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On July 24 2011 03:05 vindKtiv wrote:I think this goes all the way back to the contract thing that befuddled the EG/TSL/Puma thing. He wasn't under a contract so pretty much everything he did was legal. Reign should've contracted Phoenix and worked their way out before they started to give Phoenix the benefits and put Phoenix into on the roster. Reign didn't contract Phoenix, Reign got burned. Phoenix got a few good kicks out of his trip with Reign and is now free to pick up the benefits from whatever other team he signs with. Reign should've contracted him in the first place, and in the end I think Reign really doesn't have anybody to blame but themselves. This incident and the EG/TSL/Puma thing really shows that you gotta get more smart about this contract business. TSL should've contracted Puma or else teams like EG gets them. Reign should've contracted Phoenix or else Phoenix is in a position to push around Reign. Yeah the honor and respect system works for some players, but if you aren't willing to go all the way in the business aspect (especially in a business world!) and contract the players you should've contracted then you have no one to blame but yourself. Yeah players like Puma and Phoenix are assholes for doing what they did, but that doesn't change the fact that they had all the right in the eye of the law to do what they did. Again, yes Phoenix was rather unscrupulous in this incident, but the only people the management at Reign can blame is themselves. Show nested quote +So team and player couldn't agree on a deal...so what
Stop trying to create drama where there isn't any - business decision for Reign and personal decision for Phoenix. Good luck to both parties in the future I agree. This is business as usual and players change teams all the time for whatever reasons.
Did you even read the OP at all? Reign and Pheonix negotiated a contract, which Pheonix apparently agreed to, but never signed. Pheonix gained nothing from his short stay in Reign since any monetary gain would have been his small allowance once he was in the US, but that never happened since he didn't sign the contract.
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Saying there's a "budding organization" trying to screw around with the SC2 team scene without naming it is just going to stir up the community and cause unnecessary accusations against numerous teams, which may or may not be responsible.
If you don't wish to name the organization, then just not mentioning their shady dealings is far more preferable. I'd assume that other teams are having their players approached by this organization and have smartly chosen not to reveal the situation since they know it's just unprofessional.
Otherwise, it's a good post that explains things very well. Thanks.
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United States4796 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:08 moltenlead wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 03:01 DivinO wrote:On July 24 2011 02:57 moltenlead wrote:
I think that you would have been better off by simply stating that negotiations fell through. You can't exactly say that he left if he was never actually a part of your team, despite wearing the tag.
If you are going to claim another team is interfering in Phoneix's decision, then I hope you have proof, because that could count against you tbh.
A shame it didn't work out, but guess his needs couldn't match up with yours. That's what Mirhi said and meant. That negotiations fell through. It was desRow who posted that PhoeNix left in the first place. I think that he could have said it without trying to slander Phoneix's name much more than was fair.
I think you make a very good point in saying that PhoeNix should not be slandered in the first place. And I agree with that.
I also believe that desRow's posting left a lot to be desired for the community. I think after desRow's leak the community was left wondering "why did all of this fall through"? I think otherwise (and Spades mentions this) Mirhi would not have been as transparent in his official statement.
But regardless thank you for being civil and not telling me to read the OP.
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Well, it's no big deal, he wanted more than you could offer and the contract was never signed.
Too bad for Reign, gl Phoenix in finding another team.
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United States23455 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:04 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 02:57 FrankWalls wrote:
i'm more curious who this budding organization is that is trying to snipe players from reign and fxo Yeah, such a tease. I understand that it's not relevant to the Phoenix story. But there's no reason to keep it secret!
This.
Pretty much the only interesting thing in the story, sadly. I mean, yeah, it sucks Phoenix couldn't sign a contract, but it's really not that big of an issue. A player and a team just couldn't agree to terms and the deal fell through. I don't blame for Phoenix, a Korean, trying to get the best opportunity in a country that he doesn't know, and I don't blame Reign for not having the funds or being able to accommodate every need that Phoenix wanted.
Hopefully Phoenix finds a Korean team with a foreigner partner like MVP to team up with, and I hope Reign can replace him with another good player for all the money they didn't spend on Phoenix.
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It most probably EG. FXOBoss loudly agreed with TLO on his blog on EG, and it seems Sen was also approached during the NASL finals. No wonder why Milkis also frowned -publicly- upon the PUMA situation. This shows a pattern of aggressive -if not appalling- recruitment methods.
Edit: Sorry, my brain farted and i forgot the name of Fanatic's manager: Xeris...
