology - not a fake one like the OP of this thread.
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EPT