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On July 24 2011 02:50 Terranist wrote:
so phoenix burns you guys and you do the unprofessional thing by posting the dirt on TL
wts is wrong with you...
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United States4796 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:11 Fionn wrote:
Hopefully Phoenix finds a Korean team with a foreigner partner like MVP to team up with, and I hope Reign can replace him with another good player for all the money they didn't spend on Phoenix.
Guess this is the gist of it, yeah. Also congrats on your recent 3k.
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Why wouldn't you just wait until he actually signed before making the announcement? I mean, I can understand that you just trusted him to sign, but in these cases it just affirms that it's best to wait until everything is sorted about before making a player announcement that could through weeks later because the negotiations weren't completed.
If he's asking for changes to the contract prior to signing it, that means negotiations aren't complete. Particularly when the rest of your team is contracted.
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On July 24 2011 03:07 DivinO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 03:01 Ezze wrote:On July 24 2011 02:54 arbitrageur wrote:On July 24 2011 02:50 Terranist wrote:
so phoenix burns you guys and you do the unprofessional thing by posting the dirt on TL Mods please ban. Why would they ban? Most people would look at this post and infer the exact same thing. I'm one of them. Whatever happened during negotiations doesn't matter. It's unprofessional to come to TL and post all he dirt. Look at how FXO handled their situation with Sheth. That's how you do it. You don't think FXO could've hurt Sheth's image if they wanted to considering what he did to the team? I think giving all the details of the incident was a professional move. Again, Spades stated that the only reason all of this happened was because desRow posted and because of that the community wanted details. I doubt the public would have been happy with a "negotiations fell through" after what was exposed with what desRow said.
Everyone knows desRow is a "great and very respectable" guy, so basing your organisational moves on what he does isn't exactly ideal.
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Stupid of desRow to post anything, considering this whole situation has absolutely nothing to do with him. Can't really blame Reign or Phoenix here.
Very interested about what the 'budding organization' is that's trying to take players from other teams, that's the biggest thing that comes out of this post imo. Very interested to hear more about that.
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On July 24 2011 03:01 Ezze wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 02:54 arbitrageur wrote:On July 24 2011 02:50 Terranist wrote:
so phoenix burns you guys and you do the unprofessional thing by posting the dirt on TL Mods please ban. Why would they ban? Most people would look at this post and infer the exact same thing. I'm one of them. Whatever happened during negotiations doesn't matter. It's unprofessional to come to TL and post all he dirt. Look at how FXO handled their situation with Sheth. That's how you do it. You don't think FXO could've hurt Sheth's image if they wanted to considering what he did to the team?
Can you actually point out what was said about Phoenix to ruin his image? Yes they could have probably just left out some of the details of the negotiations, but they just said what Phoenix wanted from the team to explain why they couldn't accommodate him on the team. When did they actually talk negatively about him?
Seriously, please explain, or just quote the OP. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems like people who are trying to turn this into some drama filled situation aren't actually saying what is so "bad" about it and I am not seeing it.
On July 24 2011 03:04 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 02:57 FrankWalls wrote:
i'm more curious who this budding organization is that is trying to snipe players from reign and fxo Yeah, such a tease. I understand that it's not relevant to the Phoenix story. But there's no reason to keep it secret!
Hah, while I also want to know... we all know that there is plenty reason to keep it a secret. People are already angry over what has been said so far, and mentioning the team trying to snipe players will.... well you know.
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United States4796 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:12 Mordiford wrote:
Why wouldn't you just wait until he actually signed before making the announcement? I mean, I can understand that you just trusted him to sign, but in these cases it just affirms that it's best to wait until everything is sorted about before making a player announcement that could through weeks later because the negotiations weren't completed.
If he's asking for changes to the contract prior to signing it, that means negotiations aren't complete. Particularly when the rest of your team is contracted.
I agree with you, but at the same time I feel like I understand Reign's reasoning behind just announcing PhoeNix as a member. Hype. Excitement. He was one of the first (if not the first Korean player) to bend to a foreign team. Maybe at the time negotiations were going smoothly and it seemed en route. Perhaps it wasn't professional but it definitely riled the community up.
I'm not actively disagreeing, just providing perspective.
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I wonder who the budding organization that they were talking about is... I really wish Mirhi just said:
We have unfortunately not been able to come to terms with our player, Phoenix, and we wish to go our separate ways. Good luck to Phoenix on his future endeavors...
it would save the unavoidable 200 pages to come about some drama that never existed.. The team couldn't support Phoenix, and it wasn't what Phoenix wanted, so he left.. They don't hate each other...I just wish Mirhi didn't make an explanation of the situation as there is a shitstorm that is about to come.
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Ah, sucks that Phoenix pulled out of signing the initial agreement. Oh well, life goes on.  Makes sense that he'd want some changes, given that he was expecting military service soon, but it also makes sense that it wasn't financially feasible for Reign to accommodate those needs.
That's about all there is to it, peeps. No need to play the drama game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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wtf is with all the drama recently.... guys not wanting to sign contracts, 'budding organizations' trying to steal players from other teams...
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On July 24 2011 03:14 DivinO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 03:12 Mordiford wrote:
Why wouldn't you just wait until he actually signed before making the announcement? I mean, I can understand that you just trusted him to sign, but in these cases it just affirms that it's best to wait until everything is sorted about before making a player announcement that could through weeks later because the negotiations weren't completed.
If he's asking for changes to the contract prior to signing it, that means negotiations aren't complete. Particularly when the rest of your team is contracted. I agree with you, but at the same time I feel like I understand Reign's reasoning behind just announcing PhoeNix as a member. Hype. Excitement. He was one of the first (if not the first Korean player) to bend to a foreign team. Maybe at the time negotiations were going smoothly and it seemed en route. Perhaps it wasn't professional but it definitely riled the community up. I'm not actively disagreeing, just providing perspective.
We had a verbal agreement, and Phoenix was very adamant about being announced immediately, so we announced him on good faith
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United States4796 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:13 Ezze wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 03:07 DivinO wrote:On July 24 2011 03:01 Ezze wrote:On July 24 2011 02:54 arbitrageur wrote:On July 24 2011 02:50 Terranist wrote:
so phoenix burns you guys and you do the unprofessional thing by posting the dirt on TL Mods please ban. Why would they ban? Most people would look at this post and infer the exact same thing. I'm one of them. Whatever happened during negotiations doesn't matter. It's unprofessional to come to TL and post all he dirt. Look at how FXO handled their situation with Sheth. That's how you do it. You don't think FXO could've hurt Sheth's image if they wanted to considering what he did to the team? I think giving all the details of the incident was a professional move. Again, Spades stated that the only reason all of this happened was because desRow posted and because of that the community wanted details. I doubt the public would have been happy with a "negotiations fell through" after what was exposed with what desRow said. Everyone knows desRow is a "great and very respectable" guy, so basing your organisational moves on what he does isn't exactly ideal.
I understand the stigma associated with desRow and I understand that basing organizational moves on his actions is generally not good. But I think it was important for Mirhi to clear up misconceptions and be transparent. What desRow posted definitely was unprofessional and I feel that Mirhi felt a professional statement that was honest would fix that. Perhaps that did end up making PhoeNix look like the bad guy but it seems it was a necessary move based on the misconceptions that desRow could have implied in his post.
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On July 24 2011 03:15 DeepBlu2 wrote:
I wonder who the budding organization that they were talking about is... I really wish Mirhi just said:
We have unfortunately not been able to come to terms with our player, Phoenix, and we wish to go our separate ways. Good luck to Phoenix on his future endeavors...
it would save the unavoidable 200 pages to come about some drama that never existed.. The team couldn't support Phoenix, and it wasn't what Phoenix wanted, so he left.. They don't hate each other...I just wish Mirhi didn't make an explanation of the situation as there is a shitstorm that is about to come.
Most likely EG. They have the money to do so and have been known to talk to many other Korean players.
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On July 24 2011 03:14 DivinO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 03:12 Mordiford wrote:
Why wouldn't you just wait until he actually signed before making the announcement? I mean, I can understand that you just trusted him to sign, but in these cases it just affirms that it's best to wait until everything is sorted about before making a player announcement that could through weeks later because the negotiations weren't completed.
If he's asking for changes to the contract prior to signing it, that means negotiations aren't complete. Particularly when the rest of your team is contracted. I agree with you, but at the same time I feel like I understand Reign's reasoning behind just announcing PhoeNix as a member. Hype. Excitement. He was one of the first (if not the first Korean player) to bend to a foreign team. Maybe at the time negotiations were going smoothly and it seemed en route. Perhaps it wasn't professional but it definitely riled the community up. I'm not actively disagreeing, just providing perspective.
Oh, I can absolutely understand why they ended up jumping the gun in announcing Phoenix, but at the end of the day, they still jumped the gun...
Just one of the many lessons we're learning this past week, contracts are important, put your players on a contract, don't announce a player until they've signed a contract, because until it's down on paper, they can quite easily say, "Actually, Team PotofGold is offering me 30% more, peace out bye!".
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EPT
